When is it 'long enough' before you've known someone to have sex

sorabji.com: Sex: When is it 'long enough' before you've known someone to have sex

By The Dinner Lady on Friday, September 3, 1999 - 03:54 pm:

    I'm not a virgin, I'm 32 fucking years old (har har - get it?) but I really don't know if I should screw this guy or wot. I have started dating this man who is 38, he's quite funny looking and balding but he has to be one of the most exciting kissers/gropers I've ever encountered. Here's the dilema: It seems that before our relationship got all physical we were having much more intimate and fulfilling conversation, now that we've spent a few dates pushing the limits of fun you can have with your clothes on I feel a bit removed from him. I really enjoy him, but I feel like I like interacting with him less now that I think about fucking him more. We have a date for Saturday and I was gonna make him dinner at my house (and fuck him but I didn't reveal that part yet). Sometimes though I'm a bit worried that screwing him now might limit the lifespan of the relationship in the near future and I don't want to be accused of having sex too soon. I've known him about a month and a half (and met him on the web - dear God!) and he's very smart and pleasant and seems thoughtful and funny and has a history of long term relationships (domesticated it would seem). Am I just being paranoid or should I just fuck him which is what my whole body would thank me for doing?

    (I suppose really I should just tell him what I'm thinking and get it out with)

By J on Friday, September 3, 1999 - 04:03 pm:

    For the love of God do it,you want it,he wants it,you should have done it yesterday!!!Your making him dinner too?The guy will think he died and went to heaven!!Fuck his brains out,shag him once for me,just for the Hell of it.

By The Dinner Lady on Friday, September 3, 1999 - 04:37 pm:

    Ya, but will I ever see him again?

    But then again, who could argue with dinner and a shag? That seems rationally the sort of stuff men would come back for - .. girl issues about 'what you want me for' I reckon, but like, what do I want him for? A shag!

    (but please keep that advice coming)

By Waffles on Friday, September 3, 1999 - 05:21 pm:

    fuck him silly.......cooking for him is indeed a way to man's heart............that gift between your legs is another path to his heart. I can tell you, if it were me in his shoes.........you wouldn't be able to get rid of me. In fact my wife(amongst other things) won my heart through her famous chicken and rice....and well you know......the rest of it.....
    The way i see it you have nothing to loose......

    we expect a full report on monday

By The Dinner Lady on Friday, September 3, 1999 - 05:44 pm:

    Man, yawl are probably right. I am thinking about fucking him all the time (really!). And it's getting in the way of my life (all those trips to the bathroom here at work - eek!). I may just have to do it, to save myself more undue agony. Surely most men upon hearing about the sort of lust they have raised in you would be in for a bit if not only for the enormous ego stroke (I think I wowed him last time by telling him I had sexual fantasies about him on our first date - hee hee). And really, this will be our 5th or 6th date and he's been coughing up the $ and making calls and greeting me with kisses and holding my hand in public which really doesn't seem like the guy who's dying to run off as soon as actual pussy comes his way. I just have never really gone out with someone who you go on dates with. I usually hook up with some long time acquaintance who then I have a short and too demanding tryst with. It really is virgin territory for me here this going to dinner and him paying or going for drives, or what not, it is really kooky.

By Cyst on Friday, September 3, 1999 - 05:53 pm:

    fuck him.

By Waffles on Friday, September 3, 1999 - 05:53 pm:

    you wann do something really wacky, pay for him a few times in a row.......even though men will incessantly whip out their wallets for a woman they are chasing, it helps to demonstrate that you are not gold diggin

By Nate on Friday, September 3, 1999 - 07:32 pm:

    definitely do not fuck him.

    just kidding.

    fuck him.

By Bettey on Friday, September 3, 1999 - 10:57 pm:

    Well, just to put it in perspective, I met a man online and ended up fucking him the first time I met him. You are way overdue!

By FETIDBEAVER on Saturday, September 4, 1999 - 01:08 am:

    FUCK HIM!! He's not going to "run off"
    any guy willing to spend 1 1/2 months with you and without the pussy isn't in it for the quick exit. Unless of course you have a fetidbeaver....

By Gee on Saturday, September 4, 1999 - 01:10 am:

    I'm such a rebel. Don't sleep with him.

    If you DO sleep with him, two things may happen: (1) you'll love it and him and everything will be swell. (2) you'll love it and him and continue to grow apart and end up not so happy and apart.

    If you DON'T sleep with him, two things may happen: (1) you'll wait till your relationship gets stronger and sleep with him and love it and him and everythign will be swell. (2) You'll wait and discover that you two aren't quite as meant-for-each-other as you thought you were.

    But then, this theory is based on my belief that (for me, anyway) sex is more than just a physical act. I know others here don't feel that way, and I can see their point of view, but for me, it's more than just two bodies slamming against each other (which is why I could never do the kind of one night thing wisper described in another thread). It's a very deep emotional investment for me.

    For me personally, if I see troubles in a relationship with someone, I won't sleep with them until it's worked out, no matter how much I may want too.

    Oh well.

By Waffles on Saturday, September 4, 1999 - 05:03 pm:

    don't listen to her

By The Dinner Lady on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 11:05 am:

    Well it's Tuesday and that means it's


    When we last tuned in, we had no idea if Dinner Lady and her mark would be hooking up or what. Well, here's the poop.

    I did go out and buy a flock of new bras and I did make a thoroughly fabulous meal if I do say so myself. He showed up, was affectionate, we chatted, I cooked, we ate, we fooled around some, he said 'I can't stay the night' (he lives about 45 min away. I was like 'Why not?' thinking - 'look, if you're gonna fuck me, you're gonna sleep here I'm not letting you just pick up and leave'. Anyhoo, it would seem that I was not the only one wondering 'Should this go somewhere or not or what...' and 'Dating is totally fucked up' etc. so anyway this all led to at least our first REAL conversation about this budding 'relationship' which was long overdue if you ask me and was pretty refreshing. He then told me he didn't want to have sex yet because he didn't want to fuck this up and wind up in a situation where he was now in deep with me and then panics and flees (has happened before). Fair enough thinks I (though somewhat disappointed but all this talk didn't really make for a super sexy start I must say) and respects his boundaries whatever, actually I think it's pretty respectable for a man to set some sexual limits since it is uncommon and takes some bravery/self knowledge/....

    BUT OF COURSE, THAT'S NOT THE END. After this, there is a bit more laying about and talking about said topic and other stuff but 20 minutes later one of us (guess) is totally nude getting our puss sucked dry by someone who it would seem didn't want to go that far due to their previous statements. Then about a half hour later he left. (fear not fans, he called me Monday looking for a date but I no can do)

    Well boys and girls. I think the surprising thing here is that I think he's more serious about me than I am about him. I mean, I like him and he is sexy but I'm not in love yet or anything, in fact, I find myself decidedly on the fence and though sex is a lot o' fun I don't think it really would change much in that way. What I think I'm realizing is you can fuck all ya like, but real emotional/personal intimacy takes time and just can't be accelerated.

    The funny things about it all in retrospect are:
    1) Him telling me 'I don't want to take advantage of you' while I am nude in bed and ready to have sex. I mean, it is obvious HE is the one who is afraid that he will be emotionally overwhelmed by having sex with me. I have allowed him to make believe I am the one who really needs to be protected here though if he knew about my sex life up till now he'd know that this is not really where it's at.
    2) The thought that 'oral sex doesn't count'. If there's nudity and orgasms, baby, that's sex to me. I think we had sex, he thinks we didn't. Whatever works fer you buddy. But I could keep on having 'not sex' like this for quite a while.

    Anyhoo, I'm gonna be too busy to see him for another week so maybe this will give him some time to get deeply in heat for me upon my return. That I would like.

    Please feel free to comment further all as I love your feedback!!

By J on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 12:16 pm:

    Score!!!He went down on you,it was good,and your going to put him off for a week?Are you crazy?Maybe just lucky.You go girl!!

By The Dinner Lady on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 12:27 pm:

    I was thinking of calling him today,... I dunno. I just want to make sure he's not freaking out which despite his protestations I think he is. Thanks J.

By J on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 12:32 pm:

    Your welcome,call him,you deserve it.

By Waffles on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 12:41 pm:

    do not call him, what a wuss, he drove all that way for no nookie........maybe the viagra didn't work, maybe he has other insecurities or problems. Did he ever loose his shorts, did you verify maximum stiffness...i suspect he has problems that prevented him from staying.....maybe he had to go to church and forgot his loafers at least you got yours....shame to make a nice dinner with no rewards.....i can't think of anything that would prevent me from staying the night with a women i dug who just made me dinner......i mean even if i had to go to church, i would have brought my clothes or whatever......don't call him, make him work for......if he doesn't call in a few days, you know the truth..

By Cyst on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 12:42 pm:

    dinner lady -

    the next time you go out with a new guy, do not tell him your sexual fantasies about him on your first date. even if he's that cute or whatever.

    gush on the first date is bad. on either side. act interested, but don't lay it on thick.

    even if he says he's impressed with your candor and likes to hear it, it could mean that on the fifth date or whatever, he may start freaking out that things are getting too deep too soon.

By Cyst on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 12:47 pm:

    and don't keep making him dinner.

    it's ok to do the housewife show once, if he makes a meal for you next time or if he takes you out for a really super expensive meal or something.

    but don't act like you're trying out for a part, you know?

    I don't necessarily recommend this to others, but if I'm interested in a guy, I like to go out and split the bills. unless it's some special occasion.

By J on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 12:49 pm:

    But he did 69 her,and thats good in my book.

By Cyst on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 01:02 pm:

    any guy can lick a twat. find a guy who can fix your car and tell you when he's pissed at you.

By Waffles on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 01:04 pm:

    cyst, cooking for someone, and happening to be woman does not indicate a "housewife syndrome".......... thats lame........being a stereotypical "housewife" is more of state of mind........a women who is subservient, without question, completely dependent on the man.......i hardly think our dinner lady played this role....if she enjoys cooking, share her talents, i like cooking, i do it for my wife more than she....it hardly implys a subservient role i play with my wife.......dinner lady, if you love to cook and love to share....then do it whenever you feel like it.....every see the movie like water for chocolate......good good good good good

By Waffles on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 01:06 pm:

    i can do all three roughly at the same time and have a pot roast simmering in the oven ,but i am taken

By Cyst on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 01:18 pm:

    I shouldn't be giving romantic advice. although this is the part I know -- hooking the man. still don't know shit about what to do once you bring him up all flopping and flailing out of the water.

    you don't need to put all your talents on the table at once. save stuff, especially the at-home things. cooking for someone in your home is really intimate, I think. just having someone in your home is intimate. I don't even like to have prospective guys come over until later.

    last summer some rich guy wanted to wine me and dine me, and I didn't want him in my car or house. so I told him he could come over but that I would meet him outside.

    anyway, I doubt he was too insulted because I know he sort of fell for me and because he spent the rest of that night, after I left him to go meet up with a poorer date to smoke pot and watch porn, drinking alone and having a friend come and get him and drive him home.

    guys actually like it when you don't put everything on the table at once. seriously.

By J on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 01:18 pm:

    Damn it,he cooks,he taken,life is cruel.

By The Dinner Lady on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 01:49 pm:

    Misunderstandings cleared up here.

    1) I did not tell this man my sexual fantasies on the first date. Told him on the 4th date when half nude that I had fantasies about him on the 1st date. He was bowled over. He's not a big looker so I think he was excited to feel desirable. He came back for more.

    2) Dinner was Saturday nite, he called Monday afternoon looking for another date before I go away Thurs. Told him I was pretty booked. May squeeze him in beforehand, maybe not.

    3) Oh yes, there was no viagra problem, there was some seriously hard cock in his pants, like a fucking rock - thick too. He seems to think if we screw now that it's too soon and then he'll freak out over things going too fast and then he'll want to evaporate (In my mind maybe he should control his appetite to evaporate afterwards rather than your appetite to screw now). Honestly, methinks he's looking for lurve which is sort of sweet. The oral was fab, and he went home happily stinking like a twat. Boys... so silly

    As for 'trying out for a part' I like making dinner. It's fun, and I so rarely date any men who can afford to buy me (or themselves) dinner it's a thrill that this man does. I'll be letting him do it as much as he wants. Besides, he obviously likes it. Some masculine thrill? And I do pay sometimes 'cuz it's really not in my nature to allow someone else to foot the bill for my life. With the oral and the phone calls I'm happy. Just hafta see.

By J on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 01:59 pm:

    You get on that horse and ride cowgirl,I,m proud of you.

By The Dinner Lady on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 01:59 pm:

    Not any guy can lick a twat RIGHT - though plenty can do it wrong or half-assed, I hate that.. There are definite degrees of proficiency. As for you Waffles, I love a man who can cook and it is a damn shame you are taken. My date did subsequently say he wanted me to come out to his house (where I've never been) and see it when we talked yesterday. He is hooked, and why wouldn't he be? I think he's just under the impression he's trying to be good and/or that women have sex with you either 1) think you'll be getting married soon 2) do it for you. I think he hasn't quite realised his own vulnerabilities yet so he's put them on me.

By Waffles on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 02:16 pm:

    last night i made this..........

    My chili recipe

    1 large onion
    1 large pepper
    habnero pepper (in granulated form)
    6 8oz cans of mexican tomato sauce
    mixed assortment of dried mexican pinto beans
    1 can beef broth
    3 tblspoons of olive oil
    4 cloves of garlic
    1 12oz can of stewed tomatos
    1 1/2 lbd of ground turkey/beef/deer/road kill
    4 tblspoons of chili pepper
    1 tblspoon of red pepper
    1 tblspn of cumin

    First, strip of all clothes with the exception of your cylindrical chef's hat and apron.

    Second, soak dry beans overnight or if you forgot like me, boil them hard for three hours, change water twice

    dice pepper, onion and garlic. saute in olive oil until lightly brown. remove and brown your turkey in that same pan you used for the onion and pepper

    mix, meat, peppers/onion/garlic and spices and simmer for few minutes. slowly add the one can of stewed tomatos, mexican tomato sauce, and beef broth, when simmering, add beans.......

    simmer for at least 1 hour.....add flour to achieve desired THICKNESS

    mix up a batch of white rice...............and serve chili over rice, with a spoonful of plain yogurt. Also throw a handful of cheddar on top.

    the shit is hot, damn hot, but the excitement in your mouth is balanced with the rice and the yogurt.......and after a bowl of this stuff, you will find your metabolism running at it's peak and yer ready for another.................

By Waffles on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 02:18 pm:

    and you are right, dinner lady, it took me several years to learn how to make my wife come like that........men are just confused at times,

By The Dinner Lady on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 02:33 pm:

    Waffles - You rock out that you actually reprinted a recipie. You are my kinda fella. Now you have me in the mood for chili. Damn! I once had a big crush on a man who told me he made Thanksgiving dinner at his house and had 2 turkeys going at the same time to feed all. <<sigh>>

    This is the really easy meal I made fer the fella (since we are now totally home and garden Sorabi)

    1 1/2 lbs Chicken breasts (de-boned) buy the fancy free range type it makes a big big difference.

    3 lemons, juiced (fresh no cheating)

    3 tablespoons olive oil

    2 tablespoons butter

    20-40 leaves fresh sage (no cheating fresh!)

    1) combine the lemon juice, 3 tablespoons olive oil and sage together and marinate chicken for at least 30 minutes.

    2) When all lemonny-good melt the butter in a big fry pan and cook the chicken through about 5-7 min on either side, sprinkle liberally w/. salt n' pepper on both sides.

    3) When chicken is cooked through put on serving plate, discard butter from pan, and put the leftover lemon marinade n' sage in the frypan and bring to a slow boil. Then pour over the chicken on serving plate.

    This sounds unbelievably simple but it is a a really flavorful and fancy looking recipie with very little work. Knocks out gents and ladies every time.

    I had a dream about Julia Child last night, BTW, that I was interviewing her and she was really really cool.

By J on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 03:09 pm:

    I had a house full of people here for a party.I made fried chicken,get some legs and thighs,coat in flour,salt,pepper.and papricka,then dip in a mixture of one egg and two tablespoons of water,then dip in flour again,then fry.It comes out sooo crispy,I don,t even have any leftovers.

By Waffles on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 03:14 pm:

    mmmmmmmmmmmmlegs & thighs

By Jim aka PajamaBoy on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 03:34 pm:

    This is one guy who has never and will never be found licking a twat.

By Jim aka PajamaBoy on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 03:35 pm:

    Not that there's anything WRONG with that.

By Fetidbeaver on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 10:49 pm:

    I've read over the thread twice and unless I'm brain damaged I don't see that 69 happened. 68 maybe, but no 69.

    68=you suck me and I'll owe you 1.

    Personal note to pjboy, you haven't lived until you've licked menstrating twat. :>

By Lawanda on Tuesday, September 7, 1999 - 10:57 pm:

    I always thought "twat" was the butt, not a woman's privates. I just tried to look it up in my Thorndike dictionary, but it's not there.

    What's a typical housewife do these days anyway? Simon and I don't really split the household tasks, but I feel the work is equivellently split along our talents. I have never bought into the "don't do this or that" style of dating. Give what you want, if the person doesn't reciprocate based on their streagnths, then it isn't meant to be.

    Man, if that's "no sex", sign me up! Of course, I'd go insane if the guy didn't get naked and do the deed eventually.

By Cyst on Wednesday, September 8, 1999 - 12:10 am:

    all I'm saying is I wouldn't be cooking dinner repeatedly in the first five or so dates. I don't remember dating any guys who didn't want to have sex, so I don't know what the hell is up with that.

By Antigone on Wednesday, September 8, 1999 - 01:22 am:

    I don't completely know what's up with it, and I just did it a couple of nights ago. The "guy not wanting to have sex" thing, that is... Here's the scoop: I just went out on a date with a friend from my church group on Saturday. The date went well. We had a great time, she saw my incredibly dirty apartment and didn't freak out screaming and running in terror. An altogether good evening. Anyway, the group had a party on Sunday night, but she couldn't go. So, she says, "Come over afterwards and tell me how it went." Afterwards was 12:30 in the morning, but she said she was going to be up late anyway. I think, "uh huh. You want me to come over at midnight and chat about the party...?" So when I get over there she's wearing pajama bottoms and a thin tank top. Yow! We start to talk about this and that, eventually getting around to the whole relationship history chat, likes, dislikes, the whole schmear, until 4:30am. It turns out that she's a remarkably honest and straightforward person, which was exactly what I'd hoped. I'm getting sleepy, though, and I say it's about time I get home.
    She walks me to my car, we kiss briefly, and then I drive off.

    I get five minutes towards home when it hits me: I really want to kiss her more! Shit! What the hell was I thinking?!

    So I drive back and knock on her door. She comes out in a nightie (already half asleep) and says, "What did you forget?" I say, "I forgot to give you a decent good night kiss..." I see the flash of her smile, and then we're lip locked for about
    twenty seconds. She even bit my lower lip a couple of times. Yee haw!

    But then I said goodnight and left...

    Why didn't I stay for a little nookie? Well, for some reason that baffles me completely, all of my prior relationships have gotten physical really quickly. It baffles me because I don't consider myself all that physically attractive. Anyway, I want to see what it's like to have an emotional bond before the physical stuff gets heavy. I inevitably become emotionally attached
    to a woman I have sex with, and that's come back to burn me, especially in my last relationship. It sounds cheesy, but I'd like us to be in love before we have sex. Maybe that way I'll know whether the love is real, or if I'm just getting infatuated again...

    So, that's a "guy who didn't want to have sex" story.

By Cyst on Wednesday, September 8, 1999 - 02:28 am:

    wow. having the guy come back and say that would even warm my icy little heart. brilliant!

    the pajama and tank top look is really fucking hot, isn't it?

By Gee on Wednesday, September 8, 1999 - 02:34 am:

    Cyst - Never in my life have I ever gone out with a guy who's let me pay for anything. I would ask All of them, but none of them would let me, no matter how many times I insisted that it "was only fair". After a while I got used to the fact that they didn't seem to expect anything in return for paying my way, and just decided to not ask for a whole heck of a lot. I'm not compleatly comfterble with letting other people pay my way, but I can tell they're not comfterble with letting Me pay my way, so when they'd buy me supper, I'd deliberatly get something small and inexpensive. I just re-read this, and it seems really weird. I'm not normal.

    Anti - I think that's sweet. I hope you can make it. It's hard to Not get physical, but I'm betting it's worth it. At least it's worth a try. I've always been a pretty fast mover (usually emotionally, more than phsycally) and it's alawys screwed me over. But the boy I've got my heart set on right now...I'm making a Huge effort to take things extra special slow with him. It's hard. It's really really hard. I've never really had dirty kinky day dreams about him (I did dream about kissing him, but it was a very mellow kiss with no tongue down my throat) and it pleases me. It pleases me very much. There's a Lot to be said for taking things slowly.

    I have not yet kissed him. I'm not planning on it, either. With every other guy I'd be obsessing on it and plotting ways to make it happen, but this time I'm just gonna relax and let it happen whenever it happens. I'm enjoying it so much.

By Cyst on Wednesday, September 8, 1999 - 02:52 am:

    my best memories of an old relationship are from before we went out, before I was sure that he liked me.

    he was at a party and I walked home with a girlfriend who lived near me.

    I was drunk and it was snowing and I told her, with complete sincerity, "christine, I am afraid to do anything because I WILL DIE if he doesn't like me back."

    those months of working together, being friends, getting drunk, sharing far-away hotel rooms, spending all that time together and wondering if the world could possibly be so good that he could like me back -- that was the best part.

    that stage ended when he said he would help me clean out my old apartment when I had to move. that is just not an I-really-appreciate-your-friendship offer.

By J on Wednesday, September 8, 1999 - 09:45 am:

    Antigone sure sounds sweet.

By Waffles on Wednesday, September 8, 1999 - 12:50 pm:

    god this osunds like a bad episode of saved by the bell.....where's nate when i need him......antigone, that is really sweet, sounds like somethign i would do....despite whay ou all might think..I AM indeed a sensitive male....I am fortunate in this repsect......I get attached fast whether nookies in the play or not....so it doesn't matter, so before i scare her off with getting attached at least i 'll get some and have agood time......i was attached to my wife the first night i planted on on her lips....i was a puppy dog, she told me repeatedly for weeks she didn't want a serious relationship......i have a notebook full of the poems i faxed her 50-10 times ADAY........when i was interning at Glaxo Wellcome!!!! I had nothing to do all day but write........i have never ever ever wrote like i did that first year we were together.....but i am also the type of person to seize the day without any regard for tomm. If i have a choice of getting laid tonight and being late to work tommorow...I will be late....getting laid tonight and being sad tommorowo when she doesn't return my calls.....getting laid tonight....but what do i know, i stayed in the dating pool for all of 1 year after 18. She swept me up when i was 19 and i haven't looked back since....and the girls i dated and had sex with prior to that had major issues..........so basically i was a vigin when she got me and unbeknownst to the true pitfalls of dating......so in short...never mind

    and Gee, if you are on a date or something....i think if you are more assertive that YOU ARE going to pay, get your card on the bill faster, pick up the bill faster...what have you, he might have more respect for you in the long run.....guys are ALWAYS going to insist....what is truely a turn on is an assertive woman, who puts up a fight and TELLS you she is paying and that is that.

By Waffles on Wednesday, September 8, 1999 - 12:52 pm:

    god damn!!!!! where is my speak and spell......that should be 5-10 times a day and you can figure out the rest....my apologies

By The Dinner Lady on Wednesday, September 8, 1999 - 01:20 pm:

    Well I enjoyed Antigone's story mucho mas. I'm sure it is the same with my mark - afreared of getting too emotionally involved w/ someone before you have it sussed. I honestly find it charming that he bothers to think about this before it goes on, foresight is a commodity in our world. I too have been known to get involved very quickly physically with people and maybe that gets rid of some of the 'dating' fun, though I myself have rarely had any of that (I prefer the comfortable parts which follow where you sit around at home watching TV and making fun of people and eating soup in bed). Really, I like sex and I hate waiting. I'm impatient, even if that screws things up, and realistically I have to admit that probably my entire reason for opening said topic is because - as the title of the thread states - I wasn't sure if I should be having sex yet with this fella or not. Get it?

    I will say that I agree with Lawanda, at some point you just have to give what you are and see if they respond in kind. I've gotten too old to care about game playing - at heart I hate it and though it is necessary in some ways (like the first time you meet someone confessing your undying love might say - put them off a bit) in others it just wastes everyone's time. I think what I've liked best about this guy is that I know he likes me, he calls, he buys meals, he's kind and affectionate to me. I'm fed up with not knowing if they *really* like me or not. Time is too short to bother monkeying around. About time I was directly persued. He sure is brave.

By J on Wednesday, September 8, 1999 - 01:45 pm:

    He really likes you,now do your duty!

By Waffles on Wednesday, September 8, 1999 - 01:50 pm:

    yes ma'am........

    oh....wait..........RIGHT....you ...meant ...HER....of course.......


    i'll be in the back if anyone needs me...

By Gee on Thursday, September 9, 1999 - 01:26 am:

    Waffle - I've tried being assertive. I've tried Insisting. I've tried "come on, be fair! you paid last time!". I've gotten into arguments in the middle of resturants with each of us grabbing an edge of the bill and tugging on it. Somehow it always seems to spoil the romantic aspect of the moment.

    There was one boy I was really into, and we weren't dating but he'd always pay for me everywhere we went. In the begining when we'd go to a resturant and he wouldn't let me pay, I'd just leave the money for the check on the table anyway, right alongside his. So the waitress always got a 100% tip. I actually think that really bothered him, so I stopped doing it.

By Antigone on Thursday, September 9, 1999 - 02:03 am:

    That paying thing just baffles me. I've always been willing to go dutch. In fact, I did on my last date. She paid for part of dinner and all of the movie. I don't see why some guys have a problem with that. I mean, if I ask someone out I'm prepared to pay for all of it, but if my date wants to pay for some I'm not going to protest. It seems silly to me...

By Waffles on Thursday, September 9, 1999 - 12:32 pm:

    well, guys are programmed that that is what they are supposed to do......perhaps girls should make that insistance upon acceptance of the date offer to begin with...i don't know, i used to only isisnt once or twice and then give in before anything got ugly.......funny parents do all the time to...they never let us pay....fine i say....i won't offer but once or twice..

By J on Thursday, September 9, 1999 - 12:38 pm:

    Someone was always buying me free drinks at that pub I use to go,but then I,d buy people drinks too,it,s only right.

By Waffles on Thursday, September 9, 1999 - 01:16 pm:

    i suspect they wanted to get into your pants dear J.......which by the way.....or better yet..off the way...you should have a website J.....you should carry a little digital caera around with you........a tape recorder to get your rants and raves.......you need a website to post your drunken doings, not that we don't get plenty here........but i have to admit i am damn curisou as to what you look like.....as well as all the other sorabji folks whom ei haven't seen pics of...

By J on Thursday, September 9, 1999 - 01:48 pm:

    I,m working on it Waffles,remember my B-day is coming up,I,ve been none to subtle in dropping hints,I better not get a bowling ball.

By Waffles on Thursday, September 9, 1999 - 02:16 pm:

    be VERY wary if it has "Bruce" engraved on it and the holes are drilled for his fingers....."well honey i couldn't very well cut your fingers off to measure"......"and I wanted to remind you of me every time you roll a strike (wink wink)"

By Waffles on Thursday, September 9, 1999 - 02:16 pm:

    be VERY wary if it has "Bruce" engraved on it and the holes are drilled for his fingers....."well honey i couldn't very well cut your fingers off to measure"......"and I wanted to remind you of me every time you roll a strike (wink wink)"

By J on Thursday, September 9, 1999 - 04:03 pm:

    I will sweatpea:)

By Rhiannon on Thursday, September 9, 1999 - 04:24 pm:

    J, have you ever heard of a band called Whiskeytown?

By Markus on Thursday, September 9, 1999 - 04:48 pm:

    DL -I like your refusal to compromise on ingredients. Especially the herbery - nothing like fresh oregano, in my opinion, and it's now at it's peak. The drought has produced a particularly fine crop this season.

    Next month I start investing in All-Clads -- I'm excited except that it's coming out of the book budget.

    BTW - I think you're on track with this guy, but calling him "your mark" is starting rumors around this place.

By Waffles on Thursday, September 9, 1999 - 06:23 pm:

    incrimination complete.....

    that will be all sir, you may step down

By Nate on Thursday, September 9, 1999 - 09:43 pm:

    there were a lot of words and i got lost. can someone fill me in? did she fuck him?

By Lawanda on Thursday, September 9, 1999 - 10:22 pm:


By Nate on Friday, September 10, 1999 - 10:36 am:

    oh, thanks.

By The Dinner Lady on Monday, September 20, 1999 - 05:07 pm:

    Actually, I did at last. It was weird. By the time it happened I already felt like I had - we were already so familiar. So long in coming <har har>, but really! The first time was decidedly so so the 2nd was much better. Do people just get nervous? Of course now that we've actually slept together I will expect him to freak out and spilt. Hasn't happened yet tho, he actually called me 3 hours after he left my house - awwww!

By J on Monday, September 20, 1999 - 06:35 pm:


By Waffles on Monday, September 20, 1999 - 07:05 pm:

    right on..

    lets just say we too have made wonderful use of our day of hookey

By Semillama on Monday, September 20, 1999 - 07:16 pm:

    damn. you lucky fool.
    A woman who cooks is essential for me because I HATE it with a passion. I really do. I'm no good at it and I don't like waiting for food.

    Of course, when it comes to sex, I can be very patient. It's been four years and no one's died in a ghastly manner.

    I just read about a vulva puppet that can be used to teach peole about the different parts of the vagina. I htink it should be a requirement for every couple to have one, so everyone is clear on what is where and what to do with it.

By The Dinner Lady on Tuesday, September 21, 1999 - 01:27 pm:

    I think every woman should get one!! Unlike peni, vaginas are fulla mystery since they are innies and penises are outies if you dig what I mean.

    Y'know what's weird about this guy tho. It's so FRIENDLY, like it's nice in some ways but since we don't live in the same town we maybe see each other twice a week. When we're together he's very affectionate but on the phone or out of his mouth comes little like 'you are a fabulous babe' or such that I wouldn't mind hearing a bit more. Sometimes I wonder - like - are we GOING OUT or not. Even with the sex in the 'relationship' I feel a bit detached (which isn't totally bad I'll admit since I don't feel overwhelmingly co-dependent). Still, I feel weird saying 'are we more than just friends?' I think I'm used to men of the collapsible variety, those who become a puddle of muck, cloudy emotions and neediness as soon as you get 'involved'. A whole new world

By Simon on Tuesday, September 21, 1999 - 01:35 pm:

    I believe the proper technical term for that arrangement is "friends who fuck."

By J on Tuesday, September 21, 1999 - 01:39 pm:

    Needy men make me want to walk on them in stilletto boots and take a whip to them.

By The Dinner Lady on Tuesday, September 21, 1999 - 01:44 pm:

    I think they would like that J. But why do it for free?

By Waffles on Tuesday, September 21, 1999 - 01:48 pm:

    your turning me on J

By J on Tuesday, September 21, 1999 - 01:49 pm:

    This is true,but the ones I,d like to do it to,are so stupid they wouldn,t think to pay.

By J on Tuesday, September 21, 1999 - 03:13 pm:

    Like Sherriff Joe,what an asshole!! He,s called a press conference to "celebrate"the 3 year anniversery of his female chain gang,I,d love to whip him,what a shit that man is.

By Antigone on Friday, November 5, 2004 - 03:21 am:

    So, I'm at a party Tuesday night, an election night get together of my hyper liberal Unitarian friends. (We're all in mourning now...)

    So, M is there. (See my post above from September 8, 1999. I was on the date with M.) I've only seen her once since rather foolishly getting back together with an ex girlfriend about a week after that post.

    I still remember that date, rather vividly. Maybe she does, too...

    She mentioned that her computer was acting up. I said, "Hey, I could come over and fix it." She said, "Could you? That'd be great!"

    The next day she called and suggested we could go to dinner, too. And maybe go to her monthly astronomy club meeting. (Yes, she's smart, and hot too.)

    Wish me luck...

By moonit on Friday, November 5, 2004 - 06:23 am:

    Good luck :) I don't think you need it, I think you'll be fine.

By Gee on Friday, November 5, 2004 - 11:11 am:

    good luck, Antigone.

    you're sure it's not too soon, though?

    I read my response to your Sep/8 post, and I mention a boy in there. I have absolutly no memory of who that boy might be. what was I doing in '99? maybe it was Ron. I was quite taken with him when we met, and I think that was in '99. no, that's can't be right - Ron and I kissed the first time we met. damn.

    also, that whole no one-night-stands, thing? yeah, whatever. there's a new Melanie in town.

By kazu on Friday, November 5, 2004 - 11:16 am:

    It does feel like someone died; doesn't it?

    Good luck Antigone. Keep us informed.

    (I love the threads that are being revived)

By wisper on Friday, November 5, 2004 - 07:19 pm:

    5 years later.
    This is fucked up and funny.
    Every time i think about the night that Gee is talking about me talking about up there, i always think back to her post from this thread.
    I swear.

    Blushing, memories. Oh gawd.

By wisper on Friday, November 5, 2004 - 07:25 pm:

    and just look at little patrick....up there ..... with all the dots.......


By Nate on Friday, November 5, 2004 - 07:31 pm:

    if i'm not wrong, "fuck you, you ass" will be 6 years old this march.

By wisper on Friday, November 5, 2004 - 08:12 pm:

    Let's bake a cake!!

By eri on Friday, November 5, 2004 - 10:53 pm:

    I was tempted to use "Fuck you, you ass" earlier, but I figured that it is more reserved for those of you with more seniority since it is a roundabout form of acceptance.

By Nate on Friday, November 5, 2004 - 11:04 pm:

By lapis on Friday, November 5, 2004 - 11:21 pm:



By lapis on Friday, November 5, 2004 - 11:28 pm:

    This thread makes me think of a chocolate cake with six candles and chocolate frosting with "Fuck you, you ass" written in cursive on it. Held by the cook, the baker, the chef or whatever; one of those fabulous women of the type whom everyone seems to know (y'know, enthusiastic and fun but almost always perfectly dressed), wearing a 50sish fullskirted dress, cute apron, fabulous shoes and no underwear happy homemaker. Then there's the cakee...

    Word fart!

By Platypus on Saturday, November 6, 2004 - 12:02 am:

    I know what I'm doing in March.

    Maybe I'll even make an ICE CREAM CAKE, seeing as how I make ice cream for a living. I totally want to see the decorator putting a cake that says "fuck you, you ass" in the cake display case.

By eri on Saturday, November 6, 2004 - 12:33 am:

    I was just thinking of making a "Fuck you, you ass" cake for the holidays.....it fits with me, see cuz I am DEATHLY allergic to eggs in ANY form, and even went into anaphalactic (sp?) shock at my best friends wedding reception. So I can't eat the damned cake if I make it so the title works.....whadya guys think? I'll take pics and post them on the site if you want. It'll give Spunky a break from his low cholesterol diet.

    BTW, my near death situation at the wedding reception was a sign. She got married on July 3rd this year......she left him two weeks ago for being a shit and hurting her kids. HAH.....I was RIGHT!!!!!!!

By dave. on Saturday, November 6, 2004 - 12:45 am:

    so much for sanctity of marriage and family values.
    sheesh. bet they're republicans, too.

By Platypus on Saturday, November 6, 2004 - 01:08 am:

    Hey Eri, have you considered cooking vegan? There are some pretty damn good vegan cake recipes out there. Because cake is too wonderful a thing to miss.

    I'm reading the police logs in the Eye, and stumbled across this:
    11:34 a.m. A man was reported chipping at stucco while black behind a cheesesteak sandwich dispensary. Turns out that was his job, since the stucco was being replaced.

By lapis on Saturday, November 6, 2004 - 10:16 am:

    vegan cakes are yummy.

    somewhere i've got a recipe for a wonderful vegan chocolate cake... if it's undercooked, it tastes like pudding (!).

    it's in the basement, in a copy of doris....

    also you could substitute 1/2 banana for each egg... it makes chocolate taste extremely decadent.

By Nate on Saturday, November 6, 2004 - 11:51 am:

    where the hell are you platy? geographically? and who are you making ice cream for?

By eri on Saturday, November 6, 2004 - 12:43 pm:

    I will admit I do need vegan recipies. I don't have any. It stinks sometimes. I need some good vegetarian recipies too. Lost mine.

By agatha on Saturday, November 6, 2004 - 02:35 pm:

    Eri, try "the internets."

By Platypus on Saturday, November 6, 2004 - 06:12 pm:

    For Eri. Eri, you can also email me. I don't like the banana thing, fyi. I prefer the world war two egg replacement recipe--vinegar and baking soda. But that's just me.

    Nateypoo, I am anywhere you want me to be.

    But seriously. Right now I'm in Fort Bragg (and not the Carolina one, either). I don't know how long that's going to last since I'm getting wanderlust again, but probably another year or so. Not sure yet. Property up here is so damn expensive.

    I am making ice cream for a local company called Cowlicks. I may have posted somewhere about my flamboyant middle of the shift quitting from the bookstore a few months ago. So now, I am a vegan who makes ice cream. Stranger things have happened. I would direct you to a website, but we don't have one. Allegedly that's one of the other things I'm doing. Maybe? Who knows.

    Anyhoo. And Eri, seriously, email me.

By Antigone on Saturday, November 6, 2004 - 06:43 pm:

    OK, full report. The evening started with me coming over to help fix her computer problems. Yes, I actually fixed some computer problems. :) I was able to fix just about all of them. And a significant part of working on the computer involved her crouching under her computer desk about an inch away from me, wearing tight jeans. A great way to start the evening, imho.

    Then we went to my favorite veggie restaurant which is right down the street from her place. We did lots of catching up conversation. She's quite a talker, but not in a bad way. She talks a mile a minute, has a quick wit, but also asks probing questions and follow up questions when I answer. I found myself talking almost as much as her. :)

    Then we went to an astronomy geekfest at a local community college. We met folks with telescopes and used them to check out various celestial stuff. Turns out she owns a telescope! We're going to figure out how to use it and take it to the next astronomy geekfest.

    We decided on the spur of the moment to go to the movie "Hero" because she hadn't seen it yet. Turns out she's a John Woo fan and she's going to educate me on early Chow Yun-Fat movies.

    So, we got back to her place and talked some more. Her pets (a dog and two cats) were rather agitated the whole time, but in a good way. (Rather hyper affectionate.) I think they picked up on something. Anyway, as I was about to leave we kissed goodnight.

    I just got home an hour ago.

    And no, it's not too much too soon.

    And yes, she rocks. She's damn fine and a geek chick. She's working on her masters in geosciences.

    And yes, we're going out again sunday night.

    And yes, :D


    And that's my report...

By lapis on Saturday, November 6, 2004 - 08:24 pm:


    yay for antigone!

    even if the world sucks, things in sorabjiland seem to be going reasonably well.

    i can understand how you don't like the banana thing, platy. it's just the easiest for me to remember. and peanutbutter and banana cookies are damn good. it's nice when the substitute ingredients turn it into something better.

    i cracked open my copy of "the garden of vegan" and they have an entire list of different egg replacers.

    powdered egg replacer
    1/2 mashed banana (sweet baked items)
    1/4 cup applesauce (sweet baked items, may need to add 1/2 tsp baking powder for rising)
    1/4 cup mashed silken tofu (also add baking powder for this one)
    1 tbsp soy flour or cornstach plus 2 tbsp water
    3 tbsp flax seeds plus 1/6 cup water (blended!)

    so, erm, i think i have a boyfriend again. maybe. i don't know. we just drink coffee, ride bikes, talk, eat soup, drink beer and kiss together. he volunteers a lot and plays the piano beautifully.

    we drank red wine in the park and kissed under the light of the lunar eclipse. eeee!

    gonna go get coffee with him in a few minutes.

By TBone on Sunday, November 7, 2004 - 12:48 am:

    Sounds like it's a good time for Sorabji Love.

    I'm snuggling with my cutie by the fire at Chico Hot Springs. I'm closing my laptop now. (it's our anneversary. Six years!)

By lapis on Sunday, November 7, 2004 - 01:38 am:



    (just got home, only a few hours later but....

    ...i'm feeling weak-kneed)

By Platypus on Sunday, November 7, 2004 - 04:07 am:

    I think I'm going to pull a Kim Jong Il over here.

    You all are too damn cute.

By RC on Sunday, November 7, 2004 - 07:04 pm:

    Hey Dinner Lady -- long time no see!

    My rule is Never Have Sex With Someone You Haven't Known Long Enough To Have Slow-Danced With At Least Once. And I don't go to clubs anymore, so the slow dancing thing never just 'happens' out of the blue.

    But if you've been dating him for 6 weeks & your ardor has suddenly cooled, that means something. If you don't have the genuine hots for him, why screw him at all?

    I say Keep It Platonic for now & see what happens. You don't owe him sex. Jennifer Anniston dated Brad Pitt for 9 MONTHS before she gave him any & she's been Mrs. Pitt now for, what?, 3 years. I think the fact that someone as hot as Brad was willing to wait that long -- & that Anniston managed to keep her panties on for that long while dating such a hunk -- speaks volumes about how serious each of them was about their relationship. And I'm sure you're more of a catch than Anniston is.

    So let him wait. When the time is right for knocking boots, you'll know.

    - RC

By RC on Sunday, November 7, 2004 - 07:22 pm:

    ACK! Shoulda read the entire thread before I posted my answer, which is now moot. DL already did the deed. Oh well.

    - RC

By kazu on Sunday, November 7, 2004 - 07:26 pm:

    Timeless advice is still timeless advice.

    Sem is trying to stick his fingers in my ears


By semillama on Sunday, November 7, 2004 - 07:28 pm:


By lapis on Sunday, November 7, 2004 - 08:24 pm:

    yes, cute.

    what's even cuter?

    wearing my kitty ears while kissing.

By wisper on Sunday, November 7, 2004 - 09:18 pm:

    "Jennifer Anniston dated Brad Pitt for 9 MONTHS before she gave him any"

    how on earth do you possibly know this??

By RC on Sunday, November 7, 2004 - 09:53 pm:

    I read it in a magazine. I think it was from her Good Housekeeping interview a couple of years ago.

    Sem -- Don't let Kaz tell people you're part Yeti! Tickle her mercilessly for that!

    - RC

By kazu on Sunday, November 7, 2004 - 10:02 pm:

    He tells everyone. Everyone. He told my mom
    after he showed her the picture of him from
    college sitting on the potty flipping everyone

    STOP IT!!!!!!!!! STOP!!!!!!!! I DON'T CARE IF RC

By Nate on Sunday, November 7, 2004 - 10:55 pm:

    i love that picture.

By kazu on Sunday, November 7, 2004 - 11:12 pm:

    so does me mum

By RC on Sunday, November 7, 2004 - 11:13 pm:

    Post a link to that picture -- I never saw it.

    - RC

By kazu on Sunday, November 7, 2004 - 11:34 pm:

By Nate on Monday, November 8, 2004 - 12:20 am:

    shit. poking around reminded me of my crush on ms. melissa brown.

By semillama on Monday, November 8, 2004 - 12:31 am:

    for real?

By Nate on Monday, November 8, 2004 - 02:30 am:

    uh. well, kind of. those pictures, anyway.

By kazu on Monday, November 8, 2004 - 08:12 am:

    that's cute.

By Gee on Monday, November 8, 2004 - 10:43 am:

    good for you, Antigone!

By kazu on Monday, November 8, 2004 - 01:02 pm:

    Did you have fun last night, tig?

By Antigone on Monday, November 8, 2004 - 01:32 pm:

    Yep. :)

    Won't get to see her 'till thursday, though. :(

    And I can't stop using emoticons. :O

By kazu on Monday, November 8, 2004 - 01:38 pm:


    "Won't get to see her 'till thursday, though. :( "

    I know how that is. Sem left this morning and I
    won't get to see him until Thanksgiving. I am not
    being snide; we're used to it, and besides
    you're in that early stage where everything is so

By Antigone on Monday, November 8, 2004 - 01:45 pm:

    Hey, be snide, Clyde.

    Let the derision flow, Flo.

    I got that young infatuation glow, yo!

    I got time on my side...

By RC on Monday, November 8, 2004 - 10:26 pm:

    Alright Kaz -- now where is a proportionately hysterical photo of YOU?

    (He is quite adorable, but I do hope you've taken him to the barber shop since than photo!)

    - RC

By kazu on Monday, November 8, 2004 - 10:37 pm:



    (cut-n-paste.and make sure you close off the space
    between the ? and userid, i tried to do the linky and
    it didn't work

    This is a photo I posted a while back.

    He cleans up good! I don't know if there is a
    hysterical photo of me available though.

By dave. on Monday, November 8, 2004 - 11:44 pm:

    tinyurl for fuck's sake!

By kazu on Tuesday, November 9, 2004 - 12:24 am:


By dave. on Tuesday, November 9, 2004 - 12:42 am:


By Nate on Tuesday, November 9, 2004 - 12:53 am:

    i want to get high with dr. dre and eminem and play around with protools.

By RC on Tuesday, November 9, 2004 - 01:25 am:

    It's working now: http://tinyurl.com/624qk

    Izzat you in the red dress, Kaz? Sha-zam!

    And izzat OUR SEM IN A SUIT?!!

    Day-um -- you guys are totally Red Carpet Ready! Move to Hollywood immediately!

    - RC

By kazu on Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 11:08 pm:

    yeah. that was for my brother's wedding
    a few weeks back.

    RC, you ever read any Ann Petry, epecially
    "The Street"?

By Antigone on Tuesday, October 9, 2007 - 01:48 am:

    Just want to make a note on this thread.

    Marci's in the bedroom, nursing our daughter Ada.

    With just a couple of posts it traces the course of our relationship, but it's far from the whole story.

    In the years between the 1999 and 2004 posts I thought about Marci a lot, but for some reason I hesitated to get in contact with her. In 2001, after I came back to Dallas after living in Alabama for six months, she called me and left a message, asking if I could help her with some computer stuff. I never called her back. For two or three years after that she lived a few blocks away from me and I never once visited or called. I thought of her a lot, but lacked the confidence to make contact.

    Thank the stars for lucky coincidences and tight jeans. Dreams really do come true. Cheesy? Ya. Bring on da cheese.

    Life is good.

By Dr Pepper on Tuesday, October 9, 2007 - 03:50 am:

    Antigone, how long you and marci been together before you got married, and how long is your marriage to her?

By Antigone on Tuesday, October 9, 2007 - 12:49 pm:

    We've been together pretty much since the November 5, 2004 post above. We were married on October 14th, 2006. (Proposed new year's eve, 2005)


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