|THIS IS A READ-ONLY ARCHIVE FROM THE SORABJI.COM MESSAGE BOARDS (1995-2016).|
passion after you've been nothing but supportive of them for
years? When you've provided for them? When you've stood
by them and picked them up after they've fallen into rough
times, resulting from bad luck but also from self inflicted
So, yeah, she's probably going to divorce me soon.
just euphemisms like "divided households" and such. I'm
numb. She said I was a bad person and a bad father. I
guess it helps her to see me that way.
houses, but NOT get a divorce. She wants to sell our house
and buy two new ones. All this after we almost went
bankrupt the last time we bought a house. (Right when the
housing market tanked in 2008. The market is WORSE now.)
This is just bizarre.
if I do I'd be "forcing" her to sleep elsewhere, and that would
constitute bullying on my part.
I gave in. I'm sleeping upstairs on a couch. I still don't
understand how I'd be making her sleep elsewhere just by
sleeping on my side of the bed, but whatever. She
apparently thinks I'm picking a fight just by existing, so no
need to make things worse.
oh Tig. this sounds so bad! my heart is broken.
package arrived yesterday afternoon! sooooo exciting! senor dove right in to the bags of candy. i hope he didn't eat all of the ingredients already.
but, yes, when i make nana's balls, i shall mail some to all those in need of a pick me up.
along with fig preserves.
in the upstairs room for the foreseeable future. It now
makes sense why my wife wanted me to move my office up
here a few months ago.
care to share with us why that is?
this all seems so vague and random from this point of view.
marriage is SO HARD. my god it is so hard and a lot of work. the best advice our family counselor ever gave us was to get a babysitter at least 2x a month, but ideally 1x a week. that advice, i believe, has saved my marriage.
i'm not sure that advice would work in a marriage where one or both spouses have an addiction or mental health issues that they are not willing to admit or address.
anyway. i'm still very sorry.
as far from her on a daily basis (and now at night, too) as
possible. I've been working from home since february and
seeing as she can't stand being around me that must have
been difficult for her.
We have a housekeeper who also does childcare two days a
week. It certainly helps.
I think the crux of the situation is that she's projecting her
feelings about her father onto me. Her dad is very controlling,
manipulative, angry, and mercurial. (and apparently has
mellowed as he's aged, though he's still the most intimidating
man I've ever met.) I can only imagine being around him as a
child seriously messed up my wife. I figured it might be an
issue going into our marriage, but I had no idea how far it
I have recently learned how biology makes men and women very different in ways that make it really hard to understand each other. It's incredible. For the record, men are awesome.
about any way about her actions she starts on the, "Oh, so it's
all about me?" routine, even as she's making it all about me.
:) She's just not being remotely rational. But, you know
what? I'll put up with almost anything as long as she's a good
mom to our daughter and as long as I can live under the
Neither of you are doing your daughter any
favors, living day in and day out in a completely
dysfunctional relationship and acting as if it
i agree with kazu.
i'm not saying get divorced, but...
how about this idea? your wife gets a part time job of some kind and starts taking an anti-depressant and you go to marriage counseling.
the job thing, speaking from personal experience, helps retard the slow decent into madness, that staying home full time with kids, along with varying hormonal factors, can sometimes induce. i mean that only half jokingly.
anti-depressant thing, because from earlier posts of yours, it sounds like she's dealing with some some difficult things like health issues? it might help even her out so she can get her wits about her in the midst of everything.
a possibility when our daughter goes back to school, but I
don't see it happening any time soon.
I doubt she'd ever take antidepressants. And considering she
believes herself to be 100% in the right I don't think she'd
consider it. We did go to couples counseling a few months
ago, and before she cut it off because it "wasn't working" the
counsellor did suggest antidepressants to her. She refused,
so that was that. (And this was the same counsellor who
suggested that I could go into organ failure and die if I
stayed in an unhappy marriage, so wasn't too keen on the
I hated being a "hurt" part when my ex-wife and I got divorced, it did had alot of bearing down on us. But I ain't getting married again, but happy for who I am now. :-)
Hopefully, things will resolve soon. I know you are doing the best.
you n yr daughter, which to me sounds like getting good
legal advice, married folk sleep together, or agree not to.
But never unilaterally. Give her a week to come to her
senses, stop abusing you, then take halff all assests n put in
yr name only and find a lawyer. Give her that, she if she
changes her tune. I am for happy coupledom. Sounds like
yr counseloer was right on. Sorry. Call me if you want. Stay
I don't want a divorce because I want to be in my daughter's
life more than every other weekend and one dinner per week.
(I'd never get 50/50 custody as she has too man resources at
her disposal. Plus 50/50 custody would not be good for my
daughter as she's only three years old.)
kids are resilient and respond well to good parenting even if
it is single parenting. Don t be miserable. If only one of you
wants to reconcile, might as well be a happy dad half time
than a perturbed dad all the time. What would
concerned, yes. I've been anticipating for about nine months
now that she'd divorce me. That was the hardest part,
wondering when she'd lower the boom. Now that it's clear (at
least for the moment) that she doesn't want a divorce I'm
actually feeling much better.
Maybe part of my calm about the situation is that I've been
through far worse. I've had girlfriends physically abuse me,
emotionally abuse me, bring other men into my home and
have sex with them on my bed while I was in the house, etc.
(none of this was by by wife) I've experienced many attacks
from women who were trying to belittle me and tear me down.
So when my wife was telling me I was a bad father and a
bad person, sure it hurt, but I could also dispassionately see
For instance, she said I was a bad father because I
"terrorize" our daughter. The only example she could come
up with was when our daughter was throwing a screaming fit
in a grocery store I told her we would go out to the car and
my wife would finish the shopping. Our daughter is very
attached to my wife, so she was upset by this, but it was no
worse than when my wife drops her off at school, or she
leaves her at home to go to the store. But when it's me
suggesting they separate (even for a few moments) I'm being
So when my wife said this it seemed so ridiculous, and I
could be a bit detached because much worse has been
thrown at me in years past. Even if she said some things to
be intentionally hurtful (always a possibility coming from
someone who feels trapped) it was so plainly false that it just
bounced off me.
And it seems in general that she's unwilling or unable to do
the things that would hurt me the most. I still don't know why
she won't divorce me. I asked her directly and she was
completely silent. So for now, as odd as it is, it's good
enough for me. Even sleeping upstairs.
that is so zen and logical of you. it boggles the mind. or... it boggles this mind.
I am better off today than I was while back. Fawk that anyway (pardon my language).
she attacked me? Attack back? Would that have made the
situation better? Would me getting upset or angry make the
no, of course not. i am not attacking you or being sarcastic (though historically i understand why you might take it that way). in this instance i am being completely sincere.
honestly i was thinking that i should enlist that point of view in my own relationships more often.
maybe in context my comment may make more sense. lately i've been choking back a lot of rage and resentment toward someone who hurt me. maybe a better way to put it is, i let her get to me (no, i'm not talking about my mother). there was just one hurt too many and i lashed back. it was very childish and ugly. i apologized, but she didn't accept, so i lashed out again.
ugh. it's so gross. i'm still feeling shitty about it. lashing back is not what i want to do, it isn't who i want to be. it's very childish and ugly. i let myself get dragged down.
but this isn't about me, and i don't want it to turn it into that.
i don't judge you at all. it sounds like you are confident in the way you want to handle this situation. that's admirable. you're a good man.
can live with the situation, go for it. Sometimes people come
to some compromise. You don't have to go to every
argument to which you have been invited.
He father is ruthless, quite wealthy, and has been divorced
four times. He's a fucking divorce ninja.
The good thing is that he likes me, or at least claims to. (He
has no qualms about lying to gain a tactical advantage, and is
very good at it.) But I can only assume the freight train is
coming. He has told me that he will support my wife
completely, which means the best lawyers money can buy on
her side. I may be well and truly fucked.
You haven't done anything wrong,your a great father,and sometimes you just can't back down!!!
If it comes down to it,I'll write a letter to the court and I'm sure other sorabaji's will too. I think your the better parent.
It sounds like your wife has some mental issues if you ask me and you should start documenting all her bullshit!!!
She has causally said, several times, "Nothing will be different
for you. You can come over and see Ada whenever you want.
I don't see why you're so upset." To think she could actually
believe that not living with my own daughter would be just fine
for me is...I don't know what to say. I've been weeping,
literally on the floor crying my guts out, many times in the past
week. This is the worst thing I've ever gone through.
this makes me feel sick. i am so sorry this is happening to you. why can't Ada live with you?
1) Marci doesn't have to work for a living, so has much more
time to devote to taking care of Ada. One thing I've seen
through all of this is that she is remarkably good at
manipulating her Dad, who is wealthy, so she gets lots of
support from him. I have now become a tool in this, as she's
managed to turn her mismanagement of money into "He
fooled my Dad into thinking I'm irresponsible with money."
So not only will she have her monthly stipend, but I'm sure
she's managed to get more out of him.
2) I have to work, sometimes long hours, often travel. Not
very conducive to single parenthood. And though it's
possible Ada's financial needs may be taken care of, it's not
something I want to bet on. I need to be able to build a
financial future for Ada because left to her own devices Marci
will burn through whatever funds she has available. It's the
only behavior I've seen from her in all the years I've known
3) Ada is very attached to Marci, and will be for a while.
Marci does all she can to encourage this, even to Ada's
detriment, but I think it would be pretty hard on Ada to be
away from Marci.
4) I'm up against the juggernaut, the aforementioned Daddy.
He could crush me in court and financially without breaking a
So that's where it is. Not good.
things as far as Sorabji and I go, I have always
been kind of ghetto.
FUCK THAT BITCH!!!!! FUCK THAT FUCKING ASSHOLE
BITCH!!!! HOW DARE SHE!!! THIS WILL BLOW UP ON
HER!!!WHERE CAN WE GO WITH THIS???? I AM ALL DOWN
FOR YOU TIGGY!!!
She will get KARMA!
DON'T MAKE THINGS EASY ON THOSE FUCKERS!!!
DO ALL YOU CAN ON YOUR OWN!!! YOU ARE SMART AND
CAN DO IT!!! HER DAD WILL HAVE TO PAY!!! I AM
ROOTING FOR YOU!!!
angry, and despondent, at times. But now is not the time for
either of those reactions. I can tell, just from her actions this
past week, that she is going to try the "look at how angry and
crazy Greg is" game, and it started with her pushing me by
saying 1) I had "anger issues," and 2) I had been the
financially irresponsible one in the relationship. (after she blew
at least $100K of her dad's money...all of which is well
documented in bank transactions. Not sure how she thinks
she'll get away with that one...) So she's clearly trying to goad
me into anger so she can play off of that. Well, it's not going to
amen to that. J said what i really wanted to say.
quit your job, fuck it all. grab your little girl and run far away. explain it all to her later when she can understand.
either way, she'll end up resenting you. that's the way this goes, i know. but at least she'll be safe and and have a chance at sanity in your care.
run run run run run run away.
But, no. :)
almost got it cleaned out, but the market is horrible. Another
house just went on the market a few doors down: same size,
probably better shape, $50k less. I'm screwed.
And then there's the weeping. Can't forget that. I've been making
great progress cleaning the place up, but there are long bouts of
crying, and I have to force myself to clean out drawers. I haven't
been this emotional about the whole situation for about a month,
but then a few days ago I started cleaning out some of Ada's toys
and it all hit me again. And again today it was cleaning out the
bathroom, of all places, where a lot of her bath toys surprised me
in a drawer. I've been a bit more down and vulnerable the last few
days because I caught the flu, but damn, can the fucking crying
I can understand about going through the process with the aftermath, the same as mine. It takes time and courage.
my heart goes out to you dude. been going through a split myself,
but yours sounds by far more traumatic. I do hope you've been
able to maintain a connection to your daughter. Stay strong. The
love you give her will always be important. Do you have good
people around you for support? Get them to help you. And break
some shit, or burn it, to let the feelings out.
keep crying. if you're still crying this much a
year from now, you ought to step back and
also, yes, break some shit. huge fan.
you are okay. your vulnerability is what makes
you human. your ability to cry is what makes you
healthy. the tears will lubricate the transition
to the next phase.
sorry to use the word lubricate.
hang in there. you can do this.
me hard the last few days. And in a way, sarah, it's been almost a
year. Last January was when I figured Marci was on the verge of
I'm definitely not renting. Just getting this place into it's current
condition was a pain. Having renters would just guarantee
property damage. Nah, it's either sell or keep paying the
above--cry. Break some stuff. Reality setting in is
when it hits you hard all over again, no matter how
long you've been preparing for it.
blow up the tv, throw away the paper
go to the country, build a little home
plant a little garden, eat a lot of peaches
try to find jesus all on your own
The house is 99.44% ready to list. A photographer comes
tomorrow to take pics for the listing. I dare say it's cleaner than
when I bought it. (Except for the garage, which is packed to the
I hope it sells quickly, but I'm not expecting it to. I just want out
of here. The hardest thing from the past few days was cleaning off
the front doorway. There were some bricks just outside the front
door where Ada had written all of our names in chalk, plus the
names of our pets. (One of which was my cat Max who died a year
ago.) I could barely stand wiping the bricks clean, and all I could
do was weep for minutes afterwards. Its like I've been slowly
erasing the last four years while cleaning this house, tearing down
go office space on a copy machine.
if you're looking at land, don't forget to also
the latest goofiness from the wife.
So she's been bugging me for two weeks to give her the washer
and dryer, which she initially said she didn't want. Apparently she
bought a set for herself, so when she asked me if she could have
mine I was a bit confused. She later told me that hers were
breaking down so I told her I'd give her mine as long as I could do
laundry when I came over. She agreed. This was two days ago.
So yesterday she texted me and said she didn't want them
anymore. She said my dryer was electric and her utility room
didn't have a 220 volt outlet. So when I got over there to see Ada I
peeked behind her dryer and there was a 220 volt outlet. I pointed
this out to her and she said it was no longer my concern, and that I
was a "control freak" for even having looked behind the dryer.
The "control freak" comment really got to me, and I teared up a bit
while playing with Ada afterwards. It's just so emblematic of why
she's divorcing me. How can I be a control freak for trying to help
her out in exactly the way she's been asking me to help her for the
last two weeks? I mean, sure her dad exerts control over her
through the money he gives her, so it's plausible that she's
projecting that onto me, but I don't think that's all of it. After all,
in her initial divorce decree she insisted on 100% parental custody
of Ada. She basically codified her desire to completely control
Ada's life in a legal document. And she's even started suggesting
that I don't have to take Ada on my weekends if I don't "want to."
How could I NOT want to see my daughter? It's basically the only
thing that gives me happiness these days. So while she's in the
past overtly and is now not so subtly trying to have control of all of
Ada's time, she calls ME a control freak for trying to do exactly
what she asked me to do. Unbelievable.
realizations in the last few years. When people are talking
(usually when complaining about someone or accusing someone)
they are 90-something-% talking to themselves.
Now that I've seen it I can't stop seeing it, and it's freaky.
Trying to understand people with the emotional maturity of a
turnip is a fool's errand. Take it from a once-turnip.
Man, I hope brunch is soon.
She's not just a turnip, but a cray-cray turnip.
Clothes, laundry, walk, shower, ride, dungeons & dragons. Go!
but I do my best to ignore her. Sometimes my best isn't good
Yeah, I 've just been clearing out the house (now basically finished)
and the act of deconstructing the last sense of family I had was
hard. The years of 2006-2008 were the happiest of my life, and
the last six months have been the hardest of my life. I hope the
next few months will be better.
i love turnips.
it's likely that i've the emotional maturity of a
turnip. or rutabaga. trying to work my way up to
beet or carrot.
Custody battle is over, unless she decides to revisit it. Officially I
have Standard Possession Order level custody, the regular
1st/3rd/5th weekend per month, with alternate Thursdays.
Unofficially we've settled on a different schedule, though. I have
Ada every Saturday and I come over to Marci's place every day to
visit before bed time.
We're just starting out the financial negotiations. I expect
fireworks as soon as she sees what I've proposed.
My house sale closes on Monday. Moved out most of my stuff
today. Only cried once, on getting back, when I picked up a
glow in the dark plastic star Ada stuck to the garage door.
Hopefully some time this week I'll own a condo near by. It's
decently sized, and has a nice small bedroom for Ada when
she's over. I like it that my mortgage payment will be less than
half of what it is now.
same here. my parents' fighting still sounds an
alarm somewhere deep down in my brain. my
parents' divorced when i was 5, almost 6. it was
very confusing. my dad disappeared for a while.
then moving to the attic room at my grandma's. my
scary, alcoholic, abusive grandpa. then my dad
reappearing. then back to my mom's in an apartment
in the ghetto. dad disappearing again. then to my
aunt's house for a month or so. then to my mom's
new boyfriend's house. my dad reappearing.
mom married 3 times. three extra-marital affairs.
dad married 4 times (most recently this last
October), and in between each he literally had 30+
girlfriends who lived with him at one time or
another, anywhere from 6 months to 2 years.
i didn't even realize how fucked up that all was
until just last year. on the outside i had all
the trappings of an average middle class white
kid. but psychologically and emotionally i lived
locked in a dark basement.
Antigone, stay strong and sane and stable for your
daughter. eventually that's what my dad was able
to do for me, and that was the most important
attachment and relationship in my life that kept
me from... from i don't know what. from something
likely much worse than what i am now.
now that i have kids i want to stay married just
so that my kids don't have to go through anything
like that. i am trying to get sane for the same
i love my girls more than anything in the world.
but there's a part of me that is waking up to the
idea that my attachment to my girls is not an
ideal mother-daughter attachment, but an
attachment between them and 6-year-old sarah.
a little at a time i see glimpses of a idea that
pokes out, wearing various disguises, a thought
that getting married and having kids inevitably,
despite what i do or don't do (The Work), is
leading to my worst nightmare becoming a reality,
and then some day having to learn to make peace
with it, but not before i completely drown in a
sea of regret and/or run away for good.
kids, sarah. In a way I think we all relive our childhoods while
parenting, and try to make our kid's experience better than our
I want to be strong, sane, and stable for Ada. I know there's a
lot I can contribute to her life.