Cause I couldn't help myself. I was mean to a religous lady at work,and I'm not sorry. Why did you do it?: Cause I couldn't help myself. I was mean to a religous lady at work,and I'm not sorry.

By Czarina on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 11:17 am:

    We are expanding at work,and consequently hiring more staff.

    One of the new nurses I'm training is an older Pentocostal lady.Wears weird clothes,hair up,ect.

    She has been annoying me with her lack of interest in learning her new job duties.

    She told me she wouldn't see the new Harry Potter movie,because of its "demonic" content.

    She has been annoying me just on general purposes.

    She finally crossed that line,and I just couldn't help myself.

    She started talking about the "gays",and how the hospitals were "just infested with em".

    I pointed out that we all needed to be more tolerant of others lifestyle choices.And,that perhaps her views were limited,because that was all she had ever been exposed to.

    That was a mistake on my part,cause then I had to hear about "her God".

    I suggested that had she been born in Tibet,that she probably would have been Buddhist,or if born in India,that she'd probably be Hindu.That we are merely products of whatever given society we resided in,and whatever social morals that given society accepted.

    I pointed out that in ancient Greece and Rome,[considered the forefathers of modern civilization],that homosexuality was quite prominent,and acceptable.So who were we to judge?

    Then I had to hear more about "her God",and how homosexuality was "just weird and unnatural".

    After listening to her rant for awhile,I just couldn't take it any more.

    So,finally I said:

    "You want to know whats weird and unnatural? I'll tell ya! The first time I ever saw you Pentecostals in action! The scariest damn thing I ever saw! You people need to learn how to behave yourselves in church,how to sit still and be quiet and pay attention,instead of jumping around like a pack of wild monkeys,and babbleing in tongues.Closest thing I ever saw to demon possesion.I wanted to get up and bitch slap your cohorts back into reality.Bunch of damn fools making public asses of themselves.I can see why you have to close the church doors,before you can start your service,because if the bulk of society saw what goes on in there,they'd be hauling you off to our hospital,and sedating you for your psychotic behaviors!Acting out like that is just plain weird and unnatural.You people aren't right."

    I upset her so much,that she knocked her cup of coffe over and made a big mess on the desk.She told me:

    "We need to end this conversation,because you are upsetting me."

    Then I went and had a soothing saucer of milk,and sharpened my nails.

    It was a productive night.

By patrick on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 11:31 am:

    good for you...she needed to hear that. i get irate when i hear crazy talk like that.

By eri on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 12:07 pm:

    My mother in law is a Pentacostal. She and I have never gotten along. They literally abused Trace growing up, all in the name of the "Lord". She may be upset, but I don't think you did anything wrong. I have a low tolerance for all of that crap, especially in a work place. My opinion is if you don't like gays so much you have to talk about them negatively at work, well then you are obviously working in the wrong place. Maybe she would be better suited working at her church office. Believe what you want to believe, but leave it at home or church. Work is no place for religion, in the form of judging others.

    My mother in law decided to come clean my house when I was in the hospital, because she thought that after giving birth to a one pound baby I didn't need to come home to a dirty house. She trashed the house, redecorated, and left a nasty note about the sponges I use to do dishes with and how my T-Fal collection of pots and pans was going to give us all food poisoning and kill us all. Gave a bible quote as to why it was within her rights to throw away all of my pots and pans and dishes and tupperware and cleaning supplies. Called me a spoiled child throwing a hissy fit because I was upset by it. Funny thing was the quote had absolutely nothing to do with pots or pans or sponges. It was about not letting a loved one choose to kill themselves. It was about stopping someone from committing suicide.

    Anyways, my point was, don't feel guilty if you express an intolerance of her religious views. There is nothing wrong with it. Don't be afraid to tell her when her views are not appreciated or necessary. There are definately environments where it is inappropriate to say these things and at work in a hospital is definately one of them.

By Dougie on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 12:12 pm:

    How come old Spunky never posts anymore?

By agatha on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 12:41 pm:

    aren't oswald's bio-parents pentacostals?

By Oswald Jr. on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 01:40 pm:

    I AM Pentecostal! And yeah my parents are Pentecostal and yeah we dress funny for Jesus and we are not all a bunch of freaks and idiots thank you. I dont' apolgise for my faith. But Czarina I know what your saying and, its cool and also cool that you help take up for us queers cause we need all the help we can get these days.

By patrick on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 01:43 pm:

    why are you a part of a faith that doesnt approve of you Oswald?

By Oswald Jr. on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 01:46 pm:

    This part bugs me tho.
    "I wanted to get up and bitch slap your cohorts back into reality.Bunch of damn fools making public asses of themselves.I can see why you have to close the church doors,before you can start your service,because if the bulk of society saw what goes on in there,they'd be hauling you off to our hospital,and sedating you for your psychotic behaviors!Acting out like that is just plain weird and unnatural.You people aren't right."
    We worship God as we feel the Bible say and it IS right, very right theres not a damn thing wrong with our worship and we speak in tongues and make joyfull noise like God tell us to. So yes this does kinda piss me off but I still love you Czarina.

By Oswald Jr. on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 01:53 pm:

    Patrick it tears me up and I know what you are geting at. It is true they do not approve but I think Pentecostal is the best way to go for the worship tho I switch churchs when they find me out.I am not hard to spot as gay. I can still have my faith if I never go to church ever again I can be Pentecostal with out the church but it is hard cause it is like a group thing and they got the best music of any religion just look at what it did for Elvis!

By Czarina on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 02:16 pm:

    Well,now you have a point there,Oswald.We all know that Elvis was a well adapted,no hidden mother worshipping type of guy.So perhaps your religion does have its good points.

    But,I have to agree with Patrick here.Why would you want to endorse a religion that forbids you?

    If you are the forbidden fruit.............?

    Church swithcing seems kinda radical.Couldn't you just find yourself a God that accepts you?

By Oswald Jr. on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 02:35 pm:

    Hey I gotta bring up Elvis cause he is the most famous Pentecostal guy in the whole world. Its real hard to go against what your raised with and I am afraid of going to hell but thats not all. I feel there is real and good things in the church but they are wrong about the gay thing but in othar points they can be good like the jumping and claping hands and shouting if you are just going to sit there in church like a rock why even go to church at all. You get the spirit and you will nevar turn back but I do have troubel with it all. Old Pentecostal ladys can be cool they feed you and make a fuss over you and I like the way some Pentecostal chix look I respeact them for the way they dress it takes nerve. I know some girls that wear the head coverings too and I think it is cool tho most of them do not go that far. It is hard to buck what your folks bring you up in some times. Like I got this friend raised Cathlic but turned Pagan but she still make the sign of the cross when she is afraid. Part of me will always think it is best to jump and shout in service than to sit there all bored like.

By patrick on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 02:40 pm:

    but there's more to faith than just how its presented right?

    ultimately i could careless who or what you worship, muchless how.

By Oswald Jr. on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 02:57 pm:

    Thank you for not careing. Sure theres more to faith than that but it is a human thing to like one thing over another it is a matter of what I feel most comftorbale with and maybe thats why there is so many religions in the world each person can do what they feel best with. I think theres some thing very holy about the way the Pentecostals worship and if you feel the fire in the services you will be moved. Tho some folks who are'nt used to us get afraid at all the noise and they have fear cause they do not understand. Anyway theres about a milion kinds of Pentecostals and they can be very difreant you can not judge all by the way a few people act.

By droop on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 03:03 pm:

    i remember hearing a radio interview with sarah vowell(sp?), once (i think it was on fresh air) where she talked about the influence on religion in her life. if i remember correctly she grew up in oklahama then moved with her family to montana. anyway, the church she went to in oklahama was pecan-belt fire and brimstone. maybe even pentecostal. she said learned a few things from the drama and histrionics of the sermons. knowing how to make get people's attention is handy as a writer.

By droop on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 03:04 pm:

    and remember oswald, you're the lord's jaw.

By Czarina on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 03:19 pm:

    Actually,I am in total agreement with you,Oswald.

    I respect anyone who is sincere in their religion.

    Although,I personally don't believe in a God,I do respect those that can actually live what they preach.I think that is a very hard thing to do.But I have met a few people,who seem to have been able to accomplish this.

    Generally speaking,I am rather glad that most people endorse religion.I think it keeps them straight.Because they are afraid of going to hell.Otherwise,they'd be out robbing and killing,and being generally offensive to put up with.

    I endorse no god,so I am certainly not in fear of his wrath,but,I know in my heart that it is wrong to do harmful things to others.But I think it is my parents that instilled this concept in me,not some "god".

    But,I'm definately glad others live in fear of their God.It keeps em in line.

    But,I do have to admit that I find the somewhat strenous activities involved in the Pentecostal faith somewhat alarming.But,I think this is mainly a cultural thing.I was raised Catholic,and we sat still during church.No snake handeling,no poison consumption.Just sat there and listened.

    So,it all goes back to what we are familiar with.

    But,I do hope you can find a god that you won't have to hide your homosexuality from.I think that would be a good thing :)

By The Watcher on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 04:24 pm:

    Weren't Jim and Tami Fay Baker Pentecostal?

    I seem to recall he was supposedley speeking in tongues when he went of his rocker.

    And, Oswald...Please stay away from the poison and the snakes.

By Oswald Jr. on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 04:42 pm:

    Most Pentecostals dont handle snakes or drink poison that is a real small group that does. Just a few. It is mostly a myth people keep spread around. The P.T.L. guys was Pentecostal I think but not like the church I come from. But theres so many difrant kinds of church to go to. Just like there are tons of difrent Baptists around. Theres Oneness Pentecostals and they think you will go to hell for geting baptize wrong and theres a few churchs that make the women wear head covers I am not from those groups. Theres Full Gospel and Asembly Of God and Pilar Of Fire and the Church Of God in Christ and tons more I some times go to Church Of God Of Prophecy. It bugs me when folks cut down Pentecostals with out knowing what they are about cause we are easy to pick on we dress funny and worship diffrent and are mostly poor folks and its often people with $$ that makes fun of us so terible. But I know why people laugh at us there is plenty to make fun of.

By The Watcher on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 04:57 pm:

    I do know there is at least one church still practicing snake handling and poison drinking.

    I saw the story on PBS, I think, they followed the Minister around as he collected his snakes for the services.

    At least he released them in the same area after he was done with them. I think he said he only kept them a month or two before releasing them.

By Oswald Jr. on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 05:05 pm:

    Oh yeah there is more than one church that does it. Some use snakes some use poison and some use welding toarches. I am just saying its not real common.

By patrick on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 05:08 pm:

    welding torches?

    oh be in hysterics. id love to attend such a service, all the jubilation would hopefully drown my laughter.

By The Watcher on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 05:14 pm:

    As my grandmother used to say "I think it's time for the fool killer to come around".

By Dougie on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 05:14 pm:

    I thought Robert Duvall's The Apostle was a great movie, even though I didn't really "enjoy" the movie per se because of its subject matter.

By crimson on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 05:25 pm:

    the apostle was, indeed, a cool movie.

    i've seen snake handling. it's very rare. it was in an extreme boondock church that i am quick to point out i was NOT a member of. i skipped the strychnine-swallowing & welding torch acts, though.

    they use the torches on their feet and hands to prove that they won't get burned.

    as you may guess, i, too, have spent one day too many in pentecostal church services.

    it's kind of a weird issue for oswald & pilate. pilate's a bit sensitive about the kid belonging to a religion that people enjoy poking fun at. he's kind of protective of ozzie & doesn't take kindly to people giving the boy hell about the whole thing. people ARE a bit too fast to make fun of holy rollers. it hasn't changed much since i was one of those weird looking chicks in the funny dresses.

By Dougie on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 05:42 pm:

    At this point in my life, I choose not to worship en masse. I still believe in a higher power (something had to have created all this splendor and horror.) And I still pray to this higher power for peace and understanding. Someday, maybe I'll rejoin my church (Methodist, yecchh). But not now.

By patrick on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 05:45 pm:

    no more faster to poke at the pentacostal faith, than say...Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholicism and all its stereotypes as well as Mormons.

    who gives the boy hell for being a part of such a faith?

By Czarina on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 05:49 pm:

    I studied snake handlers and poison consumers in anthropology.And there actually are quite a few sects still around.

    Just recently,the courts stepped in and took some children from their snake handling parents.Well,actually,there was just one surviving parent at the time of the courts intervention.Mom had already "bought the farm",so to speak.I think maybe its not such a good idea to handle venomous reptiles,if one isn't appropriatly devout.I guess theres kinda a thin line,here.

    Implementing the welding torch must be fairly recent,or rather secret,as I've never heard of it.But i'd sure like to attend one of their services.I like that.

    But my question is this:Where exactly in the bible does God tell someone to take a welding torch to their appendages?

By crimson on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 05:55 pm:

    well...actually, i'm guilty as charged, for poking fun at the JWs. truthfully, i don't have a real problem w/ the JWs, except that they really like coming to my door at the worst possible times. i'm cool w/ their religion, just not w/ the heavy-duty proselytizing. oswald's own friends bug him about the whole pentecostal thing sometimes & he apparently was bullied at school very badly over it. things are better for him now. pilate isn't wild about the pentecostal faith (he thinks it's potentially dangerous) but he wants to be as supportive as humanly possible. i have a lasting weakness for's a very strange & wonderful religion, but also prone to many well-documented excesses. and they DO have cool music. i've played electric guitar in many a holy roller service.

By Czarina on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 05:59 pm:

    Oh,and let me just say this:

    I actually have nothing against the Pentecostals.I find all religions rather humorous.
    I sit around sometimes thinking about the different policies/practises religions incorporate,and just get the giggles,picturing "God" handing down the rules.

    A puff of blue smoke for when a new Pope takes over is one of my favorites.

    I just picture God trying to decide:

    "Green.No,no,thats not good."
    "Alright,pink then.No,no,too feminine."
    "Black.That'd be good.Naw,too blaise."
    "Purple.No,no,the royal robes are already that color."
    "Yellow then.No can do,yellow smoke won't show up."

    Heh heh,I can't help it,this just strikes me as funny.

By crimson on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 05:59 pm:

    "They shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them..." Mark 16:18

    i suppose that, although not mentioned specifically, a welding torch just kinda falls in w/ these dangerous & deadly items, by some sort of logical leap...a leap i've never personally cared to make.

By Czarina on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 06:07 pm:

    Why yes,how lax of me not to have made the association!I see it clearly now.

    And you're right about the music.There is some traveling troup,that comes here,and when they do,we go.I actually bought one of their CD's.

    And,let me say that I've never actually bitch slapped anyone in church,I've just thought about it.

By patrick on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 06:25 pm:

    whenever i hear the young Oswald rant about his gospel i think of

    The Gospel Yeah Yeah

    oswald if you've never heard them, check em out...their shows have a revival characteristic to them...and after all, frontman Ian Z. WAS voted "Sassiest Man" in the early 90s by Sassy Magazine when he was in Nation of Ulysses.

By patrick on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 06:29 pm:

    and of course the nation of ulysses

    i love this bit, especially the last line....

    "Wreck society through direct action by destroying its institutions and the men who serve it, and by relying on the people's forces to spread the doctrines of "P-Power" and "Ragnarok." To consolidate the New Nation, while never forgetting the need for constant purging, "as the nation shall resemble a self-cleaning oven."

By agatha on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 03:03 am:

    damn. i didn't mean to do that.

    oswald, i didn't mean to point you out like that. i was just remembering how cruel and horrible your bio-rents were to you, and then i recalled that they were pentacostal. that's all.

By Oswald Jr. on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 10:38 am:

    Its cool Agatha. My parents were real mean and they are Pentecostal but they stop going to church very much it is mostly us kids that kept going they send us out on the church bus or people would come to pick us up at the trailor park and the folx can get a break from all us kids by sending us away to the church. They do not care which church we go to as long as its Pentecostal but I got a sis who turn 7 Day Adventast she is marryed now and the folx are still mad about her religion and my little bro is Baptist. My half sister is in some Church I don't know how to spell. All this talk here has made me think about religion and stuff. I had a long talk with my boyfriend on the phone about it and it was cool hes in the Episcopal Church and want me to join that but now he kinda knows where I am comeing from. I took the lords supper at the Episcopal Church and they let any body do it and they use real wine too. Its a nice day today and on my way here we pass thru real tiny towns and they got the Xmas stuff up and its kinda neat to see the Xmas lites in tiny towns the lites are old and wore out but they do the best they can and the little kids dont know it isnt' fancy.

By Spider on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 11:10 am:

    Oswald, can you describe a typical Pentecostal church service, or the last one you went to if they're always different? Also, how long do they usually last?

    What do Pentecostal women's dresses look like?

By Oswald Jr. on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 11:36 am:

    I will try. I will tell Crimson to describe it when she get here cause she can write it way beter than me. The dresses go past the knee and they can be what ever color you want but, it is difrant from group to group many girls can not wear jewellry or shiny things you must not be worldly in your looks. You wear the dress with sneakers not high heels and some dresses gotta have real high neck line and long sleaves you can not show arms or cleeavage. You nevar cut your hair ever but you can put it in a bun or bee hive if you want to. A lot of them cant wear make up but some of the ones that do wear too much like Tammy Faye and some carry a Bible at all times. A few (not many) wear head covers like you get at I gotta get some soda pop now but when I get back I will talk about the service.

By Oswald Jr. on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 12:22 pm:

    Service last about 2 hours but it is up to how good the spirit is moveing they will not cut off if the spirit is good but if it is not so good you can get out early. Some churches do not bealive in Sunday School but most do so, you get the Sunday School first off and then its time for the service. Which starts with music. There is tons of music and you get electric guitar bass and drums and organ and piano. Lots of old geazers who can realy jam on guitar. And the music get every thing started up right. As you get moved by music then you can feel the spirit start up and you clap hands or dance around or raise your hands lots of hand raising. You can dance and spin round the pew and if you can not stay in your pew then you can get in the isle if you need to roll or fall down or run and the music gets faster. If a person speaks in tongues then the music stops and every body listen hard cause one person is gonna have to interpreat it. Tongues is angel language that man ca'nt speak but thru the Holy Spirit taking you over. The spirit makes one person under stand it and they translate it and it is like words right from Gods own mouth. After music comes the sermon and some times the organ keep on playing thru that too as preacher get more into it. We can have man or woman preachers or even kid preachers and the preacher gets you wound up and there mite be more tongues. Signs and wonders like old folks running or folks geting healed. You can get healed at services if the preacher has that gift. Most Pentecostals can see doctors it is not against religion but a few do not trust them and only go to the preacher. Then you get call for salvation and go to the alter if you feel like it and folks will lay hands on you and deliver you from Satan. They can put oil on your head and lay hands on you and maybe then you speak in tongues or have some other sign. Lots of folks cry or shout in services. You can scream your head off and jerk around in the floor whatever God tells you to do you must do it. If you get saved you get baptise in the river later but not right away. When things get all calm again then it is over, you can go home or some times stay there and have pot luck at the fellowship hall.

By Spider on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 01:32 pm:

    Wow. That's scary fun right there.

    Charismatic Catholic Masses also have speaking in tongues, interpretation of tongues, prophecy, healing, getting slain by the Spirit, etc., but it's much more sedate. I'd like to visit a Pentecostal service some time, if I could.

By Oswald Jr. on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 02:08 pm:

    You should try it no joke. Most are real nice and like visitors and you can even say to them that you never been to a Pentecostal service and would just like to see what it is all about and they will be cool. Asembly Of God is the mildest you may not see much shouting there but they probly still got good music. Oneness Pentecostals dont bealieve in the trinity they are also call United Pentecostals a lot of folks say they are a cult. The more you go out into the hills the beter. A country church beats a city church.Look for small churchs not the real big ones. But if you ever hit one where they act weird about visitors then run they mite be up to no good.

By The Watcher on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 06:11 pm:

    I remember a story a Parasycology Professor once told me about a spiritualist sevice he once attended.

    "It was a healling service and the preacher placed his hand upon this woman and she fell flat on the floor. He just leaned over her and said "Madem we don't do that here.""

By crimson on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 07:15 pm:

    watcher, that's a cute story. also, i'm still getting a laugh out of your "fool killer" remark, above.

    i don't think there's too much i can add to oswald's description of the's pretty much right on. so's the description of the dresses. the sneakers are an odd touch, but very typical. almost every pentecostal chick i know wears salvation army or homemade dresses w/ flat canvas sneakers, the kind you get at the dollar store. some of them wear jewelry; the ones who don't are usually also forbidden to wear fur, feathers, jewelry, shiny hair accessories or any other kind of ornamentation. i used to know some chicks who wore little gold crosses but painted them over w/ black nail polish so they wouldn't shine & therefore be sinful. we called them the "black cross girls". that's not common, though. the really hardcore churches have a "no jesting" rule. there is to be no joking, jesting, slang or foolish speech because it wastes the breath that god gave you. your breath is to be used for worshipping god. no phrase should be uttered that isn't directly a yes/no answer or question necessary to one's personal business or survival, & joking is totally out of the question. fortunately, many of the hardcore churches have dropped this policy...but they're still out there.

By eri on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 07:46 pm:

    To show that Pentacostal churches can be different, here goes (at least on the wardrobe parts).

    My mother in law is not very materialistic by my views, but considering how she grew up she is a millionaire. She does wear a normal amount of make-up (meaning she is not over done). She wears jewelry though it is conservative. She loves to get false fingernails and paint them wild colors like metallic blue or bright pink. She makes a lot of clothes but they are for her mother. She does wear long dresses, but they are definately not Salvation Army, nor is anything else in her wardrobe. She looks just like anyone else on the streets and you would never know she was any faith at all until she decides you are doing something that doesn't agree with her way of thinking. Then you hear all about her "God" and her religion. I, of course, am damned to hell because of the fact that I am a Southern Baptist. Also because I insist on only attending churches that teach what the bible says without telling you what to do and accepts the individual whether they drink or cuss or whatever without judging them. That is just horrible in her eyes. The only thing she has ever complemented me on is the fact that my youngest daughter has a name with religious connotation. (Mikayla Grace). Of course, when you have a 1 lb. baby that survives, the name Grace only seems natural. Anyways, my point was there is definately different types in every denomination of religion.

By crimson on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 07:56 pm:

    you've got a point. i've known some pentecostal women who don't dress in the way that i described above...but the vast majority do, at least in my personal experience. also, it may be a regional thing. i find it vaguely amusing that there are so many restrictions on women's clothing & appearance as opposed to men's.

By R.C. on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 01:50 am:

    Speaking of Speaking in Tongues:

    Half the people who do that mess in church are faking it. Anyone can talk gibberish & pretend to be speaking in tongues.

    The Bible says prophseying is more important than talking in tongues -- but you never see prophesying in those holy roller churches. Why not? Becuz to prophesy means to predict some specific future event/inc. the timeframe in which it will happen. And it's far to easy for someone to call you out as a phony when the thing you prophesied doesn't come to pass.

    Here's what the Bible says about speaking in tongues:

    "Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. BUT IF THERE IS NO INTERPRETER LET HIM KEEP SILENT IN CHURCH and let him speak to himself and to God.

    Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints."

    - 1 Corinthians 14: 26-33

    Couldn't be any more explicit, could it? Let 2 or 3 people - at most - speak in tongues. Each in turn/not all at once. It's not supposed to be a bunch of folks babbling over each other's words/the way is it in most churches. And the Bible clearly states that if someone speaks in tongues/someone else present must interpret it. When's the last time you saw *that* happen in church?

    WHY is it that so many who claim to be 'sold out to Jesus'/who are so proud of holding fast to their bigotry & hatred of others in God's name/can't even manage to read & follow God's simplest, most direct instructions in His holy word?

    The act of speaking in toungues serves a dual purpose: it is a sign to those who don't believe in God/to show them God's power in action. And it is for the edification of the church/becuz God reveals messages the believers through tongues.

    But someone has to translate the tongues/ otherwise the message is never received. Without the translation/it's just bunch of hollerin' & carrying on.

    If I had a dollar for every time I've seen these holy roller types jump up & start speaking in tongues/while everyone else cheers them on/yet Nobody Stands Up to Translate What Was Said/I'd be rich as Oprah!.

    I'm a Christian too, Oswald. But if you do a little research/you will find out that most of the antics that go on in so-called charismatic churches (falling out/trembling/jumping & shouting) bear an awfully strong resemblence to the behaviors exhibited in pagan ceremonies of religions like Voudun/Santeria/Candomble. When they dragged us out of Africa in chains/they weren't able to eradicate our traditional African comsmolgy/beliefs & practices. And when the Africans sales became Christianized/we mixed our traditional African practices with the whitefolks Chirstianity/& the salveowners started seeing Blacks falling out & jumping around & 'getting the Holy Ghost' in Black church services. Eventually/they started imitating it/until it spread into the religious mainstream.

    Pentecostals like to call people who practice Santeria or Voudun 'demon-worshippers'. (I wd tend to agree w/that based on my research into African religions. Calling a demon a loa or an orisha doesn't make it any less demonic.) But how do you explain Pentecostals behaving in precisely the same manner as the so-called heathens?

    Do your research, Oswald! The fact that you grew up w/certain traditions & practices doesn't make them 'right' or 'correct' if they don't align w/what the Bible says.

    And don't *even* get me started on Christmas...

By crimson on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 02:32 am:

    i'll let ozzie address all this in the morning. but i can say that i've pointed out for YEARS the similarities between voudoun & pentecostalism...& oswald agrees. he, like many people around here, aren't exactly unfamiliar w/ southern-style hoodoo (which isn't voudoun, but it's not exactly high church, either). i grew up practicing the stuff, pug's familiar w/ it & so is oswald. seems like every other holy roller kid i knew carried a mojo. and being ridden by the loa, or getting the spirit in church is kinda similar, no? anyway, oswald's probably the last kid on earth who's going to tell someone they're going to hell for their beliefs. despite his ongoing defense of pentecostalism, he can be fairly spiritually eclectic & open minded. problem is, the more people challenge his chosen faith, the more he's gonna knock himself out defending it. which is either pointless or admirable, i'm not sure which. he'll figure it all out when he hits adulthood...or not.

By crimson on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 02:36 am:

    BTW, what churches are you attending where no one's translating the tongues? just curious. in the churches i've gone to, they're always translated. i mean, if they're not translated, then the whole point is blown, right? you get one tongues-speaker, one interpreter. period. it's not like a whole shitload of people are doing it all at once. or at least that's the way i've seen it go down about a godzillion times.

By Czarina on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 02:39 am:

    I,too,also adore Watchers grandmothers saying.This will be incorporated into my everyday interpretation of life.

    I have already used it several times.[I think we might need more than one "fool killer" here in the south,though]

    When I went to a Pentescotal service,they had a man,who hopped over the pews,all the way to the front of the church,then he went to the otherside,and hopped over them all the way to the back of the church.

    I grabbed my children.

By crimson on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 02:45 am:

    oh, m'gawd, yeah...the pew-hoppers. i've seen that. it's trippy. you'll get some geriatric granddad hopping pews like hurdles. it's outrageous. i saw an old guy hop the pews & then go running around the outside of the church like his ass was on fire, while screaming something about the end times. impressive.

By Czarina on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 09:16 am:

    Fuck everything.

    She is not a nice church lady.

    She is evil incarnate.

    She comes and pesters me while I was in the bathroom.[admittedly I was in there a long time.I was primping]

    Anyway,she says to me,"Alright animal lady,tell me what to do to keep dogs from tearing open my garbage."

    I asked for the particulars,and she said she didn't know whose dogs they were,but that she'd seen one,and it looked like it had just had pups.

    I mentioned that the poor thing was just trying to eat.She bitched awhile,so I suggested sprinkling red pepper on her trash bags.

    She said she'd already tried that,and it didn't work.She said a friend had told her "to soak some weenies in anti-freeze,and let the dogs eat them."
    She had an evil gleem in her eyes when she told me this.

    I was aghast.I said that it was illegal to poison animals,and that it was extremely cruel,and besides,they were just trying to eat.

    She said it wasn't as cruel as her having to pick up scattered trash.

    I suggested several alternative methods,like trying to figure out whose dogs they were,or calling animal control.

    Fucking PSYCHO BITCH.I can't stand her.This has nothing to do with her religion.She's just evil.
    She's had several husbands,I might just ask her if she poisoned any of them.

    I am not going to be able to work with her.

By Pug on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 09:59 am:

    Czarina, personally, I think you made the right call dissing this lady---she sounds like the scum of the earth.
    No offense, Brendan---yeah. The pentecostals churn out good music. I just maintain that when someone is an asshole, anything in their life(especially if a religious belief or misconception assists in MAKING them an asshole) then it's all fair game.
    My Mom used to go to Charismatic Masses back in the '70's....she told me a story regarding one she went to where her friend blacked out and may have suffered a minor heart attack---My Mom's a Baptist, now, tho--and I think she may frown on that whole trip as a Satanic Conspiracy (I think of that as the standard Baptist riff---everything's a Satanic Conspiracy).
    Robert Tilton, the TV Preacher, is big on talking in tongues---his eyes glaze over and he goes, "bleh-bleh-bleh!" Basically babytalk,
    Zappa wrote about him, I think....

By Oswald Jr. on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 10:16 am:

    Sounds like this lady is giveing us all a bad name. I bet shes a real bitch. But you know I am not the worlds greatest spokesman for religion myself I wear skirts and sin all the time and some people would just not get it. I think Jesus loves me even tho I am a fuck up. Most all my sins come from being queer and its not like I'm a baby raper or serial killer. and I am always kind to animals I want a weeny dog and I would take good care of it as I do with all my animals. Oh yeah and the voodoo stuff that got said above I can roll with its o.k. really. I do not have a prob with that. But I still beleave in talking in tongues.

By droop on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 10:31 am:

    i have a relative who can speak in tongues. she did it at a party, once. it was cool.

    aside from czarina's co-worker, pentecostal sounds more fun everytime i read this board.

    good music, seat-hopping, running, screaming, jabbering, snakes, fire....

    sounds like a good rock concert.

By Dougie on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 10:33 am:

    Eww, that Tilton guy is so creepy and smarmy.

    I caught the tail end of Cape Fear a couple of weeks ago. De Niro did a great job speaking in tongues as he was about to drown.

By J on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 10:41 am:

    Well I think I mentioned the one I went to where they all laid hands on this poor boy with downs syndrome every Sunday,he was terrified every time,seemed like they were torturing him to me,it really put me off,that and the Rev.Bell lugging her dead dads body all around the state while she kept receiving his social security checks.No good times for me.

By droopy on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 10:47 am:

    i loved tilton. and that other guy - a guy with a beard, looked like a stern colonel sanders, who'd sit in the middle of a stage with a huge blackboard behind that he'd mark on during the course of the show until it looked like a jackson pollock in chalk and then say "if you can't understand this, then you're just a fool."

By Spider on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 11:01 am:

    Robert Tilton
    Hear my prayer
    I set myself on fire
    Burned off all my hair
    I'm just a stupid fuck
    But you're a man of God
    Robert Tilton,
    I need a handjob

    Robert Tilton
    Hear my plea
    I sent you all my money
    Something's wrong with me
    [Spider can't remember the rest]

    -- Cop Shoot Cop

By Czarina on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 11:52 am:

    I loved to watch Robert Tilton.You could just FEEL the holiness rolling off of him.

    "Send me $1000.00,so you can be saved.If you don't have the money,go out and pick up cans off the side of the road.Gods waiting for your donation,he wants to help you,now!"

    Have any of you seen the edited Robert Tilton tape,where he comes running out,but he's farting all the way?

    It was hilarious.I almost wanted to send him a donation.

    Didn't he get busted? If not,is he still on?I would love to watch him.

By Oswald Jr. on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 11:58 am:

    I love the Pastor Gas tape with Robert Tilton it is so damn funny. I dont know if he is still on T.V. but that tape gets played round here a lot.

By Spider on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 12:38 pm:

    I remembered the rest:

    Robert Tilton
    Hear my plea
    I sent you all my money
    Something's wrong with me
    When you speak in tongues
    Think I can understand
    Forget those big eyebrows
    I need the healin' hand

    I temped for the company who made that Robert Tilton "Pastor Gas" tape. They make infomercials, officially.

By droopy on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 01:33 pm:

By The Watcher on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 03:21 pm:


    She must be Satan's daughter.

    Sprinkle her with holy water and see if she starts to smolder or melt. These are deffinative signs.

By eri on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 04:55 pm:

    Does the temperature drop whe she walks into a room? That is a sign of demonic posession. Then again, maybe she is just a witch. Poison someone's pet, what a freak. I have a feeling, though, if she talks to others or possibly her superiors like she does to you, that she won't last long.

By The Watcher on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 05:31 pm:


    She can not be a witch. I have known witches. And, none of them would ever concider such a thing.

    Witchcraft has nothing to do with Satan.

    Witchcraft is a religion based upon the forces of nature. A true witch could not contract with the devil - they don't believe in him.

    They also believe anything they do comes back to them three times more/stronger than what they did. So to poison/hurt anything would cause the witch themselves to suffer even more.

By crimson on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 05:43 pm:

    watcher, i think you're taking her too literally here. she's probably just saying "witch" in the way that polite women do when they actually want to say "bitch". don't people refer to women as "witches" where you're at?

    also, just for the record, the vast majority of satanists are also horrified by animal sacrifice and/or cruelty.

By eri on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 08:02 pm:

    I was meaning witch in the figurative term. I have several family members who are Wiccans and have studied Paganism. I understand what you are saying, but that wasn't what I meant.

By R.C. on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 12:19 am:

    I haven't been to church in at least a deacde (excluding weddings & funerals). But growing up/the Baptist & AME & Pentecostal churches I went to as a kid & in my early 20's/in Brooklyn, L.I. & Boston/had plenty of folks falling out & speaking intongues -- but never anyone translating. And if you attended on a regular basis & didn't start talking in tongues at some point/folks wd begin to question whether or not you were "really saved". It wasn't until 5 or 6 yrs. ago that I realized that's not the way it's supposed to be.

    For someone to claim to be a Christian & behave the way this witch behaved towards Czarina is deeply disappointing.

    Folks like that turn so many people away from God before they get a chance to explore faith & make up their minds on their own...

By droopy on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 01:13 am:

    there's a show that's been running late at night on my pbs station called "roots music." part of tonight's episode was about gospel music and the influence of the pentecostal church on people like mahalia jackson, rosetta tharpe, the staple singers, aretha franklin, etc.

    i definitely have to find some rosetta tharpe - signifyin' gospel AND a killer electric guitar player.

By crimson on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 02:32 am:

    i hear ya, droop...sister rosetta ROCKS.

    R.C., i know what you're saying about people questioning your salvation if you don't speak in tongues. i was hired to play piano for this pentecostal church...but when they realized that i wasn't going to be down in front of the altar speaking in tongues every single sunday, they decided that i not only needed to be saved, but also needed to get the devil driven out of me. so they laid hands on me & tried to cast out the Great Horned One, but i get the feeling he's probably still lurking around in there somewhere.

By droopy on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 03:08 am:

    all that gospel and blues i was listening to tonight inspired me to dig up my old harmonica. i never play it 'cause it's in the key of G, which is the lowest (or one of the lowest) harp keys and harder to play. i pick it up anyway and blow a few riffs, then some shuffle rhythms, and then just start improvising. it's 2:05 am now.

    i had noticed my lower lip had started to sting, but i didn't think much about it. when i decided to put the harp away, i looked at my lip in the mirror.

    i've got a blues blister.

    the left side of my lower lip is swollen. sort of tubular and watery, like there was a big red caterpillar resting on my lip.

By The Watcher on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 04:27 pm:


    Sorry. I took it to litteraly.

    Iv'e just had it up to here with the "Christian" know it alls. They assume that Pagans are Satanic. Or, any other Religion is Satanic.

    They are the Christian equivalent to the radical islamists. Although, they currently haven't gone on any killing sprees. I wouldn't put it passed them.

    I find their rightous ignorance appalling.

    And, their moral superiority repugnant.

By eri on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 07:15 pm:

    I am a Christian, but that is by choice and not because of lack of information. I don't disagree with my relatives who are of different faiths, and frankly we can all hold theological converstions well. Christianity is man made and many of these alternatives go back much farther. I do understand what you mean about the radicals who believe that everything other than their faith is Satanic. Our bible study instructor is like that and I have had more than a few words with our Pastor about him. It drives me crazy. I feel like telling him "You go to seminary school and you are still so stupid. Must be nice." That of course would be unbelievably rude of me and I don't do it, I just think it. I am not the only one in the class who has stated this problem to our Pastor and we will have a new bible study teacher within a month.

By The Watcher on Wednesday, December 26, 2001 - 05:02 pm:


By J on Wednesday, January 2, 2002 - 01:02 am:


By patrick on Wednesday, January 2, 2002 - 12:48 pm:

    do you have any idea how much of this thread i scrolled through?

By wisper on Wednesday, January 2, 2002 - 03:45 pm:

    no....should we?

By patrick on Wednesday, January 2, 2002 - 03:48 pm:

    s'ppose not

By The Watcher on Wednesday, January 2, 2002 - 04:05 pm:

    Jimmy Crack corn and I don't care...

By Darktranquillity on Saturday, May 15, 2004 - 11:40 am:

    Its kind of pathetic that you find your one track mind to be diverse or intellegent enough to post, my apologies, im being rude. I agree that we are the products of culture, its been obvious since the earliest days that there is no universal right and wrong, its all just overexamined ethnocentric colloquialism. I am what you could look at as a roman catholic of sorts, but of a much older order, but i agree its difficult to put up with the churchs in this country, jumping about and raising there hands to a god they do not comprehend, claiming to feel him in their stomachs, the feelings they have gotten to know as their almighty savior are nothing more than indigestion, but you must admit, there are a handful(two or three out of thousands mind you), but never the less a handful whom are aquainted with sincerity, im sorry, im just sick of the christian bashing, for pagans, or wiccans, or satanists to say every christian is a narrow minded fool, is for a christian to say that every satanist is charles manson, or every aethiest is a gun toting radical. its just plain egocentric, entirely lacking in ecological validity. at any rate im prepared to accept your insults . ill leave my email for you to send them to me. just dont make the mistake of assuming men like tilton have any idea what they are talking about, i can assure they dont.

By heather on Saturday, May 15, 2004 - 02:29 pm:

    you left your email for insults?

    what a crazy fetish

By Antigone on Saturday, May 15, 2004 - 06:44 pm:

    And they used a phrase like "overexamined ethnocentric colloquialism" yet mistook "there" for "their" and somehow thought a conversation would continue on a two year old thread.

    So, trank, you can insult tilton but if a non-christian did that would be "christian bashing"?

    Whassup wid dat, nigga?

By semillama on Monday, May 17, 2004 - 09:48 am:

    Hey, I just noticed Eri's self-identification as a Christian up there - interesting. For some reason I thought she had been Wiccan for a long time.

    And I'm surprised that I never posted at the time that my father's parents were Pentacostals (but not the stereotypical snake-handling backwoods kind). They wanted my dad to become a preacher.

    Dodged a bullet there!

By wisper on Monday, May 17, 2004 - 04:40 pm:

    I went to a Pentacostal church last night to see THIS:

    Never mind the stage show, I'm sure you can imagine what that was like, but i saw all these kids, little kids wearing hard-core christian t-shirts that i'd only ever seen on the internet.

    and not the cute, funny 'jesus loves me' kid shirts, but the intense bloody ones with close-up drawing of jesus's bleeding feet on the cross with a stake through them, like "HIS blood washes me CLEAN" printed on the back.

By TBone on Monday, May 17, 2004 - 05:19 pm:

    I did a school project a while back with a two other people, and 2/3 of the way through the semester, I realized that the reason I had never ever heard of any of the bands that both of them were into and always talking about was because they were hardcore Christian bands of various sorts. Near the end of the project, they subjected me to this DVD full of live recordings done at this huge annual weekend-long carnival of Christan music of every variety. I especially remember the angry, screaming, goth music that was completely incomprehensible except for an occasional clearly shouted "GOD!" or "CHRIST!" or "JESUS!". If I hadn't known it was Christian music, I would have passed it off as the usual blaspheming variety.
    The tattoos were something else.

By TBone on Monday, May 17, 2004 - 05:21 pm:

    What did you wear to the concert?

By wisper on Monday, May 17, 2004 - 06:06 pm:

    That's a very good question, TBabe, and one that i often have trouble with when i go to these sorts of things (which is a lot lately).

    Luckily, i went to a bridal shower that morning and just didn't change. Black blouse and long grey gypsy skirt. I still looked like i was going to a funeral, but at the time i felt that was more representative of how i felt about going to a bridal shower ;)
    Not that i care if i don't fit in at these things, mind you. I don't want anyone talking to me. But that usualy makes them talk to me more!
    I must buy some bluejeans one day, just for this.

    Anyhoo, it didn't matter anyway because we got there late and the lights were already off, and it was packed so we sat at the back.

    oh, it was something special.

By Spider on Monday, May 17, 2004 - 06:56 pm:

    The best Christian band, and they don't associate with the Christian BandsTM, is 16 Horsepower. So sinister and shivery.

    OOh! I found a video (of a sorts) for their song "Splinters," which is one of my favorites. You can see it here.

By TBone on Monday, May 17, 2004 - 07:16 pm:

    I like 16 horsepower.
    First time I heard them, I wasn't really listening until I heard "Little Jesus geek need a good-ass, good-ass clockin'" and asked who the hell it was.

By Spider on Monday, May 17, 2004 - 08:08 pm:

    Ah, I love that song.

    Listen closely to me now, my darlin' girl
    There's one who's out to have you
    And just his breath will burn your curls...
    They played it when I saw them in Philly last month. One of the best shows I've ever been to.

By Pentecostal preacher on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 06:48 pm:

    You gotta serve sombody.It might be the devil it might be God ,But you gotta serve sombody

By Antigone on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 07:33 pm:

    How about serving yourself?

By Holiness man on Thursday, March 3, 2005 - 01:42 am:

    I and my family are Pentecostal people but we don't try to push our beliefs on anyone or judge people for there sexuality, I believe that God will judge everyone for them selves.

By Pentecostal from SWVA on Sunday, May 28, 2006 - 12:52 am:

    I just stumbled upon this website and I must say that I am appalled. Wicca...Homosexuality...Witchcraft...Voodoo... I grew up as and still am a tongue talker... There is nothing wrong with being pentecostal... I will be sure and pray for all of you... I am nobody's judge but I know that these are sinful acts to do... I Hope that God puts conviction on your souls and fire in your hearts so that you will turn from the Devil's ways and into the glorious sunlight of the Lord Jesus Christ!!!

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