and if so, could you act like it? Do you love me?: and if so, could you act like it?

By Nate on Tuesday, July 27, 1999 - 04:21 pm:

    So, someone tell me what's up with lack of reasoning and women? i'm getting fed up with this need to focus on so much energy on trivial and inconsequential things. if you're going to cause a rift in a relationship with me, make sure it's over something worthwhile.

    as a matter of example, i have a little ritual. it's my two hours of television i watch per week. i get bombed every monday night and watch two episodes of that 70's show and ally mcbeal. i do this every monday night, and without fail someone always seems to call in middle of it.

    so i've begun requesting that nobody call me during that time. it ruins my ritual. if you're there in person and want to be a part of it, no problem. it's not an exclusive thing. it just doesn't involve phonecalls.

    so now the current sigO doesn't like this. she wants me to quit my ritual because it hurts her. why? because she's not allowed to call me during those two hours. i've told her that if it's important, that's not a problem. But if it's just some jabberjaw aimless chitchat kind of call, i'd rather not receive it during those two hours.

    flipout. why? is this really epic? it's two fucking hours per week.

    so i says "what if i just go for a two hour hike every monday night? you won't be able to call me then"

    she says "that's not the same. if you're gone i am not able to call you, i'm not being told not to."

    that makes no sense. if i'm at home and don't want to be interrupted, that's a relationship crime. if i'm gone and can't be interrupted, that's not a problem.

    so it's basically my phone is a chain that binds me. if i am able to reach the phone, i am obliged to use it.

    fuck that. and to cause a whole hub-bub in the relationship over two fucking hours of week. women have brains like children.

    jesus christ.

By Nate on Tuesday, July 27, 1999 - 04:21 pm:

    oh, and btw. before any of you blow a tampon or something, i should have said "some women" everwhere i said "women"

By Waffleboy on Tuesday, July 27, 1999 - 05:15 pm:

    "blow a tampon"........?????

    i love it nate....

    two words nate........"answering machine" volume down, ringer off......

    either that or tell her you only crap once a week, on Mondays from 8-10, due to the logistics of that it is imperative to your constitution that you are not interrupted...

By C on Tuesday, July 27, 1999 - 06:31 pm:

    anyone, male or female, who doesn't respect another's "private time" is seriously deranged. it's not a specifically female-oriented problem; i've met men w/ this malfunction, too. such behavior is a warning sign. it means that the other person is a potential control freak. even worse, it may mean that they're the "jealous type"...& there's no room in ANY sane relationship for jealousy. none. jealousy is a disease. this includes jealousy over one's private time. one thing to ask yourself...what is HER private time like? if she doesn't have any serious private time, or privacy rituals, this is another massive warning signal. people who have to be connected to other people 24-7 are twisted. this type of behvior doesn't tend to get better. it often gets progressively worse. just something to think about. i wish you the best & hope that i haven't been out of line w/ my comments. i realize that you didn't ask for my opinion or anything, but i also hate this type of thing. i would never conduct a relationship w/ someone who even remotely hinted at putting a dent in my private time. but that's just my two cents worth.

By FETIDBEAVER on Tuesday, July 27, 1999 - 06:54 pm:

    Careful, she might buy you a cell phone so that she can reach you anytime anywhere. In fact if I was to market one that didn't ring or vibrate but had electrodes attached to a man's nuts, I'll bet I could make a fortune.

By Cyst on Tuesday, July 27, 1999 - 07:02 pm:

    your woman may have a brain like a child.

    I like to chat on the phone sometimes, but only with someone else who feels like chatting on the phone.

    two hours a week is not too much to ask for. unless you feel like becoming half of a set, as most seem to do.

    (I just remembered that in summer camp dining hall, we were never allowed to separate the pepper from the salt, and I could never figure out why not.)

    whoever just posted may have said something like these things only get worse. in case you were wondering, this is true. especially if you get married, I imagine. it seems that when people are married, their need/right to know the whereabouts and doings of the other at all time becomes absolute.

By Agatha on Tuesday, July 27, 1999 - 08:43 pm:

    your friend is completely irrational. she is definitely having some sort of control issue, it seems.

    i watch those same two hours every week. ally macbeal sucks now, and i still watch it anyhow. that seventies show rules.

By Simon on Tuesday, July 27, 1999 - 10:00 pm:

    I dunno, nate, she sounds like a real rabbit-boiler to me. It might be easier to fake your own death and get an unlisted number.

By FETIDBEAVER on Tuesday, July 27, 1999 - 10:14 pm:

    "Rabbit-boiler", what the....?

By Antigone on Tuesday, July 27, 1999 - 11:32 pm:

    I think Simon meant to say MARMOT boiler.. ;-)

By Simon on Tuesday, July 27, 1999 - 11:52 pm:

    Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction: rabbit boiler.

By Simon on Tuesday, July 27, 1999 - 11:58 pm:

    we all know that marmots taste just like chicken... email me for my favorite recipe, "Rockchuck Cacciatore."

By J on Wednesday, July 28, 1999 - 02:13 am:

    Have you got your hands on the white-trash cook-book?

By Gee on Wednesday, July 28, 1999 - 05:45 am:

    Maybe she just wants to rescue you from bad television.

    Okay, so honestly speaking, if someone said to me "don't call me at so-and-so time, cuz I don't want to talk to you." I would have to admit that I'd feel a little Twinge of pain way in the back of my heart. I'm just that way with rejection of any kind. But I could handle it. I would be okay with it and let him have his time. I'd get over it pretty quickly.

    I can't STAND talking to someone and knowing that they'd rather be doing something else than talking to me. If I know I've inturrupted or woken someone up with a phone call, I force them to go back to what they were doing and just talk to them later. My guess is that she's not upset you want some "quiet time", just that in a little way, she's being rejected. Why don't you just invite her over to watch the shows with you on Monday?

By C on Wednesday, July 28, 1999 - 08:25 am:

    if i were told by a man that he didn't want to hear from me via telephone at a certain time, guess what? i'd have the human decency not to call. my heart would not be broken. such a request wouldn't hurt me, not even for one moment. i'm relatively creative; i think i could find something else to do w/ my time for two hours a week. my only demand would be that i am also afforded a similar amount of free time, in which i would also not be disturbed. if such a reciprocal offer were not extended, i'd leave the relationship. plain & simple.

By J on Wednesday, July 28, 1999 - 10:09 am:

    I have caller rejection on my phone,just dial *60,put your girlfriends phone# in,when your shows are over,dial *80 and take her # off.When she calls and you have her # on rejection,a recording will come on that says you are not taking calls now.It is the ultimate rejection.You have told her not to call,so she is being selfish,it,s a power trip.

By Margret on Wednesday, July 28, 1999 - 11:32 am:

    Nate. goddamnit.

    You know better than this.

By Swine on Wednesday, July 28, 1999 - 12:52 pm:

    dig the hole first.

By Nate on Wednesday, July 28, 1999 - 01:11 pm:

    but if i do that, they can nail me with 1st degree.

    of course... it would reduce the chance of being caught.

By Swine on Wednesday, July 28, 1999 - 01:14 pm:


    they'd have to actually prove that you dug the hole prior to "correcting the situation."

    this would entail an eye-witness.

    what do you do if you are unfortunate enough to be witnessed?

    dig another hole.

By Conchita on Wednesday, July 28, 1999 - 01:20 pm:

    My husband spends more times "watching" conversations on this board than he does doing anything at all with me. There is nothing wrong with doing his own thing and having time to himself, but we work different shifts. When I'm at work, his got nothing but time to himself. The time we have that can be spent together is scarce. The fact that he'd rather spend it staring at words from people he dosn't even know, than he would with me, is depressing to say the least.

    I'm wondering if any of you favor the company of your cyber amigos over your significant others. Or are you able to make time for both? If the answer is the later, maybe you could share some of your time-management secrets.

By Waffles on Wednesday, July 28, 1999 - 01:47 pm:

    uh, NO WAY, my S/O gets my attention at the drop of a dime, I like all the folks around here, but text doesn't replace flesh, these letters don't smile, these words don't have hair I can run my fingers through.

    this place is like a waterin hole while I am at work, chained to my desk, and occasionally at home when she is occupied.

    I would suggest you talk to you s/o about that.

By J on Wednesday, July 28, 1999 - 02:59 pm:

    I just do this when I,m alone,or my s/o is sleeping,and I can,t.I don,t blame you for being depressed,nobody likes to be ignored,and if he,d rather watch the board than talk to you,he may have issues.Maybe you should kick his ass,or do the same thing to him,or even better,go out with your friends and have some fun.

By Waffleboy on Wednesday, July 28, 1999 - 03:14 pm:

    god I LOVE you J, a woman who talks about kicking her s/o's ass, you gotta love it, really, you do!!!!

By Lawanda on Wednesday, July 28, 1999 - 05:03 pm:

    I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. Thanks Nate, for the "blow your tampon" line. I gotta use that.

    Seriously though, she needs to lighten up. You even said that you didn't mind company during your ritual. So she should get her butt over to your place if she's that insecure. But that's the key. Insecure. Until she is comfortable with herself, she isn't going to give you a break. That can be more than just a little stressful.

    Hell, I was so OK with giving people space, that one guy cheated on me for more than a year before I got a clue.

    If you put on the machine and she gives you crud about that, you need to really think about saying goodbye. If she leaves 10 messages during your two hours...RUN.

By Sarah on Wednesday, July 28, 1999 - 05:43 pm:

    let me guess.

    your girlfriend is young... say under 22 years old... and doesn't have much relationship experience.

    it's not a woman thing, it's a maturity thing.

    and if not, then she's just insecure.

    otherwise, i cannot imagine why your ritual would be a problem. it's just a symptom of something else. again, that's my guess.

By Swine on Wednesday, July 28, 1999 - 06:16 pm:


    she's good.

By Semillama on Wednesday, July 28, 1999 - 06:40 pm:

    I was going to comment on the choice of tv, but then i realized what i spend my monday nights watching, and further realized that there is one episode of "That 70's Show" that both Nate and I would really dig...

    I am not sure I could handle Ally McBeal stoned though.

By Cyst on Wednesday, July 28, 1999 - 07:16 pm:

    conchita - does your husband ever post, or is he just a lurker?

    if you work different shifts, how come he doesn't read the boards while you're at work?

By Nate on Wednesday, July 28, 1999 - 08:45 pm:

    or why doesn't he read the boards while he's at work? that's what i do.

    the reason why she doesn't join me is she is out of town for a few months. otherwise, i'm sure she would.

    i think we've answered this issue. it was more a case of me telling her not to call me, than anything else.

    Sem - Monday Nitro?

    that 70's show, in my opinion, is the best entertainment value on television. ally used to be, but it is starting to drag for me. i still watch it anyway. mostly for the biscuit and nell. some for fish and ling.

By Agatha on Wednesday, July 28, 1999 - 09:08 pm:

    who is the biscuit? dave and i sometimes fight over computer priorities, but i am nearly as bad as him, so it usually ends pretty quickly. sometimes he will chat on irc for like three hours, and then i feel neglected. i admit it. there, i've said it. however, if he said to me, "i am going to be on irc for two hours every monday night, don't bother me," not only would i not bother him, but i would get our child out of the house and leave him in fucking peace. it's all about respecting your partner's wants and needs, and vice versa. thus ends this dead horse flogging, on my end.

By Waffles on Wednesday, July 28, 1999 - 09:57 pm:

    a character on ally mcbeal

By J on Wednesday, July 28, 1999 - 10:31 pm: are wise for one so young,you are a good mother,and s/o.

By Friendly on Thursday, July 29, 1999 - 12:39 am:

    nell is, for me, the best argument for genetic research and cloning. if only she could be cloned with the mind (and tongue) of a 3 month old irish setter and then mass produced. think about it. if the biggest problem facing society is, "what do we do with our men", this is the answer. television can only go so far in keeping people inside and occupied. nell(tm) could accomplish what no television program could ever do: keep hyper-glandular men off the streets and occupied.

    i'll take two!

By Sarah on Thursday, July 29, 1999 - 04:04 am:

    Three girlfriends had a very late night drinking Budweiser & tequila shots.

    They left in the early morning hours and went home separately. They met the next day for an early pint, and compared notes about who got more drunk the night before.

    The first gal claims that she was the drunkest, saying, "I drove straight home, walked into the house, and as soon as I got through the door, I blew chunks."

    To which the second gal replied, "You think that was drunk? I got in my car, drove out of the parking lot, and wrapped my car around the first tree I saw. I don't even have insurance!"

    And the third proclaimed, "I was by far the most drunk. I got home, got in a big fight with my husband, knocked a candle over and burned the whole house down!"

    They all looked at each other for a moment. Then the first gal said:

    "Ladies, I don't think you understand. My dog's name is Chunks."

    thank you and goodnight.

By Conchita on Thursday, July 29, 1999 - 08:59 am:

    Thanks for all the feedback. Yes, he posts on this board, but I think he does alot more lurking. I hope he reads this thread, maybe he'll see I'm not being "a big whine bag" for no reason at all. But giving him some credit, I really don't think he realizes how much/long he's actually on the computer. You'd think my "whining" or the fact that I've walked out the door on my way to work and he did'nt notice for a hour or two would give him a clue. I seriously think he's addicted or something. He's either at work, on the computer or asleep. Ofcourse, I haven't tried "whining" naked yet, maybe that will work. As you might have noticed, "whining" is HIS term, not mine.
    I call it bitching. But what ever you call it, it's futile. Again, Thanks!

By Conchita on Thursday, July 29, 1999 - 09:36 am:

    Oh yeah, the Ally McBeal thing? I agree with you on that Nate. There's a certain thing you do at a certain time and she knows it. It's 2 hours or so a week, big deal. Surely you spend at least that much or more time a week with her, don't you? Tell her to consider herself lucky and to find her own thing to do during that time. Manicure, facial, watching Ally McBeal and comparing notes later. Everybody's gotta have SOME "me" time, even her.

By Nate on Thursday, July 29, 1999 - 01:10 pm:

    "Tell her to consider herself lucky"

    i may be a man, but i do know that this is not the thing to say to a woman.

    i would think she would just go find something to do during those two hours. i don't think we're co-dependant -- but i'll ask her to make sure.

By FETIDBEAVER on Thursday, July 29, 1999 - 04:52 pm:

    Yep, you want to open the gates of hell just tell your woman how lucky she is. I did that once, only ONCE!

By Lawanda on Thursday, July 29, 1999 - 05:57 pm:

    Right after you tell her how lucky she is, and she starts to ram her fist down your throat, tell her to calm down, she's over-reacting.

    Then tell her you understand that she's probably PMS'ing and that she might want to up her medication.

    I'll send flowers to your funeral.

By Semillama on Thursday, July 29, 1999 - 06:24 pm:

    nate- nitro and raw of course, and I refer to the 70s show guest starring the Rock as his own father, Rocky Johnson.

By Conchita on Saturday, July 31, 1999 - 08:54 am:

    OK, OK! That was a bad idea. Don't say it!!!
    I guess I was just thinking that she is lucky you only have one night week you really want to yourself. I have to compete with the with an inanimate foe every night!!! But good luck with your delima anyway.

By Pamela on Friday, September 10, 1999 - 03:00 pm:

    I LOVE That 70's show!!!!!!!!! It is my absolute favorite! The episode with the Rock and Shamrock in it was hilarious! What was up with those wigs? Shamrock looked like a butch on steroids... My TV is all whacked b/c it has no antenna and I don't have cable at the momment so whenever I watch that 70's Show it's very grainy. It totally sucks... Hey Nate, do you mind if I come over and watch at your place?

By Cyst on Friday, September 10, 1999 - 04:33 pm:

    my friend made me watch that show the other night. the only part I thought was funny was that the pretty boy's girlfriend has the exact same bedroom furniture I do. I have to remember to stay away from tv watchers' houses during prime time.

By sarah on Wednesday, September 8, 2010 - 10:44 am:

    hi nate!

By Antigone on Wednesday, September 8, 2010 - 05:41 pm:

    Hi, beav!

By sarah on Thursday, October 7, 2010 - 11:55 pm:

    opinion poll. in the contract of marriage, is it not stated and/or implied that as part of the contract one of your duties is to show physical affection to your spouse in one form or another?

    and if that is not performed, even after marital counseling, that it is grounds for termination?


By heather on Friday, October 8, 2010 - 05:12 pm:

    I'm not sure what I think of a relationship having a contract and duties.

    Or what happens when you need something and you can't get it.

    I don't know how people live without physical affection.

    I know that.

By Antigone on Friday, October 8, 2010 - 06:41 pm:

    Contractual affection doesn't seem that affectionate.

    As long as we're being hypothetical, suppose your spouse has
    health problems and hasn't been intersted in any kind of
    physical affection for almost three years? Personally I don't
    think that's reason to end a relationship because there's more
    to a marriage than that.

By sarah on Saturday, October 9, 2010 - 03:50 pm:

    asking for affection is not like asking your spouse to take out the garbage or pick up the dog shit in the yard.

    it's supposed to be fun, enjoyable.

By sarah on Saturday, October 9, 2010 - 11:43 pm:

    typically when you get married you say vows.

    to have and to HOLD.

    if you vow to have, you should have.

    if you vow to hold, you should hold.

    if you do not wish to whatever it is that you vow to do in marriage 'til death do you part, then you are violating the terms of the contract, and therefore are subject to termination.

    the only contract worth keeping is the contract one makes with the infinite ecstasy that is god within everything and everyone.

    there is a world somewhere, where i could become a hare krishna and take my kids with me, and people wouldn't judge and use words like "cult". i don't live in that world.

    so in lieu of the infinite ecstasy, i'd like to be touched now and then.

By heather on Sunday, October 10, 2010 - 05:13 am:

    The infinite bliss you can imagine is the same dream, no?

By sarah on Sunday, October 10, 2010 - 02:15 pm:

    well if you put it that way, i already am the infinite bliss.

    i wish i had figured that out 10 years ago. i had many glorious
    glimpses of it, but my mind was too full of junk to grok it

By Antigone on Sunday, October 10, 2010 - 09:46 pm:

    Work yourself up into whatever justification suits you. My wife
    is doing the same thing right now. I expect she'll divorce me
    at the first available opportunity.

By sarah on Sunday, October 10, 2010 - 10:19 pm:

    justification for what?

    why aren't you touching your wife?

By Antigone on Sunday, October 10, 2010 - 10:45 pm:

    Justification for divorce. You're talking about termination of
    contracts. I assumed you meant divorce.

    She doesn't want me to touch her. Mostly it's been back
    problems and fatigue on her part, but in the last six months
    or so even when she's felt OK, she brushes me off.

    And now we've been in counselling. The first session the
    counselor, in the first ten minutes or so, asked "why are you
    two married?" Then in the next session my wife said that if I
    wanted to be "free" she would understand. (Though I've never
    expressed any desire whatsoever to be "free.") And
    yesterday, at the end of the session, the counselor went so
    far as to claim I could suffer organ failure and premature
    death if I stayed in a marriage that causes me too much
    emotional distress.

    It's just getting a bit odd at this point.

    Anyway, apart from the counselor wierdness, I suspect that
    my wife is intent on cutting me loose when she gets the
    chance. I don't want that to become a self fulfilling prophecy,
    and I'm trying to be optimistic, but it's difficult.

By Dr Pepper on Sunday, October 10, 2010 - 10:58 pm:

    I knew it, Sorry about that Antigone, mine didn't work after 4 years of marriage. I have seen this kind of before.. Wish you the best. and It will takes time for wound to be healed.

By semillama on Monday, October 11, 2010 - 11:44 am:

    urg. Antigone, that sounds like a terrible situation. maybe she doesn't really feel ok and is masking it?

    It's good you're getting counseling. Sometimes that outside perspective is really what you need.

    It's really easy to fall into the habit of not being affectionate, to simply accept the other person's presence as a given. Sometimes one can get so focused on what your responsibilities are that day (job, kids, chores, etc) that one can let slide the little things that add up to a great marriage.

    And sometimes, it's just one person or the other deciding that the spark is gone and no amount of effort will re-ignite it. That's why communication is so important, and why I think marriage counseling is a great thing.

    (For the record, my relationship with my wife is A-OK)

By TBone on Monday, October 11, 2010 - 11:04 pm:

    Antigone, I'm sorry your marriage isn't going well. Sem, I'm glad yours is great. For some reason, I know very few people whose relationships are not recently ended or in some other state of not-greatness.

By wisper on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 08:49 am:

    ...this is one of the reasons i am divorced :/

    constant physical rejection from someone who is
    supposed to love you, this fucks your self-esteem in
    powerful and twisted ways.

By sarah on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 11:35 am:

    wisper, that is the most succinct and accurate description of what is otherwise made out to be a ridiculously overcomplicated situation. thank you for that.

    tig, i'm sorry to hear that things fall apart. i agree with sem, it's all about communication. and i'm going to see that and raise the stakes, adding that it's also about both sides digging in deep to stay vulnerable.

    when things fall apart with senor and i as they sometimes do, it is a reminder that marriage is a lot of hard work, and you have to find a way to pick up the pieces and put it back together again.

    and be willing to do it over and over and over.

    which is really aggravating to me.

    in any case, i believe, and so does our marriage counselor, that when one person in a marriage decides to stop having sex or being otherwise physically affectionate to the reasonable satisfaction of the other, that person is violating the terms of the contract of marriage. and terms, really, it's just one term, and that is the agreement to help each other meet your needs, whatever those are.

    i try not to have any needs that i can't fulfill on my own, but there is one need that i have, that i have always had. that need is well documented over the last 12 years on this website. i want to feel loved. the way i feel loved is by feeling connected. i feel connected to sorabjis through our communication here. i feel connected to my spouse through communication and physical touch/sex.

    i have made this need very, very clear to my spouse.

    he enjoys displaying his love in a different way that is very much appreciated as a practical benefit of being in a relationship, but it doesn't make me feel loved and connected to him.

    so anyway. the marriage counselor repeats to us something that helps wrap my head around the situation, and that's that we need to try to see the situation as there being a problem over there, and senor and i are a team trying to work together to solve the problem, instead of blaming each other for causing the problem.

    way easier said than done.

    in other news, i had a fanfuckingtastic birthday yesterday! i am oddly psyched to be 40.

By semillama on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 12:38 pm:

    Well put, Sarah.

    Pulling back and looking at it from a general anthropological perspective, humans, as primates, are pretty much hard-wired through evolution to both need physical affection and to give it. When a person no longer seems to need that, there's usually an underlying condition that is causing it. Of course, I'm sure your counselor has asked about depression and possible chemical imbalances, and I don't presume to suggest that's what's going on from out here in internet-land, but that could be one avenue to explore.

    What did you do for your birthday?

By sarah on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 04:27 pm:

    well, it started out like this:

    5 rounds for time

    20 GHD sit-ups
    20 one arm dumbbell overhead squats (15#)
    20 push-ups

    i'll be happy to do the math for you. that's 100 sit-ups, 100 overhead squats, 100 push-ups, in 15:18. seriously the most fun and satisfying part of my whole day.

    then i got a bunch of girlie services performed.

    then i got a nap.

    then i hung out with my kids.

    then i went out for a fancy dinner of sea scallops and cabernet. the weather was perfect so we sat outside for dinner, then went inside for dessert. dessert was a chocolaty cocktail. maybe you saw the photo on fb. a million people texted me, called me, and emailed me, or messaged me.

    i cannot think of the last time i had such an awesome day, birthday or otherwise.

By semillama on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 10:55 am:

    Nice workout. I've just started doing this, which results in that nice wobbly feeling after you've finished.

By heather on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 08:51 pm:

    It is possible that if you can't find bliss where you are, there is nowhere else to find it.

By sarah on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 10:02 pm:

    is that a trick question?

By ... on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 10:03 pm:

    i just blissed my pants

By sarah on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 10:37 pm:

    sem, those exercises look really difficult. when you're on the road a lot, there's also many exercises that can be performed using only a set of barbells.

By sarah on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 10:38 pm:

    i think you can find bliss everywhere.

    you just have to look for it.

    right, swine?

    look for bliss.

By Dr Pepper on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 12:54 am:

    Sarah, I don't think I can do this sit-ups. But, what is "GHD?".

By J on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 01:46 am:

    Is there a good way to do this while you're smoking and holding a .....?

By heather on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 01:58 am:

    I have a feeling that I don't have enough information. Words get a bit muddled when someone talks in codes and secrets.

    For me, the only place to look for bliss is here. Which is kind of the same as everywhere, as long as we're talking inside everywhere and not outside everywhere.

    But do I believe in bliss? [A Tao that can be tao-ed is not lasting Tao.]

    It's a really crazy realization I've had this year, have I told you? I've tried to say it but it's hard to say and it ends up sounding floofy and annoying.

    And now I yell or something which is what I do when the words I write/say sound icky and/or douchey but I couldn't think of any other way to say it.

By sarah on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 10:46 am:

    i've been trying to tell you the same thing, actually. a realization this year as i study the sutras and dig deeper into all 8 arms of yoga, particularly bahkti yoga.

    the hare krishna thing i am not joking about or speaking about in codes. sure, it's just one path of many that one can take to get plugged in to the krishna consciousness - which is just another way of saying

    infinite bliss
    peace of mind
    connectedness to everything without attachment, without achievement

    what, in plain words, is the crazy realization you've had this year?

By semillama on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 03:10 pm:

    The exercises are not that hard, but are probably more difficult if you don't have a good sense of balance. I'm not to the point where I can complete full sets of the push ups or go 60 seconds with the planks.

By sarah on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 12:28 pm:

    balance and body weight are exactly why yogis are so buff. and gymnasts! yogis use little or no equipment though.

By Daniel on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 02:51 pm:

    "The ego is not a thing but a subtle effort, and you cannot use
    effort to get rid of effort - you end up with two efforts instead
    of one. The ego itself is a perfect manifestation of the Divine,
    and it is best handled by resting in Freedom, not by trying
    to get rid of it, which simply increases the effort of the ego

    -- Ken Wilbur

By heather on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 05:21 pm:

    I'm not ignoring your question Sarah, there are just so many in a way and yet they all distill to a few or one thing that I might not have words for.

    And today I am just feeling badly. It doesn't even make a lot of sense to feel anything. 6 months ago a (now ex) very good friend got together with a very recent ex of mine and suddenly a lot of my places didn't feel very good. I heard a rumor that there was a calling off. I guess I had the hopes of having my places back, but now it's all Once More, With Feeling. And some of my feelings seem to have decided to start over again as well.

By Daniel on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 07:14 pm:

    I have been swimming in the sacred for days now:

    There is no vocalization, moaning, screaming or cooing in bliss. There is no ego available to jump up and look at the clock and start cataloging what happened. One is incapacitated in bliss for hours after the event. After the inner-conjunction one literally feels and behaves like Jesus Christ. When motor coordination returns any stored charge or tension in the neuromuscular system has been expended so there is a great relaxation of the tissues. Hours after this hyper-relaxation we could however flip into a radical contraction, almost like it's a response to being opened too much, but it's simply the aftermath and counter play of the chemicals.

    During extreme events such as an inner-conjunction (10,000 orgs) you cannot consciously direct energy because you are paralyzed and have no ego, but you can direct the normal flow of kundalini energy. For example, by drawing it up the back to avoid wimping out, or by focusing with the minds eye coupled with breathing on the solar plexus to recover some will and clarity and overcome excessive bliss.

    Note you can also have the chemistry of an inner-conjunction experience that involves extreme terror rather than extreme bliss. This Electric-Dark Night is the same intensity of energy rushing through the body and exploding the head, but in a "bad trip" sense. We may not have a "bad trip" inner-conjunction with every awakening. I only had one during my first because of a pre-conscious body knowledge of my fathers upcoming death, coupled with the fact that I had no idea what kundalini or awakenings were at the time. The shock of kundalini in a neophyte body might predispose us to having a dark-night inner-conjunction.

    I don't think that "bad trip" inner-conjunctions often occur in normal healthy individuals (in benign circumstances) because of the years of priming prior to the event and because the climax only happens during a period of maximum heart expansion when the psycho-somatic resistance that normally prevents a conjunction has been removed. An inner-conjunction sparked off by a drug experience, or by stressful circumstances, however, could turn nasty because the bodymind has simply not prepared itself for this zenith chemistry.

    Or something to that effect.

By Antigone on Saturday, October 16, 2010 - 03:32 am:

    My cat Max just died.

    He was about fifteen years old, and had been heading
    downhill for a while, so it wasn't unexpected, but it happened
    so quickly. This morning his breathing seemed a little
    labored, but nothin out of the ordinary. A few hours ago I
    found him dead.

    I'll miss you, buddy.

By platypus on Saturday, October 16, 2010 - 10:42 am:

    Oh, Antigone. *hugs* I'm so sorry. It's really hard
    when they've been with you so long. I'm glad it at
    least happened quickly.

By Dr Pepper on Saturday, October 16, 2010 - 12:17 pm:

    Antigone, I am sorry to hear about that, hoped things will go better soon.

By patrick on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 11:02 am:

    bummer tiggy. sorry to hear that.

By wisper on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 12:01 am:

    im sorry tig :(

By Dr Pepper on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 02:51 am:


By platypus on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 04:39 pm:

    I have joined Antigone in the Dead Cat Club,
    evidently. Mr. Shadow just passed. I've had him
    since Caspar days, so this feels really weird.

By sarah on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 05:47 pm:

    oh, i'm so sorry for you both!

    farewell Mr. Shadow and Max.

By Antigone on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 10:34 pm:

    Yes, Pep?

By Dr Pepper on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 11:52 am:

    Hi, how are you doing?

By Daniel on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 12:37 pm:

    I thought my kitie was in the ddeath throes last night but it was a trio of fat cat raccoons on my deck serenading each other with cries of sexual disintegrity. But I thought it was Doggie, my cat dying. Sorry to hear of your losses. I am not sure if I could quantify grief over this cat that adopted me; she has been with me through so very very much.

    Do we have somewhere on flikr sorabji cat pics?

By patrick on Thursday, October 21, 2010 - 12:21 am:

    aye. sorry kitty mourners.

    subscribing to the convention of being a dog lover (vs. cat lover) i would say im a dog person. yet i love and adore and share emotion with all critters when possible. with my ex, we had two cats that i grew to adore and were very much apart of our family. i lost one and had to let go of another due in part to the my divorce, however their personalities and contribution to the health and happiness to our family at the time was treasured.

    again, sorry for the tigster and ms platyplat for your losses. be sure they are having a ball rounding up all the fucktard humans who somehow found themselves on the shit side of shit running like a mother as a four legged rodent on the astral plane.

By Dr Pepper on Thursday, October 21, 2010 - 12:48 am:

    Daniel, I think your story sounding like a metaphor....

By Antigone on Thursday, October 21, 2010 - 12:56 am:

    So my wife threatened to move out today. Why, you ask? What

    I payed off her credit card balance, which had just passed five

    That was a "betrayal of trust," apparently. The times when I gave
    her money to pay down the card, only to find out she spent it on
    other things, was not a "betrayal of trust" I guess.

    It's not like she doesn't have money. She makes about half of
    what I do on her own, and I make more than a decent wage. I
    say "make," but it's actually a stipend from her father, so she
    doesn't have to work. But this isn't enough, so she spends more
    money than we have. (Her current debt was accrued in six
    months...) Her father gave me some money to help pay the debt,
    but he won't give her any money directly anymore, apart from the
    stipend. And because I did what I told her father I would do (and
    what I told her I would do) and paid off the credit card, she
    threatened to take my daughter and leave.

    That was twelve hours ago, and now she acts like it didn't
    happen, and doesn't want to talk about it. She won't tell me why
    she wanted the money for herself instead of paying off the credit
    card, only that she has "other debts to pay." She's changed the
    password to our online banking. (To an account that has my
    name on it.) I'm not quite at the end of my rope, but I'm getting
    there pretty quick.

By heather on Thursday, October 21, 2010 - 02:04 am:

    Can you freeze the shared accounts and open your own?

    I have no experience at all with this, but does she have some sort of addiction issue?

    My only advice is make yourself safe.

    When people start making accusations that make no sense, stop and take a slow and careful look.

    Grace to everyone.

By wisper on Thursday, October 21, 2010 - 06:35 am:

    :( platy so sorry. xoxo

    :(((( anti, shit man. Like heather says, keep
    yourself safe.

By platypus on Thursday, October 21, 2010 - 10:16 am:

    Yikes, antigone. I wish I had words of wisdom/advice
    here. Like heather says, keep yourself safe. (And
    maybe go into/call the bank to see about a password
    reset? Being locked out of your accounts sounds like
    bad news bears to me.

By J on Thursday, October 21, 2010 - 11:34 am:

    You need to get your bank situation taken care of ASAP!!!
    Tiggy,I feel so bad for you but you have got to look out for yourself and that precious little girl.
    Does she have a gambling or drug problem you don't know about? You need to find out what her "debts" are.

By sarah on Thursday, October 21, 2010 - 11:38 am:

    other debts to pay. other debts that you don't know about. the hell?

    that ain't right, Tig. people in a safe, respectful marriage don't behave secretively when it comes to money.

    please be careful.

By semillama on Thursday, October 21, 2010 - 01:47 pm:

    I really hate to say this, Antigone, but have you retained the services of a good lawyer yet? I hope you can work things out, but from what you are saying, it seems to me it's probably at the point where you need to think defensively in terms of your welfare and your daughter's.

By kazu on Thursday, October 21, 2010 - 04:09 pm:

    Was she given narcotics for her back problems?

    You definitely need to find out what those "other" debts are. Talk to a lawyer first. And I know it sounds so very underhanded, but you might also consider hiring a private investigator. I know from very painful, personal experience why this may be necessary. Send me a message on facebook and I'll tell you more than I am comfortable saying here.

By Antigone on Thursday, October 21, 2010 - 06:52 pm:

    She is a very devoted mother, so I have no fears for my
    daughter's safety. (Though I must admit to a little bit of panic
    yesterday.) If anything she is too devoted, and often refuses
    to ask for help from me, and even actively pushes me away
    or otherwise makes helping difficult. (And then blames me for
    not being there for her, of course.)

    The account she cut off was her own that she added my
    name to a couple of years ago. It only has her money in it
    (which all comes from her father) so we're in no financial
    danger, apart from her excessive debt taking.

    Yep, kazu, she was given narcotis for her back, and for
    various other medical problems, all valid. She has had
    several surgeries over the last year, and so has ample reason
    to be in pain and to have emotional distress. And I know that
    can lead to irrationality about all sorts of things which is why I
    try to not overreact. (Or underreact...) That's why I'm not even
    considering a lawyer or PI at this point. (But I am being very
    vigilant.) She does display, and readily admits to, addictive

By Daniel on Thursday, October 21, 2010 - 07:43 pm:

    tig, you got my cell number? anytime.

By Antigone on Thursday, October 21, 2010 - 11:25 pm:

    Nope. Are you on facebook? I'm reluctant to post my email now
    that I've been all confessional and whatnot, but I'm sure you can get
    it from someone else here if you don't have it already.

By Dr Pepper on Friday, October 22, 2010 - 01:39 am:

    Geez, sound like a horror. I am really am sorry for the pain that you are going through. My mom and dad got divorced, the whole thing was messed up, mom accusing my dad being a smart ass, that what my mother said, but dad always been smart aleck. that is all, but I haven't seen or spoke to him, cause, I really don't wanted to see him anymore, he a totally claustrophic failure on communication. That is all. But, I don't know if I can get married again to different lady, since my last divorce from my late ex-wife was a painful experience, and yes, I do worried on my children.

By Dr Pepper on Friday, October 22, 2010 - 01:39 am:

    Geez, sound like a horror. I am really am sorry for the pain that you are going through. My mom and dad got divorced, the whole thing was messed up, mom accusing my dad being a smart ass, that what my mother said, but dad always been smart aleck. that is all, but I haven't seen or spoke to him, cause, I really don't wanted to see him anymore, he a totally claustrophic failure on communication. That is all. But, I don't know if I can get married again to different lady, since my last divorce from my late ex-wife was a painful experience, and yes, I do worried on my children.

By patrick on Friday, October 22, 2010 - 01:03 pm:

    regardless if the money was hers in the beginning, there's a little legal thing called co-mingling. and presuming there's no prenup, her money is your money and her debt is also your debt. if she defaults, they will come after you being her spouse.

    She's being irrational and you two should see a therapist. If you are committed to the relationship, a goood therapist can help you guys navigate this, offer good neutral 3rd party advise.

    sorry to hear youre dealing with this.

    for the kids sake, you two should do everything you possibly can to fix this and not make irrational threats like she did.

    good luck.

By Antigone on Friday, October 22, 2010 - 02:50 pm:

    We were seeing a therapist, but she wants to stop. (At least
    stop going to the one we were seeing. She says she wants
    to continue, but I haven't seen it yet.)

    I know about the comingling thing, but I avoided asserting
    myself too much in money matters as much as possible when
    it came to gifts from her father. In this case, though, he told
    me specifically to handle it so I felt comfortable doing so.

By semillama on Friday, October 22, 2010 - 05:12 pm:

    Maybe you should talk with her father about it. If he trusts you enough to handle the debt, but not her, than you probably have an ally there. I hope you can figure things out, but don't wait too long for things to sort themselves out - you probably won't like the outcome.

By Daniel on Friday, October 22, 2010 - 05:22 pm:

    FB has my email on profile page. The problem is finding me aomng the other Daniel Smiths of the world. (I am in under smith because of the witness protection program) so here (as you are not on the Sorabji spreadsheet of doom...which is a great place to find emails and phone numbers of a few of us. Ask agatha how to update or add your info to the famous spreadsheet used for candy exchange). so here it is bet no more (with NO spaces and all one word) at g (as in google) mail dot com. And my cell is backwards 0442562413 but then again I am not afriad of indiscriminate spammers who probably can't transpose anyways. Seen at a dyslexics convention: Bad Speller Untie!

By ReppeP rD on Friday, October 22, 2010 - 10:19 pm:

    Daniel, I use that number backwards of my credit card number on my small notebook, in just case if my wallet goes lost or missing or stolen, so that I can call the 800 number to report it. I thought I am the only one who use this as a "secret number".

By sarah on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 - 01:24 pm:

    Tig. what's going on with your wife and all that weird mess? if you care to share, i care to listen.

By heather on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 - 01:49 pm:

    I've been curious, too. Hope all are well.

By Czarina on Monday, June 6, 2011 - 01:40 pm:

    Oh Tiglet, I'm so sorry to hear of your troubles.
    Be very vigilant.
    Unfortunately, this is the area I work in.[until recently]
    Even if narcotics are prescribed, that doesn't mean they don't
    alter our thinking process. Even if pain is justified, narcotic
    abuse is tearing family's apart all across the world.

    Be sure and stay on your Tiggy toes. Secretive money activities
    must fall under suspicion. Remember, people on meds don't
    always think rationally.

    If I can help,or if you need to talk....

    Don't be afraid to take action, do whats best for your family.

    My thoughts are with you.

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