ART DOES NOT EXIST


sorabji.com: Is it art?: ART DOES NOT EXIST
THIS IS A READ-ONLY ARCHIVE FROM THE SORABJI.COM MESSAGE BOARDS (1995-2016).
By GaJay9aol.com on Monday, April 27, 1998 - 12:37 pm:
    ART DOES NOT EXIST...Or everything is art...I haven't decided yet... I have, however, decided that love and hate are the same thing, confidence is a mental disorder and beauty is diease.

By SlyDog on Tuesday, July 7, 1998 - 08:02 pm:
    Mmm yeah but no

By Nate on Wednesday, July 8, 1998 - 01:28 pm:
    art who?

By Kelsey on Wednesday, July 8, 1998 - 03:15 pm:
    everything can be art, although the world has not yet caught on to this entirely. when it does, it may change the definition of art entirely. art is not easily defined. confidence is not a mental disorder, and love and hate are entirely different beasts. beauty can be a disease, but not always.

By Blindswine on Wednesday, July 8, 1998 - 05:37 pm:
    never trust anything that's too pretty in this world.

By Chordata on Thursday, July 9, 1998 - 09:08 pm:
    words spoken wisely by a bitter man.

By Strange on Thursday, July 30, 1998 - 04:22 pm:
    Kelsey- Wrong. Wrong. Wrong! Love and hate are simply different aspects of the same emotion! I know this! Love and hate are like personal morals of what is right and what is wrong, you could sit and label them differently all day but what it all boils down to is that there is no seperation between the two! Where do you draw the line between laugh and scream? Hm? What right do you have to say what is and what is not? Well? Nobody has the right! Nobody!

    -your friend, strange

    Also as far as what is art it's either everything or nothing, basically.

By Kelsey on Thursday, July 30, 1998 - 11:43 pm:
    art- everything or nothing. i agree with you.
    love and hate the same? gotta disagree with you there. for me, they couldn't be more different. however, i am not the only emotion experiencing neuron bundle on this planet, either.

    maybe we are both right?

By Kelsey on Thursday, July 30, 1998 - 11:43 pm:
    art- everything or nothing. i agree with you.
    love and hate the same? gotta disagree with you there. for me, they couldn't be more different. however, i am not the only emotion experiencing neuron bundle on this planet, either.

    maybe we are both right?

By Kelsey on Thursday, July 30, 1998 - 11:43 pm:
    aaahhhhshit.

By Quidam on Friday, July 31, 1998 - 12:10 am:
    Art Bell does exist. I listened to him last night on the radio. Pow! ( I wish I could insert a little rimshot sound here)

By Starchy on Friday, July 31, 1998 - 03:44 pm:
    Ack. Sometimes I think waaaay too much. When you mentioned Art Bell, my instant interpretation was that you were making a guarded reference to Clive Bell's theory of art being defined by Significant Form.

    Stoopid brain!

    Brain? What brain?

    Ha-ha! Fooled.. me!

By Quidam on Friday, July 31, 1998 - 07:37 pm:
    Starchy -

    No, nothing so intellectual. I'm much to low brow for that.

By Strange on Wednesday, August 5, 1998 - 02:22 am:
    Kelsy- Maybe. Perhaps. It's possible. I must apoligize for raving like that but I have pages written on the subject. I would transcribe them here but at the moment I am too lazy. As far as the whole love/hate thing though in my experience the two blend together flawlessly. Have you ever been in love with someone you could not be with? I have. One day I would find myself wollowing in self-pity, crying and torturing myself over not having her and wishing I could be with her (I would even write on varios surfaces 'I LOVE HER I LOVE HER I LOVE HER I LOVE HER' and I would just break down). The next I would involve myself in fits of rage, breaking glass and screaming at the skies and wanting to kill her for what she's done to me; I would be hateful and spiteful and wish for her death. For a while she would not talk to me because I 'scare her' and that just plain hurt. But now I have settled between love and hate in my feelings for her, slightly better off than I was when it all started. Anyway, the point is that certain things like love and hate are really contained in the same shell. They may seem different but they are just different ends of the same spectrum.

    In a nigh-lugubrious daze,
    Strange

    P.S. READ THE OPENING CONVERSATION BETWEEN ROMEO AND BENVOLIO IN Romeo and Juliet.

By Starchy on Wednesday, August 5, 1998 - 12:14 pm:
    Strange - there's a difference between love and desire, and it sounds like the rage you experienced came more from desire than love.

    In my experience, hate can spring from frustration just as easily as it can from disgust.

By Nate on Wednesday, August 5, 1998 - 01:37 pm:
    i would tend to agree with Starchy. i'd rather die than kill one i love.

    lust is not love nor hate. lust can fool you into feeling either, i suppose.

    but what do i know? i have a feeling my expierence with hate echos your expierence with love. i can't think of anyone i've really hated. there have been times where i've thought i hated someone, but retrospect shows my error.


By Strange on Wednesday, August 5, 1998 - 03:36 pm:
    I may not have conveyed how I felt too clearly. Trust me it was not just desire, it was not lust, it was nothing but the pure, true, sickening and mindbending form of love one experiences very very rarely, REAL LOVE. Also, BTW, just for the record I went through a long period of wanting to kill myself. I, on more than one occasion, asked her to take my life. I felt impulses to jump through windows on the tenth story of buildings. YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND, I LOVED HER AND GAVE HER MY MIND HEART AND SOUL AND SHE DID NOT ACCEPT. SHE LOVED SOMEONE ELSE THE SAME WAY I LOVED HER AND I COULD NOT STAND IT. See, originally we were both good friends and slowly I fell in love with her. It got to the point where she could tell that somthing was wrong when I was around her and I finally had to tell her my feelings. That's when it all got screwed up... I don't feel like talking about this right now.

    The truth is a conglomeration of the world's most popular lies,
    Strange

By Nate on Wednesday, August 5, 1998 - 04:15 pm:
    i don't think real love is one sided.

    just a thought.

By Kelsey on Wednesday, August 5, 1998 - 07:23 pm:
    ouch, nate. i agree with you, but ouch irregardless.

By Strange on Thursday, August 6, 1998 - 01:43 am:
    REAL LOVE IS NOT ONE-SIDED. WORDS CANNOT EXPRESS MY LOVE, MY PAIN, MY EXTACY, MY SORROW, MY JOY, MY GOOD AND EVIL QUITE SIMPLY MY LOVE.

    Chitty Chitty Bang Bang
    Strange

    Also, someday soon I'll post some of my rants here if any will lend attention.

By Lurker on Thursday, August 6, 1998 - 02:56 am:
    i think real love *can* be one-sided. it is rare but i believe it happens.
    when you know you love someone so much you just want to give her
    everything and anything you've got, without expecting anything in
    return. you just have to give. because you love her with all your heart.
    yes, you *want* something back, you wish she loved you back,
    but even when you're not getting love in return she still gives you so
    much just by being who she is that you keep loving her not by choice
    but by default.

    has anyone felt this?

    (ps: it's possible that for this to be possible, there needs to be some form of
    love for you in her heart that is not of the outspoken direct kind, but something
    more fuzzy and abstract somewhere deep down. i don't know.)

By Lurker on Thursday, August 6, 1998 - 02:58 am:
    sorry about the formatting of that message. forgot how this thing functions.

By Nate on Thursday, August 6, 1998 - 12:25 pm:
    that's not real love. at least, not in my opinion.

    i don't think love is something that exists in a single person. it is a combined emotion of two people. you have to feel -for- and -from- a person. single sided infatuation is no more love than having someone infatuated with you.

    i also think you have to experience love to begin to understand it. i know that to people who have never experienced it, it is hard to fathom how different it could be from your own realm of emotion. you can't comprehend that which is outside what you know to be.



By Kelsey on Thursday, August 6, 1998 - 01:12 pm:
    one sided love is more an obsessive need to conquer the other's heart than it is actually love. i know people who are only interested in the conquering part, and then shy away when it comes to the real down and dirty of the relationship. then they can continue to convince themselves that their love is more real and passionate than the love of say, a ten year old relationship. just another thought on this complex matter.

By Starchy on Thursday, August 6, 1998 - 03:29 pm:

By Chordata on Friday, August 7, 1998 - 03:55 am:
    who are you to dictate to someone else what the rules and conditions are that qualify love?

    if he calls what he feels love, then it is. why is his type of love invalidated because it doesn't match your definition?

    i think only he really knows.

By Starchy on Friday, August 7, 1998 - 11:20 am:
    i dictated nothing
    i gave my thoughts on the subject, as did he
    if what i've said came off that way, than it did not come across as i meant it to

    i think only no one really knows any thing

By Nate on Friday, August 7, 1998 - 12:17 pm:
    if everyone could make their own definitions for every word, the world would be in chaos.

    the word love has lost meaning because of how often it is used incorrectly. "i love you man" "oh god i love chocolate" etc.

    love does has a specific meaning.

    you don't see me hitting a ball against a wall and calling it tennis. tennis takes two people.


By Blindswine on Friday, August 7, 1998 - 03:28 pm:
    pfffft...

    bartender?

By Antigone on Sunday, August 9, 1998 - 02:26 am:
    I don't think you can pidgeon-hole love quite so easily, Nate. And, one word can have many definitions, and even many shades of meaning in one definition, or the same meaning can have different connotations in different context, etc...

    And love is one of the most slippery concepts in human experience. The problem in English is that we have only one word for so many feelings. Romantic love, platonic love, familial love, friendly love, love of place, love of things, Christ's love, Bodhissatva's love, obsessive love. So many aspects, from the mundane, to the holy, to the interpersonal. Are these all aspects of the same experience? What do they have in common? And how can you say that any one of them isn't *really* love?


By Lionking on Thursday, August 20, 1998 - 07:18 am:

    I love the way we can skirt around abstract issues.
    (maybe I just love skirt - shame it's not reciprocated)
    It's a useful (if somewhat depressing) exercise to quantify the abstract.
    What you want and what you get.
    What you can "realistically" expect.
    When you apply defined parameters you can come up with limited solutions.
    For example if you think of love (or art) as a job and then ask why you can't get one.
    Why does the other get what I can't?
    How does this happen?
    love is god is truth is...
    just a lot of fannying around.
    Sweet mystery of life...where the !@%^!@ are you hiding?


By Spiracle on Thursday, August 20, 1998 - 10:59 am:

    i disagree..with

    'when you apply defined parameters you can come up with limited solutions'

    if you're uncreative and give up easily, maybe..otherwise, a little definition sets the starting point for infinite possibilities..

    but you're right in that, things won't come
    under a desperate and tight grasp...
    you just need to be open and let it come..

    but..

    i think art and love can't always be lumped
    together as the same entity...

    one involves some intelligence and the other just happens..


By Jackbeanstalk on Thursday, August 20, 1998 - 02:40 pm:

    the other just happens (or not).
    maybe it's possible to invert that?
    love involves some intelligence and art just happens.
    maybe both are easy except when others are involved?
    maybe both are impossible except when others are involved?
    How do I make an art?
    what do I need to make an art?
    inclination?
    inspiration?
    space?
    materials?
    time?
    complicity?

    how do I make a love?
    what do I need to make a love?

    fannying around again....
    and back into the mysterious marketplace of negotiable metaphysics?
    we need to define specifics.
    what price art?
    what price love?
    am you buying or selling?
    unless we lay down an immutable rationale for evaluation then it's just a case of bargain hunting and feeling ripped off.
    maybe it's just me that hasn't seen the price list?





By Giant on Thursday, August 20, 1998 - 02:54 pm:

    I am very large.
    I live alone in the sky.
    I keep geese.
    I smell blood.
    Maybe I'm paranoid but I feel like I'm going to get done over.


By Starchy on Friday, August 21, 1998 - 01:57 pm:

    even educated fleas do it


By Infernalmachine on Sunday, August 23, 1998 - 12:05 pm:

    Art is like the presidents nob.
    It may exist but I haven't seen it.
    And long may it stay that way.


By K on Monday, August 24, 1998 - 06:53 pm:

    boston baked beans do it---what a great song


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