full scale war in Israel


sorabji.com: What are you afraid of?: full scale war in Israel
THIS IS A READ-ONLY ARCHIVE FROM THE SORABJI.COM MESSAGE BOARDS (1995-2016).

By semillama on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 11:04 am:

    Well? Any one want to speculate on how soon this is going to happen?

    I wouldn't be surprised to see it occur within the month. I'm amazed it hasn't happened yet...


By patrick on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 11:21 am:

    im not sure it will.


By semillama on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 12:01 pm:

    I just don't see how a state like Israel will be able to keep itself from it. Especially with what's going on in Iraq.


By wisper on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 12:13 pm:

    please advise on the difference between full scale war and what's going on right now. What's the line?


By patrick on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 12:22 pm:

    now they are just taking pock shots at each other.


    full scale war with ground troops, regular air sorties and whatnot would probably decimate a 1/3 of the population in that region in a matter of days. I think both sides know that, and thats why they arent escalating it any further.


By Antigone on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 12:25 pm:

    Mass hysteria. Cats and dogs living together.


By semillama on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 12:33 pm:

    cats and dogs can easily learn to get along.


By Nate on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 01:07 pm:

    the PLO has no chance in full scale war. Full scale war is israel pounding the hell out of the PLO. if the rest of the arab nations held back, the rest of the world would have to come down on israel.

    if the rest of the arab nations didn't hold back, goodnight damascus. i think we'll see a third nuclear detonation.

    israel has nothing to gain from a fullscale war. the PLO has everything to gain.




By spunky on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 01:11 pm:

    I say bomb the whole region...

    We go through this every so often. It's just like children fighting over their favorite toys in the sand box.


By semillama on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 01:13 pm:

    So instead of killing a few civilians at a time, kill them all at once?

    I tried seriously imagining what it must be like to live over there, and be exposed to this. To go out for pizza and get blown up. To see bodies in the street. We are so damn lucky to live here.


By patrick on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 01:17 pm:

    thats a brilliant idea spunky.


By spunky on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 01:20 pm:

    IF Isreal becomes involved in a full scale war, then I can see Bush ordering the US to back them up. Most of the nations that consider themselves as some form of "Christian" nations have traditionally backed Isreal. We have furrowed our brows at them once or twice for some act we did not approve of, but never condemed them for thier actions.
    Isreal has always been involved in some fight or another for the past what, 52 years? And before they were their own nation and were part of Palastine, they fought the Palastininas and iranians and iraqies and egyptions or whomever they feel is "transgressing" against God.

    I was kidding when I said blow up the entire region. Their are millions who are inflicted by religious wars out there when they are not part of either religion.


By Nate on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 01:25 pm:

    "We are so damn lucky to live here."

    if we get behind israel in a full scale war, a real jihad will likely be called. if a real jihad is called, bombs will become frequent on american soil.

    there are more muslims than protestants in this country. and as many muslims as jews.

    we won't get behind israel. not anymore. not under bush. under clinton maybe. under gore. bush is pulling troops out of the region.


By pez on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 01:26 pm:

    traditionally backing israel.

    for thousands (ok, hundreds) of years, jews were the hated of europe. and russia.


    but we back them as a nation.

    what makes them any different to the palestinians? is it because they're the underdogs?


By patrick on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 01:28 pm:

    there would be no need for us to get behind israel.

    they could take Palestine in a matter of a couple of weeks.


By spunky on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 01:31 pm:

    No, Pez. It is because the bible says that
    "Isreal is God's Chosen People".
    Even though it was isreal that did nothing but complain at God while Moses led them through the desert to the promised land, then get sick of god and turned all their jewlery into a golden cow and had an orgy, thus earning us the ten commandments. Then when Christ came to see them, they crucified him.
    But, they are God's Chosen People, so most nations do not have the guts to go against them. Unless they are neighbors and know them for who they really are


By pez on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 01:34 pm:

    god's chosen people?

    they're bankers and merchants because, for hundreds of years, they weren't allowed to own land.

    they've been exiled from spain. brutally tortured during the inquisition.



    nearly wiped out by an austrian madman.

    don't tell me that we won't go against them because they're "god's chosen people". what a bunch of crap.






    you can't ignore history.


By spunky on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 01:45 pm:

    Right, but history also considers those actions as evil acts by evil people.
    Hitler and Tomas de Torquemada are considered evil today. Nations that consider themselves righteous (which, by the way Germany and Spain both considered themselves righteous) back isreal


By pez on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 01:57 pm:

    still it seems silly.




    this strains a lot of middle eastern relations.

    we could wipe the palestinians and iraqians off the face of the earth, but then saudi arabia wouldn't ship us any oil for gasoline.






    that's why there's not a real war.


By semillama on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 01:58 pm:

    Until recently, "history" considered Christians to be the actual chosen people. Israel was set up to be a puppet state to Western interests, which is one reason why many in the arabic world hate the US so much.

    I would also say that more muslim nations consider themselves righteous than christian ones.


By pez on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 02:01 pm:





    besides, people would rather be in than out.



    "so what if judaism is the chosen religion? they're wrong and so they must die."

    or the equivilent. read your history books. if you really want a war down there, stop driving.


By patrick on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 02:10 pm:

    iraqi people.


    saudi arabia and Iraq are at odds and have been for sometime. Thats why Saudi Arabia let us launch fighters from their airbases when you were 11 years old pez. Saudi Aradbia is generalyl speaking an ali of the US, even thought we've done a few things recently to piss them off.

    the middle east is a mixed bag. not all the arab nations despise the US.

    the reason there is not a real war is like i said before. 1/3 of the population would be gone in days. Like nate said, its not in the interest of Israel to launch a full scale war.


By semillama on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 02:11 pm:

    Also: Nate, what are you smoking? There are NOT more muslims than protestants in this country. Maybe in Dearborn, Michigan, but not in the whole nation! According to Gallup data used in Census documents, in 1999, 55% of the nation was Protestant.


By wisper on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 02:16 pm:

    The people there do strange things.
    Sometimes itís like their children, but children with guns.

    if the fighting stopped, would they know what to do?
    probably not. They were raised getting shot at. It would be like Russia after communism fell. "Yay! weíre free!! that's good! ..uhm....wait, now i'm poor as fuck."
    Freedom must be a terrifying idea. It won't even work for some.
    How scary an idea peace must be when all youíve ever known is how to dodge landmines. I donít wonder why every attempt at a cease-fire is fucked over by groups of younger crazier guerillas. The older fighters are old and tired, and they can remember what it was like to not live in fear. But their children canít. So blow up another nightclub to add to a war that was going on before their grandparents were born. I bet they canít imagine what life would be like without violence any more than i can imagine what it would be like to live there.
    So why not keep blowing shit up? Theyíre good at it. They donít know what else to do.
    It's all so so so so sad.


By Nate on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 02:32 pm:

    "we could wipe the palestinians and iraqians off the face of the earth, but then saudi arabia wouldn't ship us any oil for gasoline. "

    jesus christ pez.

    you're talking about people. people with families and children. these aren't evil people.

    the israeli government is evil. it kills children. it condones torture.

    israel acts like nazi germany.




By Nate on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 02:41 pm:

    i meant presbyterian, sem. sorry. all those wannabe christian denominations get me confused.


By semillama on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 02:47 pm:

    That's ok. They're all the same anyway, except for the hairdos.


By Antigone on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 02:52 pm:

    "Nate, what are you smoking? There are NOT more muslims than protestants in this country. "

    Nate just digs that fuzzy math.

    And now we see that pez becomes a political hardass when she's pissed.


By Nate on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 03:59 pm:

    jesus christ on a stick, antigone. you need to get laid.


By Antigone on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 04:53 pm:

    First things first, my man!


By wisper on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 05:03 pm:


By Nate on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 05:11 pm:

    fucking jewish nazis.


By dave. on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 05:18 pm:

    if we just destroy all the holy places, have there'll be much less cause to whine about the desecration and defiling of these silly pieces of real estate.

    as long as the muslims say you have to pat your head with your left hand and rub your tummy with your right while the jews say you have to pat your head with your right and rub your tummy with your left, can there ever be any peace?


By pez on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 05:23 pm:

    nate: that was a point i made on why we don't take an active role in more than peacekeeping.

    technically we're on israel's side, but we consume more oil in the united states per capital than anywhere else in the world.

    all the middle eastern countries are closely related, so if we destroy one, we have all of them angry at us, plain and simple.

    saudi arabia wouldn't send us any more oil.

    so economically, we're on palestine's side.


By semillama on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 05:36 pm:

    We basically destroyed Iraq in the Gulf War, with the support of Saudi Arabi and other Arab nations. We could give a flying fuck about Palestine because they have no oil.

    Jordan was supposed to be the "Palestinian State" and of course that didn't happen.


By Cat on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 05:47 pm:

    I've been to Medinat Yisrael. It's not worth fighting over.

    And I wouldn't want to go up against a people that have a thousand-year persecution chip on their shoulder.

    The Israelis will hold on with their bloody fingernails to the barren land no one wanted until they came along. They've already paid with too much blood and there will be rivers of it if anyone tries to take an inch from them.

    I admire them in a way. Even though they're probably mostly in the wrong.

    None of us understand this conflict and there's no way we can unless we're in their shoes. If the Native Americans were still trying to hold onto their territory, you might have a better idea.

    Palestine is just as bad as Israel. Israel is just as bad as Palestine.


By wisper on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 05:53 pm:

    i'm with dave.
    You want your Wailing Wall? and you want your damn Mosque? here, take some of it home with you in a handy tote bag. You won't even have to leave home anymore.
    now THATS logic!

    i knew this mother who had two kids, and if they argued over a toy she would grab it out of their hands and throw it away. Harsh, i thought, but those kids sure learned what is and is not worth fighting over.

    fucking people


By patrick on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 06:05 pm:

    we are talking mass organized religion here.


    Something like that would never work.

    You don't go jiving peoples religion like that.


    See how far that got the taliban when they brought down the Buddha statues?


By wisper on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 06:19 pm:

    i know that.
    i was being extreme.

    seeing as we are unfamiliar with sarcasm, i will close the register at this point.

    although the Buddha statues were destroyed out of religious fanaticism, and what i offered was out of "if you can't play nice together then no one can have the toys" kinda idea.


By Cat on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 06:22 pm:

    I wish the UN would go in and take over the holy sites and basically say to both sides "When you learn to live in peace, we will give you joint guardianship, until then we'll look after them because they belong to the World". It's only a really small area that's involved, you know. There were no jets in BC.


By patrick on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 06:33 pm:

    cat broke my sarcasm meter a long time ago.


By patrick on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 06:41 pm:

    i just finally got around to reading the details of todays bombing.

    thats fucked.

    walking to a crowd of civilians with a nail bomb is cowardly.

    how much control over these incidents Arafat has is beyond me.

    All i know is you can be damn sure there will be some serious retaliation any minute now.


By Gee on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 08:18 pm:

    I really really Really don't want there to be a war in Israel.


By Nate on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 08:32 pm:

    hiding in the trees and shooting a marching line of redcoats in cowardly.


By spunky on Thursday, August 9, 2001 - 10:33 pm:

    cowardly? Or is it stupid to walk in a line durring a war?


By pezz on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 04:12 am:

    i wish there wern't any wars, but am too tired to do anything about it at the moment.

    i'm getting off, folks. gotta clean the kitchen before catching zzzz's.


By moonit on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 04:15 am:

    We ran an ad in our paper last week, that I refused to type - all about how x religion was the superior and if you were y then you were a loser, very scary.


By patrick on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 11:29 am:

    your right nate. in that time, that was considered ungentlemanly.

    It wasn't until WW1 with the advant of gas weapons, tanks, machine guns and aircraft that they didn't all get in a line, face each and march towards each other until one side ran or was dead.

    but nate you are missing one critical point. The rebels didn't hide in the streets and sniper british civilians. This bomb didnt kill a single Israeli soldier. If this bobm went off at a police station or military outpost, I wouldnt feel it cowardly.


By semillama on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 12:18 pm:

    (Actually, the first modern war is considered to be the Civil War, where technology really started to kick the ass of the old field infantry techniques. You can go all over the South and find the remians of trenches and such.)


By patrick on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 12:21 pm:

    yeah, i suppose they had gatlin guns too. But a large portion of the war was still fought very traditionally.

    While you are in SC, it may be a 2 hour drive or so, but Charleston/Ft. Sumpter are really really neato!


By wisper on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 12:56 pm:

    moonit, can i see i copy of the ad?
    I'd like to know more.


By pez on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 01:03 pm:

    the american civil war was the first war really fought with modern weaponry. some of the strategy was a little screwy, due to the relitively new weapons that were way more powerful than they were used to.

    it was not a good time to be in cavalry.

    the last major war in the united states was fought with muskets, which had a range of maybe 25-50 yards. the civil war was fought mostly with rifle-muskets, which had double the range.

    men still wanted to be valiant and engage in hand-to-hand combat. but these brave men were mostly ripped apart by bullets and left for dead.

    another thing was the medical technology wasn't so great. frequently men would receive a bullet wound to the arm or leg, which would get severly infected. there was no anesthesia, so they'd literally have to "bite the bullet" while the limb was sawed off.

    gory, huh? thank you mr. corkett.


By Czarina on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 01:39 pm:

    During the civil war,a doctor figured out how digestion worked.Some soldier was shot in the stomach,and the doc decided to attach a piece of meat to a string,and poke it through the bullet hole,into the stomach,and pull it back out at various intervals,to see how long it took to be digested.

    Also,I read,but don't necessarily believe,that a woman during the civil war,was impregnated by a bullet that passed through a soldiers testes,and then went through her uterous.This was probably a good way to get herself off of the hot seat.

    These facts have nothing to to do with a possible war in Isreal.But it seems to validate that the scientific community seems to benefit from war.

    Natural selection,thats what war is all about.
    Not much difference whether a species grows a longer neck,enabling them to eat leaves off the top of the tree,or if a given species can invent "Better-Badder" weaponry.


By Nate on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 02:05 pm:

    tom waits.


By Antigone on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 02:57 pm:

    roger waters.


By Dougie on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 03:26 pm:

    keith moons


By Hal on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 03:57 pm:

    John Fogerty.


By Nate on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 04:07 pm:

    "that a woman during the civil war,was impregnated by a bullet that passed through a soldiers testes,and then went through her uterous."

    tom waits


By semillama on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 05:24 pm:


By dave. on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 06:02 pm:

    rex everything

    ?


By Nate on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 06:22 pm:

    i want to say in the first couple tracks of nighthawks. was that recorded at the rex? sweee parrreeeeee. i have no idea. i doubt it.




By sarah on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 10:39 pm:


    hey sem. you got your answer...




By Skooter on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 11:27 pm:

    Actually, the bullet in the stomach thing
    happened at Mackinac Island in the upper
    reached of Michigan during the British
    struggles with the local native american tribes.
    I just read a great saying by Gary Kurtz, "War is
    like acute schiozphernia on a global scale."
    Meaning that if we really are one race, the
    human race, we're really killing parts of
    ourselves off.
    I also like the words of Edwin Starr,
    "War...huh...what is it good for!"
    "We hold these truths to be self evident,
    George W. Bush is not our president-"Ani
    DiFranco.


By semillama on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 01:26 pm:

    Yeah, the bullet in the stomach thing was that
    this guy got shot and the hole in the belly
    healed OPEN. So that the doctors took
    advantage of this to study how the
    gastrointestinal system works inside a living
    human for the first time.

    I'd imagine that guy was pretty grumpy about
    his contribution to medical science, though.


By spunky on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 01:34 pm:

    I think we did get our answer, on Sept 11.


By Antigone on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 02:10 pm:

    Nah, we got our answer on Sept 10th.


By semillama on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 05:37 pm:

    Maybe we got our answer when Bush said it
    was okay to go full bore after "terrorists" and
    screw the consequences.

    I'm paraphrasing here, of course, but that's
    what he meant.


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