Love Is it art?: Love

By Struck on Tuesday, October 6, 1998 - 10:18 pm:

    I am in Love. I look into his eyes and I see the universe, and I see the future, and I see his soul, and at the same time, I see a nothing. Not a nothing like a big hole, but an absence of judgement. i see total and complete respect and trust. And I see colors and streaks of intelect and spirit. i see a painting of a soul and an original, beautiful person. Is that art to anyone else?

By LOVEs ONce on Tuesday, October 13, 1998 - 12:49 am:

    LOve is when............
    You see your lover and your body tingles all over
    even though you've seen him a thousand times before.
    When you kiss him you get the same butterfly feeling you got the first time you kissed.
    When you're out alone and you pick up the
    most gorgeous guy in the room that every girl in the room wants:but then you think "fuck you"...... is better.
    When you go shopping 4 u and you end up with a
    thousand bags 4 him.
    When you want you're good-bye kiss every night
    to last forever.
    When you call his mobile and it starts ringing...
    you're heart throbs.
    When you lay in his arms, and it seems that nothing else matters because you know you're in safe hands.
    When you're with him 24 hours ,7 days a week
    and it seems you can't get enough of him.
    WHen he says "I love YOU", you think "fuck, i've found the one!!"......
    That's what love is.

    Dedicated to D.J.S of EPPING

By Struck on Thursday, October 15, 1998 - 01:02 pm:

    I know all those feelings with him. Thanks for bringing them up to the surface again. I was starting to get too comfortable. We just hit a year on Tuesday!! :)

By Loves once on Friday, October 16, 1998 - 12:14 am:

    well, struck just a word of advice:
    1 year=a long time in other words good luck for the future!!!

By Magickality on Thursday, July 15, 1999 - 04:04 pm:


    love is/has multiple personalities
    your best enemy and worst friend all in one
    it's a voluptuous chick in leather bondage gear
    it's your grandmother smelling of freshly baked goodies
    it's two men on a plush velvet couch
    sharing/baring their souls with/to each other

    it's horrible pain, tearing at you like a dull scalpel
    it's utopic pleasure, filling you with warm ecstacy
    it knows no boundaries--has no prejudices
    it hates everyone equally
    amor es el mismo en todas las linguas

    love is something i wish i never knew
    love is something i openly welcome every day

By sarah on Wednesday, November 5, 2003 - 12:11 pm:

    i'm listening to the new Galactic CD, i went to see Once Upon a Time in Mexico last night, and my internet connection is slow.

    i get a 159 new emails every morning and 153 of them are spam, two of them are mailing list digests, one of them is a forward from an aunt who has recently discovered aol, etc.

    my roommate yelled at me this morning. i had (completely unintentionally) hurt her feelings, which explains why she's been being such a fucking passive aggressive bitch lately. i definitely noticed, but i never take stuff like that personally. so when it finally came out into the open i was utterly blindsided by the reason. my roommate seems to be a very emotional, dramatic person, moody, perhaps judgmental of others, a social control freak, and shows hints of being a crisis addict. my theory is that it helps her maintain her need to feel she is the center of attention. which she mostly always is, bless her heart. she's good at being the center of attention, and her big circle of friends obviously adore her, as they should. they all seem to me to be a great group of people.

    also, my roommate smokes a lot of pot. she smokes pot like other people smoke cigarettes. i'm concerned for her.

    she's not a bad person. we all have our issues, and otherwise she's a great gal and we generally get along fine, particularly in the day-to-day funtions of co-habitation. no problems there whatsoever. there may be something i don't completely trust yet, but i don't judge her and i mostly try to stay out of the way and out of her business. i want us to be close friends, i want to feel like i can confide in her and tell her how i feel about things, and i've tried to, but she comes across as judgmental, so it's difficult.

    i very much regret hurting her feelings, but i'm annoyed at the same time. it's a bad way to start off a day and now i'm grumpy, edgy, on guard, and feeling distrustful. time to lay low for a while.

    i haven't been sleeping well either. i can fall asleep just fine, but i can't stay asleep. about six times a week my body wakes up for 2-3 hours in the middle of the night. i'm not worried about anything, i'm not particularly stressed out. it's a physical unrest. my muscles are sore, tense. i can't seem to relax enough to get back to sleep. laying there awake is nothing but pure torture, so i get up and clean the house, or do yoga, and take ibuprofin. i was so desperate for sleep one night last week that i heated up in the microwave about half a cup of my roommate's non-organic low-fat milk and then actually drank it. it was disgusting. i will never, ever do that again.

    when i had insomnia when i lived in hawaii i would get up and hike up the ridge where i lived, or hike up to the top of diamond head crater.

    i won't be going to hawaii for thanksgiving nor for christmas. i was supposed to go to jamaica for thanksgiving, but it got too expensive, and i'm trying to plan that eco-adventure trip to costa rica for christmas break. i need somewhere to be, something to do, to take my mind and my body away from the other reality in which in a life of more ordinary circumstances i would be engaged.

    i'm thirty three years old now and this is what it's come down to. squabbles with roommates and insomnia and how am i going to spend the holidays.

    recently i wrote to a good friend that if i don't find someone good to love very, very soon that i will wither up and die.

    it doesn't feel right to live life this aimlessly, filling up time with seemingly meaningless and arbitrary interests and goals. trust me. i'm as tired of thinking and talking about it as you are. and i have tried to get over it, get on with it, find complete fulfilment as a strong, independent woman, "be okay with myself", or whatever other politically correct paradigm everyone else thinks i should embrace.

    i tried all of that, and it's bullshit.

    being lonely isn't pathetic, it isn't a disease, it isn't a crime. it doesn't define me. it's just a feeling, and while i truly believe i've exhausted possibly all conceivable ways to not feel that way, it's there. it's real. it's not going away.

    i need someone good to love. i need someone i can trust and be loyal to.

    i'm thirty three years old now and it's finally happened: i feel so past due.

By heather on Wednesday, November 5, 2003 - 02:00 pm:


By patrick on Wednesday, November 5, 2003 - 02:20 pm:

    sarah...don't make me share my misery to try and counter your misery.

By wisper on Wednesday, November 5, 2003 - 06:47 pm:

    oh sweet, we're all miserable.

By heather on Wednesday, November 5, 2003 - 07:18 pm:

    i'm not.

    but don't get me thinking about babies again.

By moonit on Thursday, November 6, 2003 - 01:01 am:

    My friend Sarah got engaged last night. He proposed under the fireworks. They've been together for three years. She has two children to two men (neither are him). He bought her a ring that was $120, and its beautiful.

    I've been with the pandyr on and off for seven years. There's no ring, there's no children. Is it wrong to be jealous?

    I want to get married. I don't need a diamond.


By sarah on Thursday, November 6, 2003 - 11:18 am:

    i'm not at all miserable.

    i'm lonely, but i'm definitely not miserable.

    a few months ago i picked up a girl named jenny at the bar (the "i love your necklace" line** works every time). it was the night of my first date with the ass doctor actually. two weeks later jenny and i went out on a date. i met her at her condo, she drove. we had dinner at a fancy restaurant; we split a bottle of really good wine. afterward we went to the tavern for another drink. we split the dinner bill, but i bought her drink at the tavern, because if you pay then she's supposed to put out.

    just kidding.

    anyway, we didn't see each other or talk at all after that night until last week. she called to invite me to join a book club she and her other friend are putting together. i absolutely could not turn down the invitation to meet an entirely new group of women, even though i've tried being in a book club before and didn't stick with it (i'm a picky reader).

    so the first meeting was last night. happy hour at a wine and tapas bar downtown (the chickiest place imaginable). about thirteen 30-something and two or so 40-something women showed up. i knew none of them except jenny, but most of them knew each other if not very well then tangentially through jenny and jenny's best friend. i can't remember any of their names except angela (the 40-something single mom) who i swear i know from somewhere, and penelope (the very refined late-30-something single lawyer).

    only two of the fifteen women in attendance are married. jenny is happily divorced. naturally the only women there who were even remotely my type (friends or otherwise) were the two who are married, because i am hopeless attracted exclusively to heterosexual women. the others girls seemed sort of prissy, in that texas proper way, though none confessed to being republican when the subject arose.

    in any case, after we ordered our wine*** and food, we signed in on a sheet of paper with our names, emails, and birthdates. then jenny and her friend led a discussion about how we all wanted to start off the book club, deciding how, who, and when we would pick books, where and when meetings will be held, and ideas any of us had about book clubs.

    then we went around the table taking turns introducing ourselves and disclosing to the group a little something about us so we could get familiar.

    and it wasn't until we got to one particular woman that i suddenly realized i could be in a scene in bridget jones or something and i felt so utterly pathetic. after stating her name and occupation, she said, "... and i'm starting the process of adopting a baby." everyone congratulated her, then she said, "i'm turning 33 in a few days and while i am dating, i just can't depend on getting married and having a family that way, but i know i definitely want a child in my life. so i'm going to do this."

    and it just sort of broke my heart. because i understand the complexities of a situation out of which a decision like that is made. she really is trying to "get on with it", "be okay with herself", "take charge of her life", and "be a strong, independent woman". but you know that if she could have it any other way, she'd be madly in love, married, with a picket fence house and a minivan.

    and who's to say it's not too late? maybe it is too late. statistically speaking it may indeed be too late. maybe she feels past due too.

    the other single 30-something women were less obvious about loathing their 30-something singleness. but the whole scene sort of reeked of quiet desperation. desperately trying to make a connection to fifteen very different and very similar women, to fill up the minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, with 30-something appropriate activities.

    i wondered what the only 30-something man sitting alone at the bar less than fifteen feet away from our table thought about all of this.

    i admit that the following thought crossed my mind as i walked into the bar: maybe i'll meet someone through one of the women i meet tonight.

    miserable? not really. pathetic maybe. lonely, sure.

    and i can't even remember now what the first book selection is.

    ** jenny's pick-up line is "i'm 34 and a size zero. where else are you going to find that?" jenny is a peppy second-grade teacher who wears pearls.

    *** i drank one glass of wine.

By kazu on Thursday, November 6, 2003 - 11:54 am:

    Thinking that I didn't need love in my life nearly destroyed me. sarah, you're not pathetic.

    I don't expect that this will make you or anyone feel better, just just a big ole' fuck you from kazu to anyone who makes you feel like you are not okay, strong, and so forth, just because you value love and intimacy and are unhappy without it.

    This is just my rant.

    I don't see why being a strong independent woman precludes intense feelings of loneliness. that is just fucked up and reflects a kind of 20-year-old way of thinking of what it means to be a strong independent woman. wanting to love and be loved are part of what makes us human and to deny that, or try to avoid it, is just to create another set of impossible standards. to me, "getting on with it" doesn't mean ignoring it; you still have to deal with the monkey that is life-here-on-earth and all the feces she throws at you. Being single is frustrating if being in love is important to you, and no matter how much confidence you have, being rejected or feeling like no one wants to bother with you is still painful. Confidence doesn't make you immune to pain, it just only protects you from utter self-destruction.

    There is a HUGE difference between needing to love/be loved because of how important being in love is and needing to love/be loved because your whole sense of identity is dependent on it. And feeling complete when you meet someone special does not mean you're just buying into some standard that to be a single woman is to be less of a person, it's a feeling dammit, and it's a good feeling. And, being okay with oneself is just that "okay." It doesn't mean ecstatic, thrilled, or even happy all the time.

    Life can still be painful, even when things are exactly as you want them, because what it takes to keep things good things going still requires work and emotional investments.

By patrick on Thursday, November 6, 2003 - 12:11 pm:

    ok. fine. so im the only one miserable.

By kazu on Thursday, November 6, 2003 - 12:17 pm:

    If it helps, I'm back in therapy. I could elaborate but I won't for now. There isn't anything I can point to that's wrong, I'm just a mess.

    Anyway, Patrick, I'm thinking of you and hoping everything works out. Write if you need anything.

By Antigone on Thursday, November 6, 2003 - 12:39 pm:

    "i wondered what the only 30-something man sitting alone at the bar less than fifteen feet away from our table thought about all of this."

    He was probably thinking, "Stop being so goddamn picky and settle for someone."

    No, actually he was thinking, "Nice ass!"

By Spider on Thursday, November 6, 2003 - 12:59 pm:

    I'm not qualified to give advice in this situation, and my own misery is my own fault, but I will say that my aunt Anne met her husband when she was 41 and he was 45. He was the single father of one of her students. They lived together for a while (after his daughter was no longer her student) and got married a few years later (I think Annie was 45), and they have a pretty dang fun and healthy relationship. So, you know, early 30s isn't that old to be single.

By Spider on Thursday, November 6, 2003 - 01:13 pm:

    I'm sorry if that last sentence was awkward or insensitive. This is my poor attempt at a pep talk.

By patrick on Thursday, November 6, 2003 - 01:34 pm:


By kazu on Thursday, November 6, 2003 - 01:35 pm:

    I cry and get all bent out of shape when I think about babies.

By heather on Thursday, November 6, 2003 - 01:40 pm:

    i don't know what's wrong with me, but i never
    feel lonely. i feel a lot of fucked up things but
    never really lonely.

    actually, the first year of school after final
    review, we went out that night and everyone
    went home and i had a day or 2 left before i
    was going to the airport. i walked around the
    yard and almost no one was there, none of my
    friends had stayed in town. it was really late
    and snowing slightly and i walked over to
    charlie's which was the only place open. i ate
    fries or something and eventually went home.
    that time felt lonely but it also felt really good.

    i thought i had something more meaningful to
    say. but i don't.

    i still want everyone to move within walking
    distance of me though. thanks.

By sarah on Thursday, November 6, 2003 - 01:41 pm:

    wow, thank you so much kazoo. that means a lot to me.

    i'm really sorry to hear you feel like you're a mess. it's surprising, because to me you seem so utterly together. but i'm glad you're taking action to help make it better. most people just wallow indefinitely - so if it's any consolation, you're way ahead of the game.

By kazu on Thursday, November 6, 2003 - 01:50 pm:

    Thank you Sarah. I'm doing much better. Being a "mess" is just more or less accepting that I am and always will be prone to unexpected bouts of depression.

    "i walked over to charlie's which was the only place open"

    Charlie's Kitchen? I miss it there. It's the only place in the world I've been asked, "Are you going to sing some more?" One of the bartenders was a little too amused with the Ramones sing along I had by myself there one night.

By TBone on Thursday, November 6, 2003 - 01:51 pm:

    Both my parents met their matches in their 40s and are quite happy now.

By heaterh on Thursday, November 6, 2003 - 02:07 pm:

    yeah, charlie's kitchen :)

By sarah on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 04:19 pm:

    i just ate an atkins chocolate decadence bar. they're mighty tasty, as are the chocolate peanut butter ones. i have one about every other day, to ensure the proper chocolate requirements are met without ingesting too much sugar.

    the patch continues to work wonders. if all goes according to plan, i should have a period tomorrow or wednesday. i'm not bloated, i don't feel sad, i haven't cried or been irritable, and my appetite continues to remain bird-like. unfuckingbelievable, really just amazing.

    so. there's been a sudden and miraculous turn of events in my life. it involves a decoy named Dylan, and a boy named Dave.

    my roommate has three best friends: Dave, Tom, and Briar. she hangs with them 3-6 days a week. ever since i moved in with her she has always included me on invitations to go out with her and her friends. i mostly go, sometimes i don't. her friends are all really cool people. after a month or so, it seemed like at every social gathering eventually dave and i would gravitate toward each other, off in the background.

    i liked dave right away. he's smart, funny, handsome, and we have a lot in common - love of live music being the primary thing. but we're both web developers too. and we both have crazy family stuff, and we like to do the same things. we like to go out and party, but not as hard or as late as the others. so of course i developed a little crush on dave.

    after the first month of living with her and doing things with her group of friends, donna told me that she wanted dave and i to hook up. i was like, yeah, i'm all for that idea. but it didn't appear that dave was on the same page. i occassionally would test the water by being flirtatious with him, but he was never anything more than platonically friendly with me.

    which was fine too. i wasn't going to push anything. i like dave, and being friends worked for me too.

    what i didn't know until a few nights ago, was that all of their other friends also were approaching dave on the side, asking him, "what's up with Sarah? you two seem to be hitting it off."

    so time goes by and i pretty much give up on the whole dating dave idea. one night dave, donna, and i go see Step Into Liquid, and afterward we head across the street to a bar to catch the last few innings of the final Yankees-Red Sox series.

    while at the bar, this other guy there catches my attention. he's wearing a blue aloha shirt, jeans, and sandals. and he's incredibly sexy and attractive. and he's by himself, reading a book (Al Franken) in between innings.

    so when he gets up and goes to the bar to get a beer, i get up from the table where i'm sitting with dave and donna, and go the bar to get a water. it was as if he was waiting for me to do just that, because even though his back was turned to me, as soon as i got up to the bar he turned around, smiled, grabbed my elbow and pulled me up to the bar.

    we started talking and immediately hit it off. his name is dylan, he's a masonry contractor and kayaking instructor. i was totally charmed and dazzled by him. so we sat together the rest of the game and got to know each other. at the end of the night we traded business cards and hugged and said we'd be in touch.

    i called him the next evening and left a message. typically i wouldn't do that, but i just had a really good feeling about dylan. he called me back.

    he ended up coming over to my house the next friday night, the night donna and i had a pumpkin carving party at our house. of course, all of donna's friends were there, as well as dylan. i barely had a chance to talk to dave at all that night, because dylan was there and we were totally absorbed with each other.

    monday something a little odd started to happen, though i didn't notice the pattern until a week later. dave started emailing me. JUST me. usually all those folks email each other on big email lists; they talk about all the fun things going on and plans they want to make during the week. but dave started this fun and light email conversation with me.

    the next thing i know, dave and i have plans to go see a band halloween night, and then meet up with all their other friends afterward for another party. but i honestly didn't think anything of it. i never got even a hint that there was any romantic interest whatsoever. it all seemed very platonic. i assumed that he wanted us to pair up because we both are the music geeks of the crowd, and also we don't drink or smoke pot nearly as much as the rest of them do.

    dave and i have a blast on halloween, and he basically takes care of me the whole night.

    the next night i had a date with dylan. dylan and i are hanging out at my house, and donna is getting ready to go out. unbeknownst to me however, tom and dave are on their way over to my house to pick donna up to go to another halloween party. so dylan and i are there chillin together when tom and dave show up. after they leave, dylan kissed me and i just about fainted right there in the kitchen. it was the sexiest, best kiss i have EVER had. the chemistry between us is way too hot. but dylan goes home eventually and says he'll call.

    monday i get another email from dave. he wants to go see a movie tuesday night and do i want to go? he sends the email only to me. i say, yeah, sure, sounds good. i notice he didn't email anyone else (which is weird for that group of friends), but i didn't think too much of it because we all know that donna's 2-month-old nephew was having open heart surgery that day and she would be at the hospital that night, and we knew that briar had to work, and amanda was out w/ her boyfriend, and tom was busy. so whatever, everyone pretty much was accounted for.

    we go and have a great time. he pays, and it feels maybe a little bit like a date, but he's not making any moves or being flirty, so again, in my mind i'm just having a good time with a new friend.

    wednesday morning i get up and donna asks, were you out with dylan last night? no, i tell her. dave and i went to see a movie. well, donna proceeds to freak out. she's mad that i'm doing things with her friends and not inviting her along, because they are HER friends and i wouldn't even know them if it wasn't for HER, and she always invites me and includes me, and her feelings are hurt because it seems like i'm being sneaky and making plans with her friends and not inviting her or including her.

    well, i'm blindsided by all of this, but of course i feel bad for hurting her feelings. i apologize profusely and try to explain the circumstances. donna says, you know, i can understand if it was like a date. was it a date? she asks.

    donna, i don't know what it was, i tell her.

    donna says, well, it couldn't be a date, because Vanessa told me that she talked to dave about you and that dave said he wasn't interested in dating anyone.

    that's fine, i say. besides, everyone knows that something is starting up between me and dylan. but i think to myself, what does me having a date or not a date with dave have to do with anything?

    wednesday comes and it occurs to me that dylan hasn't called. it seems like if he likes me and wants to see me, he would have called in the last 3-4 days. so i call dylan on my lunch hour and we have a really nice conversation that lasted 20 minutes. dylan says he's really happy to hear from me, that he's been thinking about me. but dylan is in a tough spot. he's out of work and suddenly had to move out of his house and in with his brother in south austin, and basically he apologizes that he's been out of touch and that the timing seems to be really bad, he's got too much survival-type stuff to deal with, can't really concentrate on dating right now. he's embarrassed he doesn't have any money.

    i completely understand, and know he's being sincere. so i tell him i'm going to leave the ball in his court, and whenever he wants to get together with me just call. i tell him i don't care that he's broke, we don't have to do anything invovling money, that we can just spend time together. i tease him and flirt with him by saying, let me feed you or take you out for drinks. you can pay me back in labor. he likes this and laughs, and says, yeah, okay, thanks for being so cool, i'll call you.

    thursday emails are flying around donna's group of friends about everyone going out for First Thursday (this big, fun monthly street fair /music event). dave emails me and says, i'm kinda tired and the weather is cold and drizzly, i don't feel like going to First Thursday. do you want to come over and watch a movie?

    well, i haven't slept in nearly a month, and i abhor the cold, so a movie at dave's place sounds divine and i accept. i tell him to call me later.

    he calls me after work on thursday and we confirm that i'm coming to his house for a movie. then he says, is your roommie home? and i say, no. and he says, i guess i should call and invite her to come along... she emailed me the other day and told me she was upset about us not inviting her to the movie with us on tuesday.

    well, i wasn't going to bring it up, because the last thing i wanted to do was get between dave and donna's 12-year friendship. in my eyes, that came first. but since he brought it up, i confided in him about how upset she was and all that. dave said she was overreacting. i said, maybe, maybe not, but i still feel bad about the whole thing.

    so we agree i should call donna on her cell and invite her over to dave's. which i do. when i call she's at the hospital, holding her nephew in icu. we talk at length about his condition. then i tell her about the movie at dave's - she declines curtly and hangs up the phone. so i call dave back and say, shit, she's mad again, maybe you should call her. which he does, and she doesn't pick up, so he leaves a message.

    i get to dave's place and we get bundled up and walk the four blocks from his apartment to the movie rental place, we pick out the one about jack whatshisface the old gameshow host, and we walk back.

    we're hanging out watching the movie, drinking hot chocolate, when all of a sudden dave stops the movie and turns to me and says, you know, you can come sit over here on the couch with me if you want. and i'm like...


    huh. now, what exactly is that supposed to mean? i sit there and sort of stare at him a little too long, trying to decipher the meaning of the sentence. and suddenly a light goes on and i think, oh my god. oh my god. this is a like a date. he wants me to be on the couch with him.

    so i smile and say, yeah, okay, that sounds good.

    i go sit on the couch and he scoots over to sit right up against me and pulls me really close into him and sort of snuggles with me. the movie starts up again.

    when the movie ends he leans over and kisses me. it was a nice, sweet, gentle kiss.

    i say to him, so, i have to tell you something. donna said just yesterday that Vanessa said that she talked to you about me and that you said you aren't interested in dating anyone.

    that's not what i said, dave tells me. what i said was that i didn't want to push anything, that if something was going to happen, i wanted it to happen naturally.

    i think to myself, "naturally" must have been tossed out the window real quickly when i started hanging out with dylan. it wasn't until dylan came along that dave started showing hints of romantic interest (to which i had been clueless).

    then dave tells me about how much pressure he's been feeling the last couple months because every single one of his friends in that group has approached him and asked him about me.

    i said, well, i had no idea you were interested in me at all until just tonight, when you asked me to sit on the couch with you.

    really? he asked. he sounded amazed by this.

    yeah really, i tell him. apparently you've got a serious poker face.

    i didn't stay the night that night, but we went out friday night and i stayed the night. we didn't see each other saturday after i left in the morning, but we hung out all sunday afternoon and i stayed the night last night.

    we haven't had sex or anything. we've already talked about it and agreed to wait a while.

    and as for dylan, he hasn't called. if he ever does call, i'd love to be friends with him. and even if physically speaking there's way more attraction and chemistry between us than between me and dave, i don't really care about all of that. not anymore. i'm 33, not 23. i don't have to make those mistakes anymore.

    dave's the trustworthy guy, the nice guy, the one who won't cheat on you, the one who will tell you like it is, the one who would be a great father. dave's the one who needs to give love as much as i do, if not more.

    it's going to work out with dave. you know how you know when you know? well, i know.

By heathre on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 04:36 pm:


By TBone on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 05:12 pm:

    I'm happy for you, sarah. Is donna OK with it all now that it's a date thing?

By semillama on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 05:20 pm:

    See? it's always darkest before the dawn.

    or Dave, in this case.

    That would have been even wittier if Dave had been a woman named Dawn.

    anyway, RIGHT ON SARAH!!!!!!

    And if this guy breaks your heart, we'll come down and kick his ass.

    ( you know I had to say that ;) )

By Antigone on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 05:59 pm:

    "dave's the trustworthy guy, the nice guy, ...

    it's going to work out with dave."

    yay! :)

    'bout fuckin' time! :P

By sarah on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 06:18 pm:

    the first thing i did when i saw donna on friday was ask her to sit and talk with me for a few minutes before she headed out for the night.

    i just want to let you know, i told her, that dave and i hooked up last night.

    donna smiled and said, i knew that was going to happen!

    and i said, What. The. Hell. Are. You. Talking. About. two mornings ago you were dishing to me the "Vanessa talked to Dave" story.

    well, after that dave said some things in an email to me, she said.

    donna was really friendly with me all day on sunday, until i told her i was on my way to dave's for the rest of the night. when i got home this morning, we passed ways, and she didn't say hello, good morning, go to hell, nothing. just left.

    so i don't know. i think it's going to be tricky for a while and i'm going to try really hard to be sensitive to her feelings. but i'm not going to walk on eggshells.

    everyone's making plan to get together tonight, it might be best for me to bow out until the dust settles.

By patrick on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 06:22 pm:




    is she now going to get all catty on you?

    I don't understand this possessive snotty behavior. You've done nothing.

    glad your're 'makin friends' though sarah, sounds slike a swell chap and right-O what sem said.

By kazu on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 06:58 pm:

    Didn't you say she was something of a drama-crisis queen? it sounds like exactly the kind of behavior I'd expect based on your previous description of her.

    Anyway, I am so happy for you, and this dave person sounds wonderful.

By wisper on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 08:12 pm:


By agatha on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 12:58 pm:

    Daves are good.

By sarah on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 04:37 pm:


    why suddenly don't i feel very good?

    i'm worried.

    it might be pms.

    it might be instinct.


    i used to have recurring "dave" dreams. each time the "dave" was someone different, but the plot of the dream played out the same way every time.

By sarah on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 04:39 pm:

    i'm scared. that's what it is. i'm waiting for the rug to pulled out from underneath me. for someone to pop out of the bushes and say "surprise! hah hah! joke's on you!"

By Antigone on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 04:44 pm:


    When you start feeling scared, breathe.


    And, hug him.

By patrick on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 04:51 pm:

    its the moon sugartits.

    last night, when i came home from work, usually the happiest part of the day (to see peanut gleam and kick her legs like a frog when i walk in) i all of a sudden got very nervous. ansy. i was even visably shaking at times. i don't undertand what brought it on because i didnt have any anxieties or worries that would cause such a reaction.

    when all other explanations fail, blame a full moon.

By sarah on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 04:51 pm:

    thanks, yeah, good advice. i'm trying.

    there's reason for it. every time i've ever really really liked someone and i was made to believe they liked me back and i had all this hope and happiness and i thought it was going to work out, it didn't. he changes his mind. it mostly happens within the first week or two.

    i feel like i'm going to barf up my tuna and green beans lunch.

By semillama on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 05:04 pm:

    Sarah, if it's any help, that's exactly what I was feeling right before Kazu told me she loved me for the first time.

By kazu on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 05:22 pm:

    yes, but I gave you a pretty good reason to freak out.

    Sarah, remember, he's known you for a while, at least long enough to know that he likes you a lot. He realized that he had better get his ass in gear lest he lose you to someone else. Even though it seemed to come on suddently, it sounds like he thought about it. So anyway, that's what I think.

By sarah on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 05:42 pm:

    true, but what if he likes the friend sarah but not the girlfriend sarah? those two people are slightly different in their behavior.

    i'm afraid i already did something to freak him out.

By kazu on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 05:47 pm:

    I know how you feel. For years, I didn't even know that knew there was a girlfriend kazu for anyone to like. Anyway, just take a breath. Relax, or at least do something to get that nervous energy out so you aren't a wreck when you see him again.

By Antigone on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 06:06 pm:

    Maybe you'll listen to kazu when she tells you to relax. :)

    You've got to ditch the speculation, fretting, and nervous wrangling. Just live for today...for right now...and don't worry about tomorrow.

    "But...but...BUT! What if..."

    Naw! Don't give me any of those shit excuses! Just do it!!

By heather on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 06:19 pm:

    if he's right, he won't freak out

    or at least he'll think better of it right away

By wisper on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 06:31 pm:

    sheesh, do some yoga or something.


By sarah on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 11:55 am:

    i'm a big retard.

    you all are right yet again. i have nothing to worry about.

    he already wants me to go to st. louis with him to meet his family and long time friends.

    plus i got my period last night, which absolutely explains why i was feeling so weird and irritable and moody. but not NEARLY as bad before the patch. it was barely anything at all. and no chocolate cravings! amazing!

    okay, so things are good. i'll try not to keep looking behind the bushes and just enjoy it.

    i swear i don't know how you people put up with me sometimes.

By kazu on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 12:27 pm:

    we love you. besides if everyone were sane and rational that would be awful.

    Sorabji-ite #1: I think this, this and this, and also this.

    Sorabji-ite #2: Well, I disagree with you. I think this, and this is why.

    Sorabji-ite #3: This is my brilliant take on it, which is is somewhere in the middle, but clearly makes #2 look somewhat irrational.

    #2: Well I suppose we could bicker, but why don't we just agree to disagree?

    #3: I think you are right, good day old chap.

    #1: right now. cheerio.


    I don't like it when things get out of hand though.

By Spider on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 12:32 pm:

    But things are so exciting when they get out of hand!

By sarah on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 12:32 pm:

    oh, and another thing. my instincts were right on.

    dave told me last night that he didn't think too much of it the night he and donna and i were out after the movie when i went to sit with dylan and talked to him until last call. but dave confessed that he realized how he really felt about me the night of the pumpkin carving party, when he saw dylan and me hitting it off so well. he said he had a lot of trouble sleeping that night, and when he got up in the morning he said to himself, "dave, don't be a chump" and decided to go for it.

    so after he confessed that, i told dave that when i told donna about us hooking up, she asked me, "what about dylan?" and i said, "what about dylan? i'm with dave. game over."

By Spider on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 12:35 pm:

    I just know that, if I have to refrain myself from calling someone an idiot, it's a good thread.

    So Sarah, about your PMS...did you feel gross and bloated at all? That's recently become a prominent feature of my hormonal dysfunction, and I'd love to get rid of it.

By kazu on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 12:38 pm:

    I mean out of hand to the extreme, I guess.

    Sarah, he sounds wonderful. I want to meet him and go on double dates with you guys. "Double dates" that phrase feels so out-of-date, like brady-bunch era or something.

By patrick on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 12:39 pm:

    By Spider on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 12:32 pm:
    "But things are so exciting when they get out of hand!"

    yeah right, coming from the queen of living on the edge.

    if i could make one of those emoticons where i stick my tongue out at you, i would.

By Spider on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 12:40 pm:

    : alt-0222


By TBone on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 01:02 pm:


By semillama on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 01:08 pm:

    Dulce! (as Pepito would say)

By TBone on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 01:10 pm:

    Everyone needs a trained sex midget. But only if it doesn't speak english.

By Spider on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 01:23 pm:

    ¿Don't you mean ¡Dulce! ?

By sarah on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 01:27 pm:

    kazu, you and sem really should come to austin, if not for sorabjifest, then just for fun. come for the music and the food. and a double date.

    ewwwww. that sounds way too gooby.

By Spider on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 01:27 pm:

    (Now how come the other symbols just give me that &#9786 garbage?)

By TBone on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 01:30 pm:

    What weirdo browser do you use?

By sarah on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 01:31 pm:

    spider: i shit you not girl - no bloating. none whatsoever! and not a single chocolate craving, outside of the normal day-to-day desire for chocolate that i can keep in check. no bottomless, insatiable appetite that always comes before my period. in fact, i've lost quite a bit of weight in the last month because my appetite overall has finally returned to normal. very little moodiness, just a very slight irritability and insecurity.

    you really should just give the patch a try. i highly recommend it.

By Spider on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 02:11 pm:

    By God, I think I will.

By Lapis on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 02:54 pm:

    Yay double-dates! (I met one of my favorite people on a double-date... things didn't go much longer with the boy I was seeing after that, but I remained friends with the other two)

    I'm happy for you, Sarah. Sounds like something good.

By wisper on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 06:36 pm:

    no moodiness at all?
    you mean you don't start crying and feeling like you should kill yourself because some fruit went moldy?

    i gotta get me this patch.

    what the difference? lower hormones?

By kazu on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 07:43 pm:

    maybe I should too. why not? though having something stick to me for a week seems kind of icky.

    Anyway, I want to come to austin in May but that can be a really stressful time in kazuland. i'd love to go to austin otherwise. fun fun fun

By patrick on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 12:24 pm:

    hey might as well sign me up too. im tired of being moody.

    does it address (beer-induced) bloating as well?

By sarah on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 01:04 pm:

    i was a little irritable maybe a little on monday night and a little on tuesday, and obviously a little freaky about the dave situation. but honestly, it was nothing at all like i usually get. usually i get so completely depressed, crying, feelings of worthlessness, life sucks, why am i even here, etc. and that would last for like a week.

    my first patch kinda freaked me out because it fell off a day early. but i was rubbing my lotion on my body without being careful. i was careful the second week to avoid that area with lotion, and it stayed on fine, it stayed on the extra day i needed it to, to make up for the day the first one fell off.

    i wear it on my lower abdomen where i don't have any feeling in my skin anyway (from the surgery) so i don't notice it's there.

    what i don't like about it is that it gets dirty around the edges of the patch, like a bandaid would. it's a little gross, but not too bad. also, when you remove the patch, there's a slight redness to the skin at the outer edges of the patch, but the skin under the patch is fine.

    they say you can wear it on your booty, upper arm, or abdomen. i definitely would not wear it on my booty, but that's just me.

    anyway, i never could tolerate birth control before. it always fucked me up: made me fat, bloated, cranky, and have zits (the perfect birth control if you think about it, right?). and it used to make the week off the pill even more horrendous than my already debilitating pms.

    the patch doesn't do any of that to me. it's made everything better. the appetite thing is what i enjoy the most. i am no longer totally obsessed with food or have a constant sense of hunger, and i pass the chocolate candy bowl without even thinking a thing of it.

    i don't know if it works as well for everyone, but my doctor told me that a lot of women who are intolerant to the pill often have success with the patch.

    please let me know if you try it!

By sarah on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 01:19 pm:

    wisper, i think the main difference is that it's transdermal, rather than ingested - which means it doesn't pass through your liver or kidneys. also, it contains both estrogen and progesterone, as opposed to the newer "lower dose" pills that contain only progesterone. those "lower dose" ones fucked me up even worse than the older pills, like ortho-tricycline.

By heather on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 01:39 pm:

    i am so happy for you sarah [and everyone
    else that this would help]

By sarah on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 03:09 pm:

    mind if i show off my new boyfriend? :)

    From: David <>
    Date: 2003/11/13 Thu PM 12:40:29 CST
    To: sarah
    Subject: congrats!

    i guess by now your presentation is over and you are feeling like a big weight has been lifted off your shoulders. how'd it go? do you feel good about it? i'm sure you did great, you're a smart cookie. reply and let me know, or feel free to call me at work 555-7866 (you can do that anytime actually). i hope everything went great. i miss you,

    he misses me, and i just spent the night at his house tuesday. either i'm totally whipped, or i'm really easy to please.

By Antigone on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 03:23 pm:

    You used a 555 number. It's just like a m00vie!

By semillama on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 04:29 pm:

    It snowed today! and Sarah has a sweetie! Yippee on both counts!

By wisper on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 06:15 pm:

    let's all go on the patch!
    even the menfolk!

    it'll be like a book club, but for birth-control.

By TBone on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 06:51 pm:

    I'll take two!

By sarah on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 07:09 pm:

    i'm starting my second cycle on the patch. i put on a new one yesterday, and so far no nausea.

    and for the record, i'm so head over heels in love right now it's ridiculous. dave and i are both crazy for each other. it's wonderful and delirious and a little scary, but fun.

    this could be it. i feel like it might be it. i know it's only been a couple weeks, but still. it's never been like this before.

By kazu on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 07:12 pm:


    I'm so happy for you.

By patrick on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 07:18 pm:

    hows that happily fucked grin holding up?

By Nate on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 08:04 pm:

    when was the first date that you judge this couple of weeks by?

By Testor on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 08:29 pm:


By spunky on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 09:34 pm:

    You have failed.
    Please try again.

By sarah on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 10:57 am:

    funny you should ask. he says our first date was halloween. but i didn't know we were going out on "dates" until the following thursday, when he asked me to come sit with him on the couch and then he kissed me.

    but we've been friends since august.

    we like to sit around and hash out all the details of us finally getting together, what each of us had been feeling and thinking during certain events since august. we think it's fun, but i'm sure if anyone else heard us talking they'd think we were sickening. heh.

    we didn't stay together last night. first time since last wednesday night. i had a hard time sleeping.

    i get the feeling that both of us privately think we should feel like it's too soon to "know", and i'm sure we'll have that talk in the near future, but he and i are completely on the same page. it's just fear, i guess, or calculated caution - ghosts of past relationships whispering in my ear "it's too good to be true". but everything he says and does drowns out voices.

By Nate on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 02:37 pm:

    i hear those voices. goddamn those voices.

    i kissed this girl on october 27th. i second guess everything i feel for her.

    i want to let go and be swept up and trust the universe to take care of me. but i quiver like a beaten dog.

By Antigone on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 02:40 pm:

    The universe is taking care of your quivering.

    Live in your quiver.

By Nate on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 02:43 pm:

    he who lives in his quiver is likely to get arrowed.

By Antigone on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 02:55 pm:

    A quivering quiver delivers arrows over the river.

By Spider on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 03:00 pm:

    OK, let me get this straight.

    River = veil between material and spiritual planes

    Arrows = prayers; communication

    Quiver = soul

    Quivering = state of reflecting upon one's soul

    Do I get a gold star?

By Antigone on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 03:03 pm:

    Whatever floats your boat. :)

By Nate on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 03:07 pm:

    you get a mushroom tattoo.

By TBone on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 03:09 pm:

    Bow-Arrow-Quiver = holy trinity
    River = uh... heaven. Or hell. or maybe the border
    Quivering = ...shit. Um...

By Spider on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 03:17 pm:

    Hehe, nobody gots symbology skillz like da Spidah.

By Antigone on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 03:48 pm:

    Fo fizzle yo symashnizzle!

By Spider on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 04:10 pm:

    (I have an in-company wedding shower for a coworker in an hour, and I'm getting a stabbing headache, and I would really like to bail and go home, but I can't because my absence will be noticed, but I really don't want to go, and I don't want to work, and I want to go home and move out of my apartment and move back to PA and get into grad school and read all day and learn exciting things and live a completely new life. Please, God.)

By sarah on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 05:37 pm:


    without constant reassurance i too quiver. any bit of affection i give or any admittance i make, if it is not returned exactly in quantity or quality, i quiver.

    it's all on the inside, of course. the quivering goes away after a while. when the relationship has made it through a certain period of time or has withstood something potentially hazardous.

    sometimes i feel as if i try *too* hard not to be clingy. not that i feel clingy, because i don't, i just am afraid that certain things i say or do could come across as clingy, when all i'm doing is just being myself, being openly loving.

    it'll be okay after a while.

    he noticed the scar and the funky belly button, of course, and i told him i had reconstructive surgery. he asked, "shark bite?" and i laughed, and said yes! i said, it's a long story, i'll tell you about later.

    that was a while ago - but we got through the whole body talk fairly effortlessly about two nights ago. he told me he loved my legs, and mentioned how strong the muscles look. in reality, my calf muscles are almost unnatural looking, they're so big and well-defined. people comment on them all the time. i said, yeah, i know, they're almost freakish.

    then i told him about body building, about having been obese, about losing a 125 lbs, why i had surgery, explaining why my body looks the way it does. i said, i'm sure you've noticed how messed up my skin is in many places. and he said, no, actually i only noticed the scar, but thought it was a tan line at first.

    much later that evening when we were lying in bed he asked me, was it hard for you to talk to me about your surgery? i admitted it was, but also told him that it used to be a really big deal and i used to obsess and worry about it, but now it just seems like something i need to explain, nothing more. it's not an "issue" to me anymore. i asked him if it was hard to hear, about me being fat, etc. he said no, people go through all kinds of different stuff.

    that was pretty much the end of that.

By heather on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 06:24 pm:


    i feel priviledged to have met you pre-scar

    when i tell people that i'm mental and they
    should run away they never believe me

    [well, eventually they do :) ]

By moonit on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 03:11 am:

    Paul (a guy at work) told me that one of our other workmates (we work with a heap of sales rep(tiles) had asked him about me... as in... how come you like her... she's a pretty big girl.

    He wouldn't tell me who it was, (although I reckon I know) I'm gonna give her the bash the next time I see her in the toilet.

    People suck.

By 8 on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 03:39 am:

    does 'give her the bash' mean something other than 'tear her clit off and feed it to her" ?

    i hope it doesn't.

By semillama on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 11:27 am:

    shark bite - that's fantastic. that's just fantastic.

    The whole thing about feeling it is all happening too fast, I felt that too with Kazu, and I also had the "quivers" except they could have measured 6.5 on the richter scale. It really didn't take long at all for us to fall in love with each other - maybe a month or less.

    I get to see her in a week!!

By Antigone on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 12:11 pm:

    My quiver instinct seems to be fucked up. A couple of years ago I realized that, whenever I had the quivers, the woman I was quivering over ended up being cruel and manipulative.

    So I left the quivers behind and found myself a great woman. With her I get the warm shivers. It's more than enough. :)

By sarah on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 12:19 pm:

    yeah, wow, that just reminded me. i remember lying in that single bed with you and showing you how it looked, or maybe asked you to be a witness to what at the time i considered to be a gross disfigurement. or something like that.

By sarah on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 12:21 pm:

    moonit, i hope "give her the bash" means grabbing that bitch by the hair and shoving her head down an unflushed commode.

    people are so... godfuckingdammit. stupid and ignorant and mean. and insecure. and petty.

By sarah on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 12:32 pm:

    you know, and why would that coworker of yours even tell you something like that? even that's fucked up.

By Spider on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 12:42 pm:

    Yeah, was Paul being a bitch, or was he laughing at the other bitch for being such a bitch? As in, "Moonit, you and I both know you are a fox on wheels, but get a load of what this bitch said about you. Ha ha, what a bitch."

By sarah on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 01:17 pm:

    see now, even that's fucked up to me. there is no reason for Paul to pass that bile on to anyone else. he should have just told the other girl to shove it and leave it at that.

By moonit on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 01:41 pm:

    Yeah but me and Paul were having this weighty (heh) conversation. I've got this ww 'I've lost 5 kilos' bookmark on my computer and I was telling him how two of the reps came up to me and one said 'hey I saw that thing on your puter, thats so fantastic' and the other (the one I think said that shit to Paul) said really sarcastically 'yeah well done'. She's a mole, but her and Paul get on really really well - thats why I figure its her. I didn't tell him who my reps were, and he didn't say who his was.

    Fucking gossip central.

    I think it will be interesting to see what happens as I get thinner, who will treat me differently.... people are just fucked up really.

By moonit on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 01:43 pm:

    I should add that by this stage we'd had several tequila's.

By sarah on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 01:50 pm:

    how many points is a shot of tequila? ;)

By moonit on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 02:15 pm:

    one per nip. Kahula and Baileys and those kind of creamy things are 1.5 I think? or two?

    none for the lemon and none for the salt though.

By Antigone on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 02:54 pm:

    "I think it will be interesting to see what happens as I get thinner, who will treat me differently.... people are just fucked up really."

    Yeah, it's sure to be an interesting odyssey. In my case, I thought I'd be scornful and say "fuck you" to anyone who treated me differently, especially women who hit on me.

    Didn't happen. Women hit on me and I fucking loved it.

    I rebounded back from 210lb to 270lb. (123 kilos) Women don't hit on me anymore, but I don't care.

    If this is your first big weight loss, the most important thing to lose is your anger and anxiety about how others react to you. For me that took losing the weight and seeing how other people changed their behavior. Women who I'd known for years, who had always basically ignored me, started giving me attention. I saw how shallow they were being, and so I could stop caring about their reactions.

    But I also saw the same shallow behavior in myself. I began using my new looks to influence and manipulate people. So I came to understand, from the inside, the intoxication of appearance from the other side of the fence.

    Now I'm back down to 260lb, thanks to the lo-carb, dropping about 2lb per week. Hopefully, this time around, I can be both svelte and wise. :)

By The Watcher on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 03:43 pm:

    Good luck sarah:-)

By moonit on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 01:22 am:

    My loser magnet is back. I don't know what it is, but wherever I go, the loser to end all losers at that particular place will come and talk to me.

    The other day I was sitting in the alley outside work reading and this guy stopped.

    He's in his 50/60s with a HUGE belly.

    'Good book?'
    'Ye-' (can't get the full word out as he has to continue)
    'Bet you its not as good as the love affairs I had in 1951!!!!'
    'heh yeah' (hanging head hoping he will get the fuck away)
    'I worked in that bar there, and I tell you I would come stand in this very alley, and women would come on to me - I had more women than I had hot dinners'
    'cool' (fuckoff fuckoff fuckoff)

    He fucks off.

    Or the other weekend, I was at the speedway (deep down I am such a bogan chick), and I was standing, watching a smash, and this guy stops, turns, looks me up and down and says 'Hullllloooooooeee' and takes off.


By moonit on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 01:23 am:

    Antigoneburger - you shallow man... heh. I think I may be the same... I guess I'll find out when I get there.

    (check out that positive thinkin)

By sarah on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 05:18 pm:

    i am in love.

    i just wanted to say it here.

    this is the most stress-free, drama-free, fun and affectionate and healthy relationship i've ever been in. and the sex is fanfuckingtastic.

    i don't even feel weird that we didn't see each other last night and won't see each other again tonight. i don't feel weird when we see each other five nights in a row.

    it's just all good.


    and i can write about it, because it can't be jinxed. you can't jinx the real deal. that's what i figure.

By eri on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 05:44 pm:

    Congratulations Sarah. I am so happy for you. I knew you deserved this, and wish you all the best....but you are going to have to bring him with you to San Antonio now!!!!!!! Oh, wait, you still haven't made it out here......

    I will have to let you know when I head out to Austin next, too.

By kazu on Thursday, November 20, 2003 - 06:01 pm:

    I am ridiculously happy for you Sarah.

By The Watcher on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 02:20 pm:

    Details!!! Details!!!!

    I want all the details!!!

    I'm living vicariously here.

By sarah on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 06:11 pm:

    i don't know what to tell you. you'd have to ask me specific questions.

    hmmm now who do i sound like?

By patrick on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 06:36 pm:

    i thought i knew love.

    then i had a daughter.

    i've come to realize i didnt know love, at all.

    what a selfish ass i was.

    if i could find the thread(s) in which i proclaimed I wouldnt have children, i'd love to seep in my idiocy.

    don't me get wrong. im not becoming a pesky pro-breeder intent on spreading the gospel.

    I just think many who seem to go out of their way not to create a child, or at least proclaim as such, miss out on something that can barely be described in words.

    I wish i could stepped back in time to tell myself to just shut up for a minute as I really had no clue.

    not that i have all the clues now, but as every day passes i pocket one or two more.

    part of me still wants to write it off. emotional associations that is. strangers' children in public, when not with my own, makes me near weepy and longing to get home.

    this morning, driving into work, down a side street in hollywood, i saw this man walking his two daughters to school. they were about five feet behind him toting their backpacks on wheels. he turned to them and took his cane to the air, pointed it at them and even started to raise it as if to slash them. i saw what appeared to be the older of the two flinch as if that wasn't the first time. the youngest didnt move and kept her eyes on her dad. my tires screeched as i came to a stop. that got their attention. primarily his. the two girls left one eye on their coward of a dad. my hand itched on the door latch. i watched. waited. i was this - close to getting out of the car, grabbing my skateboard and beating this man down.

    would i have done that two years ago? maybe. chances are though, i wouldnt have noticed this scene going 30mph down a hollywood side street at 8am.

    back to love.

    Im only now learning it.

    its hard to really grasp, i think, if you don't have any children. The ache in your heart grows so much and is triggered much more readily (see incident this morning). Its not something you are given upon the birth of your child. You have to get to know them. Learn their nuiances, smell their poop, wear their puke, and bless their smiles with your own.

    Her cozy sighs and smacking of tiny lips when she's falling back asleep. the warm soft fingers that prod my nose and mouth when she wants me to wake up. the brightness of her eyes, still covered in sleep, when she sees your eyes open. that smile. good morning daddy. i let her crawl over and on top of mom, who is still asleep. clutching and climbing on top of her, taking strands of hair with her. mom releases an initial groan but replaces it with soft hushed "hello" as she realizes what i realized moments earlier.

    the quirky gasp of air and expelling of a laugh/squeel when you surprise her with something delightful. her incessant giggle when i nibble her damn cute chin while we 'roughhouse' on the bed. the big-eyed anticipation as she waits me for me to decide on the next animal in Old McDonalds menagerie. I admit to not really knowing what kind of a noise or greeting a giraffe, baboon or muskrat makes but she doesnt seem to mind my improvisations.

    These types of things were never as intense with my wife as they are with my child. Not to say they are any less valid. Obviously reproducing produces a different set of triggers and connections unavailable in your typical romance.

    My love with my wife is fundamentally strong. Always has been. It suffers set backs for sure, but realistically and fundamentally its solid. To say anything of the otherwise is just me being moody. If she were to leave me tomorrow, Id still attest to this. Sometimes everything can be right and still go wrong. You can make every play, ever move, have every whistle blown in your favor and still lose the game.

    I saw the title of this thread and I've been in a strange place and felt the need to spill.

    and also free sarah off the watcher hook.

By The Watcher on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 06:38 pm:

    Simple. Tell us everything.

    Of course like most human beings I want the juiciest bits.

    Don't you hate that about the human race. We want to know all the most intimate details of everybodyelse. But, then we want our privacy.

    That's why news rags like the enquirer and the sun thrive.

By The Watcher on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 06:44 pm:

    No way.

    patrick, sometimes I envy you.

    But, just some.

By Antigone on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 06:52 pm:

    "I wish i could stepped back in time to tell myself to just shut up for a minute as I really had no clue."

    patrick, we must have been channeling you. :P

By kazu on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 06:56 pm:

    Thank you for that Patrick, it was beautiful. And it doesn't have to be pro-breeder. I don't think you have to create a child to have that kind of feeling. Having your own kids has its own magic, but I don't think the love that parents have for adopted children is any less intense. I think having a little person's entire well-being in your care makes that happen.

    At least that's how it appears to me, I have no first hand experience. My favorite professor here talks about motherhood with a passion and frankeness that is amazing and also humanizing. She romanticizes nothing, but its nevertheless inspiring.

    Dave Barry, of all people, has a great article about the intensity of that kind of love. It's both touching and hilarious--a description of when his son got hit by a car. I don't think it's just the particular kind of feeling, it's that it changes how you see the world, and I've never heard of anyone describing romantic love that way. I mean, falling in love with someone can make you more optimistic about things, but do you really start relating EVERYTHING you see back to your significant other the way people do with kids?

    and watcher...ew.

By kazu on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 06:58 pm:

    frankness, not frankeness

    I just don't want anyone to think that she employs some kind of al franken rhetorical style in her discussions of mothering.

By Nate on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 07:05 pm:

    that was beautiful, patty.

    i am not opposed to having children, but i am apprehensive of the idea. sometimes i get the baby fever, slightly, mildly. but then, i have issues- like thinking all babies are ugly. they get cute eventually, but from 0-6 mos they are like ugly little aliens. that worries me. as if i am missing some vital gene, where when most people are saying 'oh my god, he is sooo cute!" i am thinking 'oh jesus, get that red faced, stinky, lactose drooling, freakish parasite away from me.'

    in other news, sometimes i feel like sarah and i have the cosmic equivelance of female roommates with clockwork menses.

By kazu on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 07:09 pm:

    but eva was cute right away! maybe yours will be too.

    my cousin was cute right away but that's because she was birthed by c-section and was about 12 pounds.

By patrick on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 07:09 pm:

    see watcher, even when you aren't trying, you creep ME out and I don't creep out.

    ive never adopted so I can't say for sure butI don't doubt the love is any less of an experience.

    however, i do BELIEVE that there is something that connects me, my wife and my daughter together that simply can't be reproduced. im speaking on a biological/spiritual level. There has to be. We're too complex a being not to be.

    likewise, I also believe biological synergies could perhaps be forged too.

    pay no mind though, im just in a strange mood and espousing these ideas as if I really have a solid grasp on what im saying. i do and i dont

By kazu on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 07:11 pm:

    besides, I know you know that YOUR baby no matter how alien-lizard-like will be adorable to you.

    I saw a baby the other day whose head was still kind of cone-like from the trip down the bc, but he was still cute, just in his littleness.

By patrick on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 07:16 pm:

    maybe its this Zepplin im listening to, triggering some residule pockets of acid laced seretonin from high school or something.

By kazu on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 07:17 pm:

    when i think of everything my other professor went through to adopt this little girl from guatamala...that kind of stress and dedication...that has to produce something enormous. And Irene is pale with blue eyes and Miriam is dark dark dark and when I see them, I have to stop myself from saying, "she looks like you" not because it's habitual, but because they do somehow resemble each other. It's weird.

    Funny, my mom's friend has one adopted and one bio son and the adopted one looks more like her physically than the other one who just looks exactly like his dad.

By kazu on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 07:19 pm:

    it's lovely patrick. cut and paste your posts and put that shit in her baby book. if you don't. ima gonna give it to her when she's one of my brilliant college students.

By Antigone on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 07:44 pm:

    I've held babies before, but didn't get the bug.

    When I held Zachary, I was hooked.


    Now I've got the baby bug.

By patrick on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 07:53 pm:

    how's the lil bugger doing btw?

By wisper on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 12:45 am:

    "i am missing some vital gene, where when most people are saying 'oh my god, he is sooo cute!" i am thinking 'oh jesus, get that red faced, stinky, lactose drooling, freakish parasite away from me.' "

    two thumbs WAYYY up

    "what a selfish ass i was."

    how so, patty?
    do you mean that if you could go back in time now to before you had your kid, you would be a totally different person and live some kind of selfless life?

By beta on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 01:53 am:

By TBone on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 02:38 pm:

    "Police said investigations were underway but it was not clear what prompted the babies to attack."
    How cool is that?

By sarah on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 12:21 pm:

    you're right nate. so what's her name?

    dish, boy.

    i would say wait at least half a year before you ask her to marry you, except that i don't think it'll even be that long for me and dave.

By semillama on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 12:26 pm:

    wow, really?

    it must be nice to live in the same city as the one you love...

By sarah on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 02:28 pm:

    it is, and i'm sorry that you and kaz have to deal with the long distance thing. when are the two of you going to be able to put an end to that once and for all?

By kazu on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 02:39 pm:

    I have at least another three and a half years of school, maybe four and a half. Although when I am finished with course work and teaching, I can probably spend more time up there. If my fifth or sixth year is a teaching fellowship, then I will have to be here for that.

    My tummy hurts.

By semillama on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 02:43 pm:

    and i know I most likely won't be able to find a comparable job in the Atlanta area with my level of experience too, so I need to stick around up here to A. pay off debt and B. accumulate enough experience to be able to find work at the same level elsewhere.

    it just makes it all that much more significant when we do see each other.

    like tomorrow.

By patrick on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 03:00 pm:

    have you tried testing the market sem? i can't imagine your level of experience would disable you from finding comparable work.

    thats the best way to increase your income anyway....leapfrogging from job to job.

By semillama on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 04:53 pm:

    The job market isn't that good that I can just abandon a job with all the benefits I have accrued, plus like I said, I don't have enough experience to really get hired at the same level down there, where they'd be looking for someone with a much greater level of regional experience than I have. Plus, no one is looking for principal investigators right now anyway. You're going to have to trust that I know what I'm talking about. In all reality, I got damn lucky to get the position I'm in now. Pretty much anywhere else I'd likely be a crew chief...

By sarah on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 04:57 pm:

    have i ever told you that having a lot of sex makes me constipated? nothing stops me up like getting laid every day. it's really, really bad. i've had the last two days off since dave's been sick w/ the flu, and today i finally took a shit for the first time in at least five days, maybe more. and it just won't stop. every couple hours i gotta run to the potty. it's annoying but also quite a relief.

    does that happen to anyone else?

By patrick on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 05:18 pm:



    i think sarah wins the "left feeling uneasy" post of the day.

By sarah on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 05:19 pm:

    btw, i'm going to be away starting now until monday, maybe online once or twice if that...

    so if i don't talk to y'all, have a safe and happy thanksgiving! mmmmwah!

By semillama on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 05:50 pm:

    you too, sweets!

    Hope you become regular before Thursday!

By The Watcher on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 02:58 am:

    I don't even want to think about it.

By kazu on Wednesday, December 3, 2003 - 09:08 pm:

    I cried tonight watching TV because there was wedding stuff on.

    How did I get so soft?

By semillama on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 09:58 am:

    <raises hand>

By sarah on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 01:45 pm:


By sarah on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 03:27 pm:

    in case anyone is wondering, things with dave are still unbelievably, unrealistically wonderful. we just keep having more and more fun, and growing closer and closer every day.

    my roommate, on the other hand, is a total psycho. but i don't really need to discuss that.

    dave's dad called him while i was over last night. he and his step mom were both asking dave lots of questions about me, which he was answering in front of me. it was so cute. "things are great," and "we're a really good match," and "she recently was promoted to Coordinator of Web Services," and "we'll be visiting hawaii next year," and "sure, we'll come out to visit, maybe next summer". they live in san jose.

    i also met one of his oldest friends last night, Crazy Ted, who just moved back to Austin a few days ago.

    dave and i are going to be apart for 9 days over the holiday. that's going to be interesting.

    unfortunately one of my three best friends in hawaii, Sandi (who is 3 days older than me) has been diagnosed with breast cancer and has to have a masectomy on the 23rd. our other two best friends will be off island for the holidays visiting family, and Sandi is an orphan. so i'll be spending my week there taking care of her. which is fine, i feel like it was meant to be. she, among others, were by my bedside for 6+ weeks while i was writhing in pain following the Gnarly Surgery. my point is, i'll be pretty preoccupied while i'm away. hopefully dave will be too and the time will go by quickly.

    and hopefully sandi will be okay. she had to have a liver ultrasound yesterday...

    anyone know what i should be prepared for following this kind of surgery?

By The Watcher on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 02:41 pm:


    She will be in a lot of pain. Emotionally as well as physically.

    I just hope they caught it in time. Thirty years ago my mother went through the same thing. Unfortunately hers was obviously discovered to late. We lost her in 1976.

By J on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 02:50 pm:

    I just found out last night my husband has colon cancer,he's going in the hospital next Mon.,I'm scared to death.

By Antigone on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 04:15 pm:

    Our hopes are with you, J. Good luck.

By Spider on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 04:28 pm:

    J, if it's any comfort, my grandfather had colon cancer 20 years ago, and he's still going strong today, at age 93. I'll keep you and your husband, and Sandi and Sarah, in my prayers.

By The Watcher on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 02:01 pm:

    Just keep your hope up J.

    Today they usually find these things pretty quick. And, then get them before it gets to far along.

    Good luck.

By sarah on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 04:13 pm:

    J, let us know how it turns out, what his prognosis is. my thoughts are with you, girl.

By sarah on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 12:12 pm:

    we have an unspoken routine every night before we fall asleep.

    he turns out the light and we snuggle facing each other; he holds me tightly inside his arms and pets my hair and kisses my neck. we drift in and out. then after some time i roll over away from him and we spoon; he fits snugly around me, and a curl my toes around his toes, which makes him chuckle every time. we drift in and out of sleep, until one of us rolls over - we both sleep on our stomachs. but our bodies maintain some form of contact throughout the entire night.

    he nearly always says something sweet before we fall asleep. a few nights ago he said, "i love this booty," while he patted my behind. or he says, "you feel so good" or as we snuggle he'll say, "yeah, now *that's* what i'm talkin' 'bout". the night before last he said, "i wish you were coming to st. louis with me."

    i'll often say, "this is the best part of my day."

    last night was a little different. i wore his boxers and his softest gray tshirt. he wore his sexy boxer briefs. he didn't spoon me, instead i was spooning him, and as we lay there, he said, "i feel so lucky." i replied, "i feel really lucky too. i've been so happy these past few weeks." "me too," he said.

    and so it may sound pretty trite or cheesy, but the truth is that i feel like for the first time in my life i really understand what it means to love someone. i feel like i know now know how relationships are supposed to be. and everything else about my life is exactly the same as it used to be, only now it all seems much, much sweeter.

By Spider on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 12:19 pm:

    It's cool how this relationship kind of came out of nowhere. There were no months of agony or angst leading up to it; it just happened.

By TBone on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 12:38 pm:

    That's awsome.

By sarah on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 01:17 pm:

    well the thing is, we got along really well from the first night we met. i had only been living at donna's for a week - we met at tom's birthday gathering at this little lounge club in the warehouse district. we talked about music the whole night; i told him i wanted to get turntables and learn to dj.

    i went to michigan for a wedding the following week. when i got back my roommate told me that dave asked about me several times while i was gone. we hung out a lot from that point on, never just us two, but with donna and her whole crew. we'd see each other several times a week, and always eventually ended up off in the corner hanging out and talking. but when i flirted with him, he gave me very clear Let's Just Be Friends vibes.

    which was fine. i liked him no matter what.

    i guess i was just so lonely and miserable, barely able to manage any sort of relationship with the ass doctor... and then i posted that thing above about if i don't find someone good to love very, very soon that i would wither up and die.

    and a few days later, dave started asking me out on dates. and i didn't even know they were dates.

    i wish i could make a list of all the ways we were compatible as friends - same sense of humor, love of music, similar careers, just an endless amount of things we both like to do and talk about. and then the romantic compatibility is just as good if not better. it's hard to describe. it's as if we are both tuned in to the same vibration. there's a simplicity. there's a notable absence of angst. and the more we learn about each other, the more love and admiration there is.

    i know there's probably going to be bad stuff that happens between us, someday. but right now i can't imagine what it will be. if a time comes when we do get on each other's nerves or disagree or get our feelings hurt somehow, i honestly can't imagine us having a fight because of it. fighting just doesn't fit in to the paradigm of how we relate to one another. we're both too calm and soft and gentle with one another, and we keep our sense of humor about us. i can imagine us discussing it rationally and calmly, and responding to each other calmly and with love and tenderness.

    i want to get this all down on the record now, so i remember.

By c on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 12:29 am:

    sarah, it's possible there may not be bad stuff. my husband and I don't fight. I can't think of a time we actually fought. we're lucky. you're lucky. you keep him.

    about a week ago I hung out with a couple other new wives. they were both a little hastier than I was about getting married, but I remember how they used to gush about how perfect their fiances were for them. now they talk about three-day-long fights without resolution.

    it's weird. that isn't supposed to happen, not to us, at least not yet.

By sarah on Thursday, December 25, 2003 - 03:47 am:

    that three-day-long fight stuff would have been my reality if i had ended up with kevin. i *can* imagine it happening, but only in a relationship where both people are very... what's the word? unfulfilled? angry with themselves? needy? more interested in what they have to get instead of what they have to give? i don't know. maybe they're just bad matches. people who love each other for possibly not the right reasons. or who don't really understand what it means to practice love.

    someone very wise on these boards once wrote that love isn't an emotion, it's an action.

    i'm glad to hear that you and your husband don't fight. i'd like to believe that this world contains couples who really do have that special something that makes them want to make the relationship work for the rest of their lives.

    it's xmas eve, and i typically don't celebrate xmas. but this year i've been saturating myself in the xmas spirit. i bought presents and wrapped them. i put up a big, real tree and decorated it.

    i'm in hawaii now.

    i've been away from dave for a few days, and it's been okay. i miss him, but i know he's going to call tomorrow. i know that he's in st. louis w/ his oldest friends, having fun, and telling them about me, telling them about the girl he's going to marry. i'm in hawaii doing the same thing. i know that these ten days apart are making our relationship that much stronger and solid. i know that we are going to be more in love and more convinced when we're both back in austin.

    i saw sandi today. she's strangely mobile, lucid, and spirited. i think she may be in shock.

    she showed me her breast... or lack thereof. i saw the skin and the bruise and the scar. she is completely flat on the right side of her chest. she's choosing not to have reconstructive surgery. she may get a prosthetic, but maybe not.

    i brought her trashy magazines, a good book, a Burts Bees facial kit, and bird bars. bird bars are these treats you can only get at this one natural foods store here in hawaii. they are nuts and seeds bound together with some sort of light, mild nougat and honey.

    there were six, seven, maybe even eight dozen roses all over her house. delivered from other friends were foods and drinks: banana creme pie, quinoa tabouleh, short bread, tofu salad, rainbow mochi squares, cashews, dates, apricots. the tangerine tree in the back yard had, literally, hundreds of ripe tangerines waiting to be picked. i took clippers and pulled down more than a hundred tangerines. our friends' baby girl malia was there, who chased the chickens in the backyard. we laid in her bed and talked about scars and disease, sex and love, dave and aaron, marriage and families, breast feeding, chemotherapy, newborn nephews.

    earlier that morning i got up and went with my friend randy on a hike up kualoa ridge. when we got the top we pulled out our cell phones and called our old, absentee hawaii friends who have since moved to the far corners.

    the waves on the north shore are 12-15 yesterday and today. randy went with ben to haleiwa to surf, while i was at sandi's house.

    tomorrow is christmas. i'm going to swim out to the flag in the morning, after going for a run with randy around kapiolani park. then i'll go to my dad's and give presents to my aunt and uncle. then we'll go to friend's house in kailua for dinner and boogie boarding.

    i drive around and wish dave was with me. i'm glad he's not with me, i'm glad we have this time to miss each other and appreciate each other. but i'm going to have to bring him back soon. i don't think anyone can really understand me, the biggest part of me, until they've come to hawaii with me to see this inextricable part of who i am, this piece of my history.

    i wish we could get married in hawaii, though i know it won't happen that way. we'll get married in austin, or maybe in new orleans. but probably austin.

    i got an email from my cousin, my dad's only neice, a day after i arrived in honolulu. i haven't told her or anyone except my dad one word about dave. her email began by thanking me for the xmas gift i sent her. then she wrote:

    "I hear wedding bells. Could they be playing for you my dear? I have a feeling a September wedding is in the offing."

    i can't stop thinking that this next year is going to the be one of the happiest and most exciting i've had so far. maybe because of love, maybe not. but i hope it is because of love.

    hope you all have a wonderful holiday season and a fun new years.

By J on Friday, December 26, 2003 - 02:14 am:

    This was a great Christmas for me too,I was in a pretty pissy mood,I think I mentioned on the WAYD board that Ryan had ripped us off big time,final tally over 9 thousand bucks,and some of my jewlery,my s/o gave me a guilt trip or he'd be in prison for 5-7 years mandatory,anyway I let him slide.Amee is nickel and diming me to death,not enough that I babysit for free,I buy diapers,juice,whole milk and things I don't need for him,sometimes medicine for full price,and she owes us money too,she doesn't appreciate it she will always be a creep and I have accepted it,and I'm sick of her too.But Heather I'm so proud of,she's really changed,I wish to God she wasn't so shy,but she was picked on all her life and no matter that she talks fine now and she's pretty,public school ruined her self esteem,if I had it to do over I'd have home schooled her or put her in a Catholic school.Spider is proof of how much better they are,don't forget I was in a Catholic reform school for a while and I saw myself.But this is what made my Christmas so merry,found out my husband had colon cancer,it happened so fast and I'm so Barney Fife,I was out of my mind,I seriously couldn't think straight,if ever I had a theme song it would be"I go to pieces" anyway heres what he's up against,he's got this growth a cancer growth in his colon,if the Dr, couldn't snare or lasso it just the right way it could have tore his intestines and he would have had emergency surgery and had 8 inches cut out of his colon but everything worked out best case except the antibiotics tore him up really bad,he's sensitive to medicine.One time he had a reaction to erethimiacin and we had to take him to a emergenscy room.We will have been married 27 years in a few weeks,he's my soul mate,I've known him since I was 16,he's the yin to my yang and I'd be lost without him.Anyway he's alright,they caught it in time,his dr. snared it,except for getting sick to his stomach from the antibiotic everything is alright,and so am I,I have my best friend.I know I have bitched about him here and my mom too,but only people you really care about make you mad,and I hope you can tell I loved them.I could have done this on the drunk board.Hehe,actually I was going to post something funny I saw on the internet but I'm having a senior moment.

By c on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 02:27 am:

    merry christmas and happy new year, j and sarah. best to you both, sweets.

By J on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 10:24 am:

    You too sweetcheeks:)I wonder if Sarah went to Costa Rica after all?

By sarah on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 11:55 am:

    please help:

    something is wrong with dave. or rather, something is up. i was out playing scrabble with friends last night, and when we got done, i called dave, and asked if i could stop by and/or spend the night (i was just a mile or so from his place) and he said yes, he'd love to have me.

    but when i got there something was awry. i didn't notice at first. i noticed when we sat down on the couch and i snuggled up next to him to get warm, which is totally normal for us, and he didn't put his arms around me and smooch me and stuff like he normally does.

    and so i sat there for a while and we talked and got caught up since we hadn't been able to talk since we spent tuesday evening together. i had met up w/ an old hawaii friend wednesay night and that night was scrabble night. but tuesday everything seemed fine. actually, it was more than fine, it was great, we had a great night together, even though i couldn't spend the night w/ him because i had to get up real early in the morning for an 8 a.m. meeting at work.

    but back to the topic: something was bothering him. i asked him, are you okay? and he said yes. and i said, that's not true, i can tell something is bothering you, what's up? he sort of hemmed and hawwed for a while and mumbled something about needing to get off his ass and find a new job and wanting to move from his little apartment, etc. i tried to get him to talk more about it, to share with me his feelings, and he kept changing the topic and i said, hey, you're changing the topic, and he said, well, i don't want to talk about it, and i said, oh okay, next time just say that and i'll leave you alone.

    and then i apologized for crashing his place so late and does he need some space, would he like me to leave? it would be okay, i said, i know how it goes, i wouldn't take it personally. but he insisted i stay.

    and then i noticed he hasn't shaved all week, which is very unlike him. but the boss is out of town and his project/contract is winding down...

    and then i noticed the gross amount of dirty dishes piled up in and around the sink. usually he washes them every day or every other day.

    we went to bed and he held me for a long time, an hour or more, and as i drifted in and out, i could tell he wasn't sleeping. and when i got up this morning i got the distinct feeling he didn't sleep well all night.

    so my question is this:

    clearly something is up. he doesn't want to talk about it. which is fine for a while, but won't be fine for more than a few days. i also feel like if we are in an intimate relationship, that he is somewhat obligated to share with me what is wrong (even if it has nothing to do with me at all), if it affects the way we relate to each other or if it makes me uncomfortable for a prolonged period of time. if he's depressed or anxious about work or life in general, or family stuff, or whatever, and it makes him pull away from me for a while, i feel like he owes it to me to try to explain how he's feeling and what's going on.

    do you think he owes it to me? how long do i wait for him to say something?

    i'm fighting the urge to panic and pull away. i'm wanting to do the right thing, to be patient and kind and understanding and supportive of his moods and feelings.

By kazu on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 12:22 pm:

    you're right, he should tell you things. But I would advise you to give him some time. I can't tell you how long...there is no set amount of time for appropriate intervention. Instead, see what happens. Maybe he was suddenly hit with a feeling of depression and needs to work it out in his own mind before he can share it. Maybe this has happened before and he's not only struggling with the emotions, but also how to share them with you.

    I know personally how hard it is to share my feelings with anyone (big ole talk about this with my therapist) especially while I am having them. I need time to sort things out. Or as my therapist has helped me understand, I need time to put a safe, analytic distance between myself and my emotions...not exactly that healthy, but it's how I operate.

    I think he knows you're supportive and loving and all of that so I would let it be for now and see how it affects you two.

    It seems to me, based on how he acted that he tried to compensate for being a little withdrawn and not immediately affectionate, which is good. He wanted you to stay and he held you, so it seems he's not trying to push you away.

By semillama on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 12:34 pm:

    It does sound like depression to me. And sometimes it's just impossible to articulate why you are feeling that way - Has he ever mentioned feeling like this before? Has he ever taken medication or seen someone for depression? I mean, if he does experience recurring depression without an outside cause (which is what it sounds like), that's something you need to be aware of and something he needs to make sure you are aware of.

    The thing is that with men, society has conditioned us to think that nto only is it not ok to be depressed, you can't admit to being depressed or seek help, because that would show you as weak and helpless. Socially unacceptable. So you need to keep that in mind as well, that he probably would like to talk about it but is struggling against acculturation. I had the same problem.

    So i waould say let him have some time to work things out in his head, but let him know that you are aware that's what he is doing/needs to do. Still keep in contact with him, plan to do things with him, maybe cook him dinner or help him clean up in the apartment. Just don't expect him to react normally in these everyday situations - he's having problems with that, so just accept how he acts for now.

    I would say that you can put a "time frame" on it for yourself - if he's not back to his old self after a couple weeks, he needs help, and that's when you should bring it up.

By Antigone on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 12:52 pm:

    My girlfriend is a lot like a guy, so I get this kind of behavior too. :)

    Yes, give him some space, but let him know that you are available and that you support him.

    "i also feel like if we are in an intimate relationship, that he is somewhat obligated to share with me what is wrong"

    Be careful of that. If he's in a bad place cracking him open might not be the best thing, for him or you or the relationship. Let him open up on his own. Be patient.

    "... if it affects the way we relate to each other or if it makes me uncomfortable for a prolonged period of time..."

    I don't mean this in a harsh way, but that's your problem, not his.

    "do you think he owes it to me?"

    You know, that's a hard question. I've got some unresolved, relatively major issues in my current relationship that have gone on for a year and more, and they mostly hinge on things my girlfriend won't tell me about. I think my girlfriend owes it to the relationship to let that stuff out because we're not a completely healthy couple until we can at least come to an understanding. But she doesn't owe that to me specifically. I get along fine without resololution or understanding. :)

    I've heard this said before, but there's really three emotional entities involved in relationships: two people and the relationship itself. Thinking about "the relationship" as something seperate helps both people distance themselves emotionally from what's a reaction to the outside world and what's a reaction to the other. That way they don't get all mixed up into an unholy shitpot of anxiety.

    "...I need time to put a safe, analytic distance between myself and my emotions"

    That's funny kazu, 'cause I've always thought that I have an unsafe analytical distance between me and my emotions. :)

By kazu on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 01:04 pm:

    "... if it affects the way we relate to each other or if it makes me uncomfortable for a prolonged period of time..."

    "I don't mean this in a harsh way, but that's your problem, not his."

    How is this not his problem? Without going into details, I'll just say that this is something that Sem and I have had to deal with. I think you're absolutely right about needing to look at the individuals apart from the relationship in order to make things work, but sometimes that's impossible. What is a relationship without the two people having it? And the level of emotional intimacy means having (for lack of a better term) an investment in someone elses well being. And I don't mean this in a co-dependent kind of way. But if someone's situation is hurting you, then you should be able to communicate that.

    Having been on the dave side of the equation quite a bit, there is a point at which I have to look at how my behavior affects Sem. Sometimes I need to be told; it's not easy.

    And there is a good and a not-so-good time to have these conversations, and when it's not a good time, that's when you have to take care of yourself.

By patrick on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 01:17 pm:

    not expecting your arrival, the dishes, lack of clean shave etc can be explained so i wouldnt recommend reading too much into any of that.

    make yourself available but in general backoff a bit. let him sort things out and come to you. you've made it clear that you are available.

    I dont even know the guy and i wouldnt run for the term "depression" yet. at least not in any clincal sense. the fact that you've made such an inquiry of this tells me that perhaps this is such unusual behavior. Even the healthiest of us go through a funk from time to time.

    that said, back off a bit and give him some space.
    not only will that allow him some time to figure whatever it is out, but might also serve as a subtle reminder that he might need you.

By kazu on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 01:31 pm:

    "might also serve as a subtle reminder that he might need you"

    yes. good point.

    also, your relationship is still relatively new. the example of sem and I dealing with my issues came much later. of course, it took me a long time to let these things come out. So if there are "things" to come out, you'll have to be patient.

By Antigone on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 01:32 pm:

    "How is this not his problem?"

    How something affects you is always your problem. Only you determine your emotional state. No one else can do that.

By Antigone on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 01:41 pm:

    "But if someone's situation is hurting you, then you should be able to communicate that."

    I agree with you, but you've got to be aware of when that communication serves you and when it serves the relationship. It's important to get beyond someone's situation "hurting you," at least in the short term, and try to help them.

By kazu on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 01:45 pm:

    Tig, that is so dismissive. I agree with the basic sentiment. However, if that "something" is your partner's emotionally self-destructive behavior then becomes both person's problems. I can't "determine" anyone's emotions other than my own, but I can certainly be held accountable for how I affect other people. We don't exist in a vacuum. How we experience emotions is often tied to relationships.

    Basically, if I am hurting someone I love, that is a problem I also have to deal with. And that person should be able to tell me so. That might make me feel worse, but that is not *always* a bad thing.

By Antigone on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 01:46 pm:

    "And there is a good and a not-so-good time to have these conversations, and when it's not a good time, that's when you have to take care of yourself."

    Kazu, you answered your own question!

    Silly woman. :P

    (Disclaimer: The "Silly woman" comment was intended to be humerous and meta ironic, and should not be taken as a literal sexist comment.)

    (Disclaimer disclaimer: The previous disclaimer should not be taken as pandering elitest intellectual navel gazing.)

By kazu on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 01:49 pm:

    I didn't ask a question, I just thought there was more to be said about your "harsh" statement.

    I am silly. Besides props to you for saying "woman" and not girl. plbbth

By Antigone on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 01:49 pm:

    Kazu, we're talking about a person being, possibly, mildly depressed and uncommunicative. I'd hardly describe what sarah's reported as "self-destructive" on dave's part.


By semillama on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 02:01 pm:

    You know what, you are all totally wrong.

    I thought about it some more, and came to the conclusion that Dave's behavior is strongly suggestive that he's been abducted by aliens and what you are dealing with is an evil robot clone. Attach him to a car battery while he's in "sleep mode" by clamping a set of jumper cables on his nipples. If his eyes light up and he makes a humming noise, you'll know he's an imposter and you need to attack him with a chainsaw immediately before he has a chance to react.

By kazu on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 02:01 pm:

    well, god forbid I take issues that come up on the board and move them in other directions or to a more extreme or big picture way of looking at it.

    i'm sorry. i won't do that anymore.

By Spider on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 02:06 pm:

    I agree with Antigone. When you're depressed or otherwise mentally unhealthy, knowing that your own suffering is hurting someone else only makes you feel worse and more withdrawn. In my case, it also makes me feel resentful ("Jesus, can't I take the time to care for myself without having to worry about you, too?"). Maybe that's just me.

By Antigone on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 02:08 pm:

    Holy jesus mary mother of gawd, kazu...

    I'm all for anything that involves nipples and electric shock.

By Spider on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 02:09 pm:

    Hey, everybody chill. I think most of us here have had experience with depression/anxiety, so maybe this is hitting too close to home.

By kazu on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 02:11 pm:

    Spider, it's not just you. But it's not that simple. I'd rather feel worse and become a little more withdrawn than have someone leave me. It's happened. I've driven friends away before. Last semester Yael actually confronted me about how worried she was and how difficult it was to be friends with me and that felt terrible. But it was better than alienating her completely. And it made me re-think HOW I was (or was not) taking care of myself.

By dave. on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 02:18 pm:

    this may be nothing more than a sad commentary on the state of my relationships past and present, but i don't think anyone is entitled to an answer when asked. that's more like owning and less like sharing. i mean you can certainly try to get an answer that suffices, even leveraging the request with threats of splitting up, at which point, maybe you should split up anyway. i think that if you're going to threaten to break up, you're already done. each party, at any given point in time, has the right to determine which personal feelings/thoughts will or will not be shared.

    all that said, it doesn't sound like sarah and senor ballz are in trouble. dude was in a funk.

    he be aiight.

By kazu on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 02:18 pm:

    Whatever. I know that I am very sensitive about some of these issues, but I thought that I could come here and talk about them in ways which are both personal and analytical. Obviously, I was wrong.

    Good bye.

By dave. on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 02:23 pm:

    aww, baby don't be like that. c'mon back, pretty pretty.

By kazu on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 02:29 pm:

    dave. you can be really cute when you want to be.

By kazu on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 02:29 pm:

    i'm sorry i overreacted.

By TBone on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 02:30 pm:

    I thought that's what you were doing, Kaz.
    Don't go goodbying us.

By TBone on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 02:31 pm:

    I have magically bad sorabji timing.

By kazu on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 02:37 pm:

    thanks. and i'm okay so I don't need more reassurance though it's nice


By patrick on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 02:52 pm:

    "i think that if you're going to threaten to break up, you're already done."

    i wish my wife would accept this idea.

    instead she deflects and says im not in love anymore. which is not true, ive just retreated into a shell because i can't be hurt anymore.

    today is not a good day for these matters and its ironic they've come up.

By kazu on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 02:54 pm:

    I'm sorry Patrick, I hope things work out.

By kazu on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 03:05 pm:

    "i think that if you're going to threaten to break up, you're already done."

    For the most part, agree with this. When I said I'd rather be held accountable than having someone leave, I was thinking more about anticipating the rift that could emerge in these situations. I've never understood couples who do the back and forth thing, either talking about breaking up or actually doing it. I understand "getting back together" instances but the whole cycle of talk with or without just befuddles me.

    hee. I said befuddles.

By J on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 03:45 pm:

    Patrick are you o.k.? I'm concerned,you have hinted some before today.

By patrick on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 03:56 pm:



    and yes, its an ongoing issue.

    the only thing different is the fact that im tired of opening myself back up, thinking she misspoke only to have it tossed in my face again a week later.

    im angry, im hurt and im tired of it. im this - short of breaking.

    on top of that the cold roulette that is commonplace in homes with cute babies and overly affectionate parents has stopped at my number. so i didnt sleep worth shit, my head hurts, and my throat is scratchy. there are about twenty other things stressing me out. but never mind that.

    there doesnt seem to be much anyone can do though.

    sorry, not trying to hijack your thread sarah. honest.

By J on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 05:07 pm:

    I wouldn't think too much about it Sarah,like Dave said he might have just been in a funk.

By agatha on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 05:38 pm:

    Do you people see what I have to deal with?

    That being said, I agree with Tiggy that we are responsible for our own feelings. I think that half of the time that I'm mad at Dave it's because I'm really mad at myself for feeling a certain way about something.

    Blah, incoherent. Must get ready for big school weekend now.

By agatha on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 05:39 pm:

    Patrick, having babies changes relationships dramatically. It will get better for you, I'm willing to bet money on it.

By wisper on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 06:08 pm:

    the thread's called 'Love' patrick, i don't think you're hijacking it.

    "i think that if you're going to threaten to break up, you're already done."

    good call.

    and i too think he is just in a funk.
    Can you sneak into his house and do the dishes?
    That would be neat.

By semillama on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 06:19 pm:

    you could also leave a bright floral bouquet in a new vase. nothing like a spot of color.

By J on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 06:37 pm:

    Or make him something speacial to eat,your good like that girl:)

By dave. on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 06:46 pm:

    "I think that half of the time that I'm mad at Dave it's because I'm really mad at myself for feeling a certain way about something."

    excellent. (a la mr. burns)

    one of the only perks of being a lifelong under-achiever is that expectations are set waaaay low.

    patrick, dude. agatha's right. eva needs you two to work it out.

By kazu on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 06:47 pm:

    Move away.

    Being in a long distance relationship has really helped
    to facilitate that kind of communication. It forced me into
    a new perspective.

    I'm kidding.

    Food is good. So is housework help. Chocolate.
    dimmed lights, soft music, body oil massages are good

By patrick on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 07:29 pm:

    admitted we have lots of other strains i havent really detailed.

    her work has consumed us, well, mainly her and im to pick up the pieces.

    the up coming Mercedes Benz Fashion Week has invited her to show her collection. an exclusive big time real deal runway show at the end of march. buyers, industry, press, celebs the whole fucking works. on top of that, she's started a new company that is mainly comprised of consulting and making money from her vast contacts. on top of designing her own line,she is doing the occasional freelance design gig for this other label. on top of that she does this bullshit work for the french company that is more on the financial side. the travel is bad this week and next week. she;'s been in vegas most of this week and heads to fucking france this week. likewise she's had a french colleage intown. i thought all her wars with the japanese were bad. the french are even worse. if i may generalize, they are some of the laziest, smelliest, sexist bastards i know. at least the japanese have a work ethic. this pig comes to town, giving her shit that she isnt doing enough and then boasts to a client how he only works 4 days a week. to top it off, her company car...this piece of shit mazda protege (never EVER buy a mazda) flooded one night this week. can you believe that, the engine compartment flooded thus sending about 4" of water on the floorboard on the driver side. what kind of car floods after a decent rain? not torrential, but decent rain?

    anyway, now im venting.

    the fact that her office is our breakfast nook is also a problem. she doesnt know when to turn off. we can't afford the nanny every single day, so most days she works well after 9pm because she gets so little done until i come home. so by the time the shorty is asleep, between 9-10, we might get a chance to eat something and maybe have a glass of wine otherwise my ass is heading off to bed because she doesnt get up early with the kid. i do. always. day in day out, weekends included. i havent been able to sleep in in almost a year. while thats not really a big deal, every now and then it would be a nice gesture and good for my health.

    something has to give soon.

    and dave, if there is anyone who would agree with you 10000000% if would be me. i grew up in an unstable home. she did not. nor am i the one throwing the gauntlet down on the relationship.


    things are nutty. this month has been a bitch.

    we're finally taking aggressive action against our credit debt. we're retaining a legal firm, not a debt consolidation firm.

    to top it off, the calendar hasnt been kind, two surprise airline tickets cross country hit me in the ass too.

    so....hell im rambling. sorry.

    dave, agatha, i wish you guys lived nearby. tonight would be the kind of night, eva and i would come over for popcorn, beer and playstation.

By kazu on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 07:50 pm:

    that work description makes my stomach turn.

    jeebus patrick, i'm sorry things are so stressful. I do wish you could visit agatha and dave. because i'd love to see the evacleoplay pictures. that would be so cute.

    i'm really loathing the french right now so no comment there. (But I have to defend the mazda. mine has never flooded. they should replace that shit...fuckers)

    but that's not the point, i'd give you a hug if i could.

By heather on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 09:21 pm:

    dear everyone

    take care of yourselves

By Rowlfe on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 06:02 pm:

    havent read anything but sarah's first 'what the fuck is up with this guy' post, so pardon if i have repeated anyone here

    sometimes when you're down it takes a while before you even know yourself what it is thats bothering you. The symptoms might all be there and you might know you're not feeling that great, but you still dont know what it is or you think its one thing when its really another..

    give it a bit o' time, or if you really need to get involved, start asking questions about things only somewhat related to that which you wonder if he's having trouble with. Like, "how's soandso at work?" "did you get this done?" "do you want to do (something he should want to do might might say no to if depressed) next week?"

    and that reminds me. if you want to play Cheer Bear, don't do shit that is trying to cheer him up right away, offer things for the next day or a couple days later, or talk about cool stuff you did last month or something... take the boy out of the 'now'

By semillama on Monday, March 1, 2004 - 10:42 am:

    It sounds like your wife needs to take a step back and assess her priorities, Patrick. It sounds like she's got WAY too much on her plate, especially with a baby in the mix. It sounds to me from your description that she's still operating as though there isn't a new family dynamic and taking on too much work. The consulting business sounds cool, but maybe she should drop or sub-contract out some of her other work. Have you considered marriage counseling?

    ps. I agree with Kazu on the Mazda thing. Is it still under warranty? that's just unheard of.

By J on Monday, March 1, 2004 - 11:39 am:

    Patrick Nico's workload and the baby isn't even a year old,it's wayyyy too much,you should wish I lived nearby,cause I'd babysit for free:)Really you two need more time for yourselves.She must be stressed as all hell,be there for her like you have been, this will pass.

By patrick on Monday, March 1, 2004 - 01:03 pm:

    well. granted im part of the problem too. granting no slack at all, and generally not being anywhere near pleasant to be around.

    she leaves for france and im making an effort to use this time to wash myself of the accumlated negativity and general bad vibes.

    get this.

    last night, she's talking with a colleague, someone she can trust in the french company and he reveals that there is a rumor going around that she is an alcoholic.

    when she went to france in september for a sales meeting, she got a nasty stomach virus and missed half the meetings over 3 days. that combined with the fact that in vegas last week she just got her period and was a bit woozy eating dinner at 10pm at night. combined who knows what else they've scrapped together, they think she is an alcoholic. how fucked is that? how much of a kick in the dick is that?

    i feel horrible.

    she also revealed to me that its obvious to some close to use that im not happy and in general im being a dick.

    conversations at 3am.

    while we probably need some counseling, i think a lot of the matters are pretty obvious. we need her income, unfortunately. and she's certainly not going to abandon the seeds of financial independence she's planted.

    its like the scene in the movies when a hob knob plane Indiana Jones is escaping in is heading down a make-shift hillside runway. he needs enough speed to get airborn. if he misses, he plummets off the cliff. we just need a little more speed then its smooth sailing. or so we believe.

    sem. the mazda is under warranty, but you know, this past week her phones lines had trouble and her fax machine crapped out. having time to take the fucking car in, while arranging for the ride, and the nanny to watch the kid or to do it on saturday aor hraw90j tfaiwejgyhoiw3\-6iWA3=069Iw3t9awuegoszdfi3u20965tkgzoirsdkvbsz:

    well. thats what it feels like to think about it. you're right. but its just one more thing. her company bought the car. cash. upfront from 3000 miles away. you KNOW they got a lemon. there have been things to go wrong already that should never go wrong in a year old car. its retarded but at the same time, its not ours.

    and we do need some time to ourselves j. for sure. we wish we had a grandma in the same county as us.

By sarah on Wednesday, March 3, 2004 - 01:52 pm:

    dave broke up with me sunday night. the reason was, <quote>it's so unbelievably great between us, but i can't understand how or why things seemed to have moved forward so quickly, and i'm just not sure, so let's just be friends</quote>.

    monday morning i drove down to port aransas, found a cottage 100 yards from the beach, immediately stumbled upon 3 guys walking out of the gulf in wetsuits carrying surfboards.

By semillama on Wednesday, March 3, 2004 - 02:11 pm:

    holy shit. I'm sorry sarah. I wish it could have worked out.

By kazu on Wednesday, March 3, 2004 - 02:17 pm:

    Breaking up because it's working out? That doesn't make any sense. What an asshole.

    I'm sorry Sarah.

By TBone on Wednesday, March 3, 2004 - 03:28 pm:

    He'll live to regret that.
    We love you, Sarah.

By kazu on Wednesday, March 3, 2004 - 04:39 pm:

    That is assuming he lives.

    <cracks knuckles and grins>

By Lapis on Wednesday, March 3, 2004 - 04:57 pm:

    Oh no!
    I'm sorry Sarah. You're in our hearts.

By sarah on Wednesday, March 3, 2004 - 05:21 pm:

    yeah, well.

By wisper on Wednesday, March 3, 2004 - 06:00 pm:

    holy shit, that's a low blow.


By Spider on Wednesday, March 3, 2004 - 06:07 pm:



    What the fuck is his damage?

By Platypus on Wednesday, March 3, 2004 - 11:06 pm:

    What a boner.

By agatha on Thursday, March 4, 2004 - 12:00 am:

    I think the girls here need to go put the smackdown on that foolish boy's ass.

    I'm sorry, Sarah. He's no doubt coming out of his delusional haze right now and going "what the fuck have I done?"

    You know I love you, babe. I have faith in your good karma catching up one of these days.

By wisper on Thursday, March 4, 2004 - 12:54 am:

    hey i just remembered.
    Rowlf broke up with me once, too.

By jack on Thursday, March 4, 2004 - 01:27 am:

    i am sorry to hear this, sarah.

    that is a strange quote. what the hell?

    keep it comin', love.

By jack on Thursday, March 4, 2004 - 01:33 am:

    and about port aransas, how did that trip go? i would have made that drive, myself.

By moonit on Thursday, March 4, 2004 - 04:30 am:

    what a wanker.

    sarah, move to christchurch. granted, its a long way, but we have a beautiful ocean, and I'm sure there are many kiwi boys who would love you.

By kazu on Thursday, March 4, 2004 - 09:39 am:

    "I think the girls here need to go put the smackdown on that foolish boy's ass"


By dave. on Thursday, March 4, 2004 - 01:22 pm:




By patrick on Thursday, March 4, 2004 - 02:14 pm:

    lets write a semi-threatening letter to Senor Ballz.

    imagine find out the girl you just dumped is involved with some sort of rag tag mafioso.

By kazu on Thursday, March 4, 2004 - 04:15 pm:

    Sarah, when he suggested being friends, what did you say? I think it's possible for ex's to be friends, however, let's say if Sem were to break up with me tomorrow with that kind of line, I would say no.

    I would say a lot of other things too.

    Now, that is not to say that there will never be any kind of friendly contact, but I would reject that proposition immediately.

    But that's just me.

    my heart aches for you.

By sarah on Thursday, March 4, 2004 - 05:45 pm:

    i love you guys. listen, it's going to be okay.

    he does regret it.

    he called and said he regretted it the second after i walked out the door sunday night.

    he said he regretted it even more deeply all day monday and tuesday when he didn't hear from me. i was in port aransas and didn't get his messages or emails until i got back.

    it totally freaked him out when he found out i was in port aransas.

    so he wants to have a "talk" tonight i guess, and explain what happened. i guess i'll learn what all of this "i'm not sure if you're the one" and "things moved too quickly" business was all about. i guess we're all entitled to a freak-out now and then.

    i'll report back tomorrow.

By sarah on Thursday, March 4, 2004 - 06:00 pm:

    oh, and the trip was great. port aransas is quite beautiful, despite everyone trying to convince me otherwise.

    on the drive down i remembered the name of a place where an aquaintence said she had stayed. when i got there i drove around and found it within 10 minutes. laughing horse lodge. little cottages of varying sizes, painted brightly, about 150-200 yards from the beach.

    i checked in, dumped my stuff offf, and headed down to the beach.

    there were waves! lots of waves! also, lots of humongous, gelatinous, dead jellyfish on the beach, about every 25-50 feet or so. it was weird. i went back, changed into my running gear, and headed back to the beach, where i ran 4.6 miles. i know it was 4.6 miles because there are mile markers every 10th of a mile along the sand dunes that protect the beach. the beach is 18 miles long and about 100 yards wide. you can drive on the beach, all 18 miles of it, if you want to. i didn't though.

    on the jog back is when i ran into three guys wearing wetsuits and carrying surfboards, emerging from the water. i jogged up to them, introduced myself, and interrogated them about how to go about surfing these waters.

    after they got my story, they befriended me and took me to a good surf shop and introduced me to the owner. one of them was from port a, the others from corpus. Paul, Jonathan, and Steve. they were about 35-40 years old, very nice, very down-to-earth. you can trust surfers... there's an understanding.

    anyway, they offered to take me out to dinner. so i showered and met them at Trout Street bar and grille. i ate scallops. then we went to the Salty Dog and i drank crown on the rocks and we played pool and it was a monday night and the place was pretty full considering it was off season. it was also karaoke night. i swear to you, "Elvis Rick" was in the house, wearing black bell bottoms and a silky, shiny white shirt. he was awesome.

    after about 5 crowns, the guys got me to get up on stage and sing Here's A Quarter by Travis Tritt. i am not making this up.

    at closing time they put me in a cab and i got driven back, oh, about 8 blocks, to the laughing horse. i grabbed a beer and walked down the beach.

    i climbed up this old, rickety, wooden lifeguard stand and looked out at the ocean. it roared and i fell asleep for a little while on the bench, then walked back.

    in the morning i got up, took a bottle of tylenol, and headed to the surf shop, where i rented a full wetsuit and a pointy little 8 foot surfboard. they called Paul, who came down and drove me down to the beach. we surfed together for about 2 hours. it was fucking cold and hard to surf in those waters and i was glad to have a thick barrier between me and hundreds of jellyfish that were probably there but i couldn't see.

    it was sunny and warm. i even got a little bit of a sunburn.

    after surfing we sat on the beach and read books for an hour. then we took my rented gear back, i checked out of the laughing horse, and drove home.

    i'll be going back there a lot.

By Dougie on Thursday, March 4, 2004 - 07:14 pm:

    I love those serendiptous kind of trips. No plans, just see what comes up.

    Good luck with Dave, Sarah.

By TBone on Thursday, March 4, 2004 - 07:27 pm:

    Sounds like a great time.

By Platypus on Thursday, March 4, 2004 - 08:07 pm:

    That sounds like a fun trip, Sarah.

    (On another note--Moonit, what would I have to do to move to New Zealand? I've been seriously considering it.)

By moonit on Saturday, March 6, 2004 - 07:30 pm:

    Platy, I will bribe one of my friends to marry you so you get residency. That was easy aye!

    Um I think theres some point system thing... try here....

    My friend Leslie just got accepted, and I have two co-workers who have got their applications in now - I think you can come here on a work visa, then apply for full residency? yeah, you must be able to...

By sarah on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 01:12 am:

    oh the dark secrets that finally eek out, unwillingly, over time.

    hey, but i'm going to detroit. i'll be there saturday (heather?), then flying to st. louis (Daniel ssss?) on thanksgiving day to meet up w/ senor and his posse.

    we're going to the Rock N Roll Art Show on the 25th.

By Nate on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 02:00 am:

    none have dark secrets.

    what the hell are you talking about sarah?

By heather on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 01:22 pm:

    i haven't been to detroit in a very long time

By sarah on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 01:58 pm:

    why not?

    do you no longer have family living there?

    or some other reason?

By heather on Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 03:52 pm:

    my grandma lives there
    but my parents moved
    i just haven't had a good opportunity

    not to mention that the last visit was not very nice, though this could be easily avoided.

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