be one of "those people" What have you failed to do?: be one of "those people"

By wisper on Saturday, July 21, 2001 - 03:47 am:

    you know those days?
    those days when you feel like your best trait is the thing that's killing you?
    it's killing me.

    Tonight i wish i could be one of those people.
    Yeah, *those* ones.
    The ones that have no empathy. The ones that can't see both sides all the damn time to the point where you can't even get in a decent debate anymore, no matter which side you're on.
    The ones that don't give two shits about the homeless people, let alone some change. they walk on proudly by and maybe they say something totally savage like 'get a job, freak!'
    The ones that get angry at people when they're dicks to you or other people, they just sit there and assume that, hey, this person is a fucking dick. Rather than wonder what would make a person lash out so rudely, well i guess they must be having a rough time lately and chose me as a target for no reason. Oh yes, i can understand that, i'd better just back off and let them cool, they really are nice once you get to know them. Oh no, not *those* people. They'd jump in and sink to this level and bitch and bitch until they were blue in the face and not care one fuck about the other people's feelings. The people who don't care about other humans at all, EVER. Maybe they're hiding the fact that they're really quite hurt on the inside but they're hiding it under a harsh shell, oh, that's tragic, i should understand. *Those* people would not think that, not even for a second. Ignorant joe asshole cracks a beer and buys a Palm Pilot. Can't see out of his own head. Can't try to feel for others. Can't think both ways.
    That is fucking sweet.

    i'm feeling like one of those teenage guys who does the "girls only like assholes, so i'll be an asshole" rant. But unlike poor teenboy, i'm not trying to get laid. I just want to stop fucking understanding shit for a bit, stop caring about others, stop being such a supposedly good person and just be one of *those* ignorant fucks. See only one side ever. Not because i think it's an okay thing to do, it's just easier.

    but i wasn't fortunate enough to be raised by Joe Asshole. Sadly i was raised by artists and musicians and buddhists, so ignorance and insane hate are luxuries i can't afford.

    blah fucking blah

By Pilate on Saturday, July 21, 2001 - 11:53 am:

    I AM Joe Asshole, and it's not any easier on this side of the fence, believe me. You wish you had fewer feelings. And I wish I knew why people keep calling me a jerk when I'm just a rational and enlightened being who sees people for the ignorant, pathetic dogdicks that they really are.

    Aw, hell. So I'm not really Joe A, I guess. But I've been accused a LOT of not having feelings. I've always seemed out of step with the whole damn touchy-feely world. Any decent feelings got stomped out of me early. It makes relationships kind of hellish sometimes, not being all gushy and oozing sympathy out of your ass for every occasion. I'm not an emotionless robot. I just play one nine-tenths of the time.

    Being a REAL Joe Asshole probably isn't any kind of blessing. When your brain capacity puts you on the same level as a common earthworm, life may seem less complicated, but your soul becomes null and void. Not that Joe Asshole would care about that kind of thing.

    Crimson and Pug sometimes talk about the "lumpenproletariat". The lumpenproles are people that Karl Marx identified as being too stupid for much of anything besides cannon fodder. They're too stupid to even fit into a Marxist "worker's paradise". They're literally good for nothing. There's a whole class of people too dim to do anything with at all. Joe Asshole is likely a classic lumpenprole. And on every other day, I feel like a lumpenprole, myself.

    Anyway, sorry to ramble on. You can just chalk up this burst of verbal diarrhea to the fact that I've ingested too much caffeine too early in the day. But I know what you're saying, I really maybe I'm not Joe Asshole after all, but just a really good impersonator.

By bingo on Saturday, July 21, 2001 - 01:12 pm:

    i know you're ranting, but..."Sadly i was raised by artists and musicians and buddhists, so ignorance and insane hate are luxuries i can't afford."

    i don't think artists, musicians, and buddhists are automatically free of ignorance, insane hate, rudeness, etc. in fact, i've known plenty of jacques and jules assholes who were artists, musicians, or buddhists, and who would rather
    crack a beer or fire up a blunt and stay in their
    own heads than entertain alternate viewpoints or conditions, while imagining themselves to be more "aware" or
    "sensitive" than others because, well, just because. because they said so, basically.

    point taken, though.

By wisper on Saturday, July 21, 2001 - 11:35 pm:

    well, i figured as long as i was stereotyping Joe Asshole, i might as well do it to myself as well.

    Always being fair...again.

By agatha on Sunday, July 22, 2001 - 01:48 pm:

    there is no joe asshole. people are not so black and white as they seem sometimes. some just play it better on tv. i think if we were to have the gift of being in anyone's head for just one day, we would find that all people are much more complex than we think, and can't realistically be reduced to one dimensional figures.

    i know what you mean, though. it's a bottomless pit, either way.

By patrick on Monday, July 23, 2001 - 11:25 am:

    "a pit with spikes is what Im making you up"


By cyst on Monday, July 23, 2001 - 01:15 pm:

    "jacques and jules assholes" -- that's good.

    as were the cookies at agatha's barbeque on saturday! thanks!

By wisper on Monday, July 23, 2001 - 06:21 pm:

    but my dilemma lies in the moral questions.
    Like why do i bother. really, why does anyone. Itís not like iím doing this for any religious reasons. I donít have a god to honour with good deeds towards his creation. I donít believe in a heaven so iím not working my way up to a bigger, golder cloud when i die. Iím not a follower of karma. Iím not like this for any reason at all. It doesnít even make sense to me. I just think itís what i have to do. Just be good to all living and sentient things, always.
    So what the hell is the point.
    What is it that keeps me opening doors for old women and listening to sad people and counseling abused teens and not eating animals. What keeps the picture of the Dahlia Llama on my wall.
    Is that the purpose of good people? to make assholes lives easier?
    to let them merge in front during a traffic jam?

    i donít even believe in ďgoodĒ or ďbadĒ

    what the hell is the point.

    like pearl jam told me-
    iíll stop trying to make a difference
    iím not trying to make a difference
    iíll stop trying to make a difference
    no way

By Nate on Monday, July 23, 2001 - 06:39 pm:

    the point is you're lying to yourself about what you really believe in.

    you need some quiet time.

By heather on Monday, July 23, 2001 - 07:22 pm:

    everything you do you do for you

    now if that ain't a tongue-twister

By cyst on Monday, July 23, 2001 - 08:13 pm:

    agreed. altruism doesn't exist.

By wisper on Monday, July 23, 2001 - 08:42 pm:

    that's what i thought.

    the masters called it 'wise-selfishness'

    mmm....hickory sticks.

By Antigone on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 10:32 am:

    Altruism does exist, it's just reciprocal altruism. We do good things because we expect, in some way, for good things to happen to us in return. It may not be immediate, but we believe it will happen. Religions have the "going to heaven" and "karma" idea, but you can have the same thing without religion by thinking of it as building up trust relationships in your society. Sure, that isn't as "certain" as a belief in some mystical force paying me back for good or ill deeds, but I see the "certainty" of those beliefs as an unmitigated pile of steaming horseshit anyway, so just anything else is preferable.

    Check out the book Nonzero for a good treatment of this subject.

By patrick on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 11:50 am:

    i returned this woman's very expensive sony digital/mpeg movie camera, nico picked up at a gallery show, thinking the case looked like the case for my flash ( i was photographing that night, the sweet button bless her heart)

    but when we got in the car, after the show closed, she said, heres your flash. I said, thats not mine. Opened it to find a very nice camera. I looked through the files, hoping to find some booty pics, but no such luck.

    I called the gallery the next day and returned it to the girl.

    I have some serious camera karma stockpiled for that.

    Moreover though antigone...i was actually empathetic to her situation, and how sick she may have felt. I know how sick I would have felt if it were my camera. It made me feel good knowing I could alleviate that, even in a stranger.

By cyst on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 12:18 pm:

    exactly. "it made [you] feel good..." altruism is all about making yourself feel good (about making others feel good), so it isn't "altruism" at all.

By Antigone on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 02:40 pm:

    So what?

    So what if there is "no altruism." I never saw the point in that statement, and still don't. So what if people benefit, either internally or externally, from a action that helps others?

By cyst on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 03:44 pm:

    wisper said her "dilemma lies in the moral questions," not the practical ones.

    if people want to fly to war/disaster-torn countries to hand out kraft macaroni and cheese to cute, smiling kids in the name of god, altruism, or philip morris, I guess it doesn't matter much, as long as people are getting fed, but still that's no reason to pretend that "reciprocal altruism" isn't an oxymoron.

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