Sexism in prices Weeds: Sexism in prices

By Cat on Friday, August 18, 2000 - 06:21 pm:

    A woman here recently sued a hairdresser for charging her $40, whereas the same haircut cost a man 20 bucks. Her fight for equal snipping rights has raised the whole subject of price disparity.

    And it's pretty widespread. Clothing, shoes and fragrances all reek of price sexism here.

    I have to write a crappy column on this, so I'd appreciate any price examples, witty worth-stealing comments, or anarchist observations. Pretty please.

By patrick on Friday, August 18, 2000 - 06:41 pm:


    will you send those "party" polaroids over if we help?

By NZA on Friday, August 18, 2000 - 06:54 pm:

    Most hairdresser here charge more for women than for men. They justify it on the basis that most men just want a simple cut, often with clippers, so it takes less time to do.

    My hairdresser is pretty reasonable, considering she has a full service salon and plys customers with tea, coffee, biscuits etc while you're waiting. She does charge less for a buzz cut than for the full service wash, cut and style, but I think thats ok. I usually pay abt $30 for the full service, which takes 1/2 - 3/4 hour. She does fringe trims for free though.

    My husband goes to a fancy barber. They overcharge in my opinion. He only has a buzz cut, but they still charge about $15, even though it only take about 10 minutes tops. Most places here would only charge about $10 for that.

    I think that prices should be set based on the type of cut, how long it takes, whether they wash your hair and massage your scalp, and style it when they're done cutting. I'm betting most men don't have that sort of pampering when they get a haircut, so its fair enough to charge less.

    (all prices quoted are in NZ$, and include GST)

    I get sick of the lack of size range for women's clothes. Any ordinary menswear store stocks clothes from Sm - xxxxl, but the equivalent womenswear store only stocks from 8-16 (Sm, Med, Lrg). Large women have to go to specialist "fat" stores to get larger clothes, but fat men can go to the local mall and have the choice of two-three stores stocking their size in all styles. That sucks.

    Also i hate that the Australian stores like Katies, Sussan etc have different sizing than the Kiwi stores. It should be standardised. The aussie sizes are generally one size larger than the kiwi ones. (Or is it just that Aussies are fatter than Kiwis?)

By Cat on Friday, August 18, 2000 - 09:42 pm:

    No probs Patrick...gimme plagiarable material and the pics are on their way.

    (of course being a journalist, I never let the facts get in the way of a good plagiarable a word, incidentally?)

By Butch on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 10:15 pm:

    how did the crappy column go, cat?

By cyst on Monday, January 22, 2001 - 06:52 pm:

    personal sexism:

    I use men's single, locking bathrooms when there's a line for the women's. I don't think anyone should have a problem with this.

    however, it would disturb me a little to see a man come out of a women's bathroom.

By Nate on Monday, January 22, 2001 - 08:38 pm:

    damnit cyst, where else are we supposed to whack off in public?

    i think that people should be able to charge whatever price the market will bear. if people will pay $60 for a g-string, charge $60.

    if not, you can get a Kathy Ireland g-string at the wallmart for $5.

    vote with your wallet. that's what capitalism is all about. if you don't like the prices, don't shop at the store.

By R.C. on Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 05:51 am:

    The dry cleaners are THE WORST!

    I have a ton of cotton shirts (yes, shirts -- they're only blouses if they have a breastpocket &/or don't unbutton all the way down) that I never get around to ironing. And long cotton dresses/but it's too cold (AGAIN!) for dresses now. So I decided to stop by the cleaners down the street from my house & see what it wd cost me to have my shirts ironed. Not laundered/just pressed.

    They had a sign in the window advertising "Men's Shirts - Press Only - $1.00 each"

    So I plopped my dozen or so cotton shirts down on the counter & said I wanted them pressed & asked how much.

    The girl behind the counter told me it wd be $2.50 to $3.00 EACH to have my shirts pressed.

    I asked her why I cdn't get the $1.00 advertised price they. She said that was "only for men's shirts."

    I asked her what was the difference?

    She said "I don't pick the prices -- I just write up the tickets."

    (This was abt 3 wks. ago. The sign for the $1.00 male-only special has since come down.)

    This cleaners also had no sign up anywhere on the premesis with their name on it. And no business cards w/their name on them. And they've been there at least a year.

    Needless to say/my clothes are still not ironed...

    The haircut thing is pretty much a question of taste. Any woman who wants a buzz cut or a quick shape-up on a short 'do (like Jada Pinkett Smith's) can walk into any barber shop & get a haircut for $10-$15. But most women want their hair 'styled' which is a lot more involved.

    It's certainly not worth suing over. I hope that chick's case gets thrown out of court. She shd save her legal fees for a gender-bias car price ripoff lawsuit!

By cyst on Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 03:15 pm:

    personal racism:

    I am under the impression that the only people who smoke pot in office-core downtown public areas during business and weekday evening hours are black people. whenever I smell pot during or after work on the street (and this is increasingly common, even in january), it's always around black people.

    I think it's admirable to flaunt one's disregard for stupid laws, but it's also disconcerting to me. like, why don't they go somewhere appropriate, like a cool old brick part of town with beautiful old taverns and stained glass and high ceilings, or down to the waterfront with its magnificent view of not only the bay but the mountains? why fifth and pike, in front of banana republic?

By Cat on Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 04:06 pm:

    You're a bunch of bloody buggers (except NZA..big kisses to you Darlin'). Where were all your comments months ago when I was doing the column?? This lack of cooperation will not be tolerated.

    You're all grounded.

By patrick on Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 04:20 pm:

    personal racism:

    its a sterotype I know, but I have a theory why it SEEMS so many latinos are overweight. the sheer number of vendors roaming the streets in the spring and summer....taco stands on every corner, churro guys pushing a cart through the neighborhood, the "roach coaches" (i.e. the catering trucks that move from corner to corner) serving up tacos, burgers, tamales and the sort at all hours of the night.

    this totally (good but..) unhealthy food practically follows them to their doors.

    I know its been a while since i have been back home, and Im sure one trip to rural GA or Alabama would reinstate my theory of why so many poor, rural white people are fat...

By NZA on Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 04:28 pm:

    any time Cat....

    So how did it go? Post us a copy.

By semillama on Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 04:47 pm:

    Come to Wisconsin for fat white people.

    This is Dairyland, after all. Dairy products and Beer.

    Personal racism:

    Motherfucking Honkies!

By R.C. on Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 11:45 pm:

    Patrick: Maybe the Latinos in Cali are fat/but many of the Latinos in NYC are hotties.

    La Lopez is from the boogie down Bronx. Cdn't ask for a better body than hers. And she certainly flaunts it enuf.

    Ditto for Rosario Dawes. And Rosie Perez.

    NY is full of fine, FIT, Latina sisters. And they all eat beans & rice too/so it ain't abt the food.

    Oh & Cyst: What exactly is yr problem? Is it that people are smoking pot where you have to look at them? Or that Black people are smoking pot in public?

    Wd it bother you as much if it were a bunch of Yuppie whites? Becuz you can go downtown & see that shit every day on Wall St. Or any NYC college neighborhood.

    The reason *you're* seeing them is prolly becuz they work in the same area you do. When someone is running down to the street for a quick jay on their lunch break/they don't usually have time to wander over to the waterfront just so they can enjoy the view while getting their buzz on/y'know?

    Or did that not occur to you?

By Max Serenate on Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 12:11 am:

    i'm in love with... someone. but i love Cyndi Lauper, not as a lover but as a goddess. i pray to her and she makes my pain go away. please send me stories, whatever. i want to get inside someone's mind... or inside mine. i am curious of everything so please send me something but dont try to make it interesting.

    i enjoy Emma by Jane Austin. i am a teenage white male from London, Ontario in Canada. Music is my life, I really love all people. I am here, all you have to do is reach out with your hand... i will meet you halfway.

By patrick on Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 12:32 pm:

    welllllll RC are speaking of celebrities....thats an entirely differnt realm. BUT I will say that people in general WALK more in NYC....we drive here. I always loose 5 lbs when I go to NYC.

By agatha on Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 07:45 pm:

    RC, she's not talking about the people that work downtown. She's talking about the down and out contingency in downtown Seattle. A lot of them smoke crack and shoot heroin right on the street, near the bus stops and on the corners. It is really blatant. Once I was walking downtown with Cleo and we walked by this guy who was sitting right on the sidewalk with a needle jammed in his arm. Cleo was amazed. I had to attempt to explain the concept of addiction to her, which was really hard.

By R.C. on Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 04:34 am:

    Whazzup w/THAT?

    Don't they have shooting galleries & crack houses in Seattle?

    However did you explain it all to Cleo?

By cyst on Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 02:33 pm:

    I think I do have racist feelings about downtown pot smoking. and, no, these are not office workers. these are people standing in groups on corners, or idling their cars on the side of the street.

    I think if it were bunches of stupid white hippies, I would think it was more like some cool civil disobedience thing and less like jesus, this lawlessness is frightening.

    and that's really fucked thinking.

By patrick on Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 04:11 pm:

    she admits it RC...its not necesarily supposed to make sense. i don't think any kind of racism does, no matter how subtle or unimporant it is to the rest of us.

By cyst on Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 04:41 pm:

    yeah, but does admitting one's own racism make it any better?

    like, yeah, I acknowledge that I'm racist, but I don't have any plans to do anything about it.

By patrick on Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 05:49 pm:

    of course it doesnt make it any better. but you know, diagnosing you have disease as opposed to not finding out is a start.... and maybe an end in your case. but the fact you have voiced it....perhaps next time you see anyone other than white shooting or toking up on the corner, you will think back to the very words here..and BEGIN an internal dialog about this illogical notion of yours.

    jesus i have thought way too much on this already.

By agatha on Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 09:29 pm:

    yeah, there are places to go and get high in seattle, but these folks have kind of earned some sort of strange seniority on those particular corners. it's a social place for them, too, a place where they can hook up with each other and go get high elsewhere, or else just pop into a nearby alley. they also aren't all black, by any means. i am intimidated by the street corner folk because they seem like they might do just about anything, at any moment. they're always so fucked up that you never know what's going to happen with them. it's really sad.

    when i explained it to cleo, i tried to frame it in terms of physiology, i guess. i basically said that sometimes people drink or smoke or take drugs, and their bodies come to rely on the product to feel okay. i told her that when i didn't drink coffee in the morning, my body would feel cranky because i was craving the coffee, and it felt like my body needed it to function. i also referred to dave and how often he quits smoking, but always ends up smoking again after a few months. i'm not sure how effective my explanation was, but she seemed to buy it.

    cleo recently made a few jokes about "being gay." although i'm sure that is normal conversation for a six year old, it disturbed me. i went into a diatribe where i listed a whole bunch of gay people she knew. i'm not sure if that was the right way to address that issue, by making a big deal out of it. i always wonder if i'm saying the absolute wrong thing to her, and providing fodder for years of therapy later on in her life. scary.

By J on Friday, January 26, 2001 - 12:05 am:

    Agatha,honesty is always the way to go,you remind me of a junior Janny,keep doing the right thing,and thank God Dave doesn't fuck with you.My kids love me.

By R.C. on Friday, January 26, 2001 - 04:53 am:

    Well Patrick, at least she's on record. So I know.

By R.C. on Friday, January 26, 2001 - 04:58 am:

    Agatha: Was Cleo making jokes abt being gay herself/or jokes abt being gay in general??

    Geez! I don't even think I knew what gay was til I was 9 or 10. Much less any gay jokes.

    But don't fret over it. She is only 6.

By cyst on Friday, January 26, 2001 - 12:59 pm:

    I don't think I am especially racist, though. I think most people use race as one of their bases for assumption about others. I also think a lot of people don't realize they are doing this, however.

    and, you know, I'm sort of rethinking this. I said a group of black people standing on a downtown street corner smoking pot disturbs me in a way that a group of white people wouldn't.

    however, I think I would be equally undisturbed at that same pot-smoking corner by a group of black people with dreadlocks listening to peter tosh and smoking pot as I would by a group of white people with dreadlocks listening to peter tosh. know what I mean?

    and I think people who are concerned about racism should probably worry more about the republican types who refuse to acknowledge it in themselves and others. the ones who don't care about racist drug laws and sentencing and racial bias by traffic cops and inner-city school funding.

    I don't think I'm necessarily a worse person than some other white woman who may also feel more threatened by black men than white men but would never, ever say so.

    or maybe I am. maybe such things shouldn't be said.

By heather on Friday, January 26, 2001 - 02:02 pm:

    my friend and i were at a bar/restaurant place. this guy came up to us and the first thing he said was, "do you like my haircut?"

    "i don't know. we didn't see it before." and we looked at each other like, ok, he can go away now.

    blah blah he was chatty n such.

    then all of a sudden he said, "do you like black people?"

    we both just stood and looked at him thinking, what did he just say?

    i said, "huh?" and he asked again.

    so i said, "what a stupid question, what's your point?"

    so he goes on..."are you prejudice? do you have black friends? do you hang out with them?...."

    he kept asking and never really said why. we had already answered that of course we had black friends....

    "are you saying you're not prejudiced?"

    i said, "no, i'm prejudiced. i'm prejudiced against stupid people."

    my friend started laughing.

    he said, "are you insinuating something?"

    and she said, "no, she really is prejudiced against stupid people." and we left.

    since i don't feel like typing all the in-between stuff i probably end up looking like a jerk. but he was being a huge jerk and in real life the ending was really funny.

By sarah on Friday, January 26, 2001 - 04:39 pm:

    why do i feel like i was there?

    [it was funny!]

By R.C. on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 04:04 am:

    Cyst, when you say --

    <<... people who are concerned about racism should probably worry more about the republican types who refuse to acknowledge it in themselves and others. the ones who don't care about racist drug laws and sentencing and racial bias by traffic cops and inner-city school funding.>>

    don't you realize those are the same 'people' who say --

    << like, yeah, I acknowledge that I'm racist, but I don't have any plans to do anything about it.>>

    Are you really that obtuse?

    Racism hurts. These fucked-up ideas people like you carry around in yr head don't just live there quietly/minding their own business. They seep out & inflict harm on real people in the real-time world. Racism is myopic & unfair & evil. Period. Whether it's on the federal bench/or in the human resources office of a Fortune 500 co./in the the heart of a beat cop partolling the streets/or the mind of a store dick monitoring the merch in Macy's.

    Don't pretend you don't get that.

    If you WANT to be a racist/well, at least you've fessed up. (BTW/what the hell did anybody Black ever do to hurt you? Prolly nothing. But if somebody Black wronged you personally/didn't it occur to you that maybe that person was just 1 fucked-up individual out of billions of people of all races on this planet?)

    Don't act like yr shit don't stink becuz of yr racism.


By 12 Furbys on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 04:17 am:

    I got two goldfish today. One is gold and black. The other one is gold and white. I named them "Nigger" and "Honky".

By 12 Furbys on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 04:19 am:

    It's kind of fun watching them endlessly circle each other in the same small bowl.

By heather on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 06:15 am:

    what about racism as it relates to fashion?

    really, i mean, there are perfectly nice people out there who dress like other 'not so nice' people.

    we always have some opinion of a person based on how they look, and many people don't seem to mind aligning themselves with other people who regularly commit crimes.

    of course it's superficial. but how do you know? how do you protect yourself from someone who may have an intent to hurt you if you don't size them up visually?

    [i have what is generally the ridiculous tendency to never consider anyone mean or dangerous, btw] and luckily i have never been hurt. but people are, everyday.

    i think [of course] that people should wear whatever the hell they want. but they should also consider the way in which people will view them. if they look like a certain type of person, they must WANT to look like that kind of person and should understand the judgements that will be placed on them.

    now i've re-read this and consider it stupid. with this logic i should buy a couple of expensive suits and start the victimizing, as of course no one will expect it. so i guess my point is that i'm confused.

    rc is right. the exterior is no judgement of a persons character.

By Tom on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 06:36 am:

    You sure? what about someone who hasn't shaved, or showered, or groomed at all, in ages? his clothes are ragged, torn. He smells like booze. He has bits of leaves and dirt on him.

    you can base a judgement on that: he's possibly (perhaps even probably) been sleeping off last nights spange in the park.

    Exterior appearance CAN be used to make judgements. Should one rely too heavily on them? probably not. but what else do you have to go on? The question is really where to draw the line. I expect the above guy to be seedy, incoherent, and not altogether trustworthy, because I've had too many dealings with people fit the 1st description, who also fit the second.
    Now I see a guy. he's of African descent. he's dressed in baggy pants. he has an afro. Beyond that, he's behaving (and looks) just like me. There's no logical reason for me to feel uncomfortable around him.

    This little allegory isn't great, but.. wait. that wasn't an allegory. point being. yeah. not beautiful, but I think it got the point across? maybe?

By heather on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 07:34 am:

    but you don't know if he's untrustworthy.

    certainly you wouldn't leave your two-year-old daughter with a ragged stranger while you went to the store or something...[but i'm sure you wouldn't leave her with any stranger. which goes off to another subject that perhaps in another time and place you would have. my grandmother raised a girl for two years, she hadn't known the mother at all. one day the mother showed up and just took her away.]

    but all you really know is that he looks like he slept outside and has been drinking. chances are that that is true. but whether he might be 'seedy' is another matter altogether.

    maybe he acts a certain way to people he doesn't know because he can't trust THEM. Maybe that's just how you act when you hardly ever receive respect as a person.

By heather on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 07:35 am:

    what is with me being so chatty anyway?

    proof of paper procrastination

By K-lo on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 09:54 am:

    i will voice some fashion racism...

    the fact that i can't find panties that can harness my beautiful black ass.

    like i enjoy looking like some late 60's modeled bond girl like any one else. but sometimes i want a bikini cut panty that doesn't pull low in the front and sell crack in the back.
    the whole french cut underwear freak me out too. what are those for? it sure as hell ain't for my ass!

    i want to go out and buy jeans. but no one ever thinks about a "big booty ho" like myself. so while the jeans fit everywhere else, i am curse with this like opening in the back just above (where fucking else?) my ass. and that is sexy on some levels, but i want variety. i want skin tight, and that includes my prosterior.

    as far as sexism in prices. ever since i shaved my head (for those of you who actually read what i write) i have been disappointed how much hair cuts cost. 11-15 dollars at a place like super cuts or whatever.
    i walk in and say "i need you to take some clippers and make my head as hairless as my behind." and they stare blankly at me and say "15 dollars" i say "i don't have 15 dollars worth of hair, let alone do i believe it will take 15 dollars of energy to shave my god damned head." they are like "that is the set price."
    so no matter who you are, you walk in there, they will charge that much? in a sense.
    now i go to a barbershop (where all they do is shave black heads all day) they charge me 12 dollars.
    i go to the beauty college and they charge me 6.99. i get a penny back in change every time.
    where my mother gets her hair done at the "salon" the lady charged my mom <cause i sure as hell wasn't going to pay this woman i hate her guts.> 22 dollars to shave my head. and even while doing so, she pretty damn near refused to do what i wanted. saying things like "i don't think it will look cute if i shave it all off. it looks short enough like this." to which i said "yeah maybe you don't understand, i am not going for cute, so take the guards off and give my some yule brinner action okay?"
    i didn't really say that, but it would have been way funny if i did.

    since having this hair cut, i have been shaved for free (we talked about my band the whole time and the woman thought it was silly to charge for what i was getting) but i have never paid over 10 dollars for services rendered.
    i will pay 15 dollars for someone's time (usually under an hour) when it is a prostitute, cause then that would be like a steal. how much do male prostitutes go for anyway?

By agatha on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 02:10 pm:

    kymical, buy yourself a pair of twenty dollar clippers and do it yourself. that's what dave does, although he has me do the touchups.

    i have trouble with harnessing my ass, as well. i have found that this one type of jockey underwear that goes up a little higher on the top and actually extends to fit around your ass does pretty well for me. they come in packages of three or four for like 13.00. my mom calls my butt "bullet ass."

    heather, i like it when you are chatty. it's almost like you are arguing with yourself.

By semillama on Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 12:36 am:

    Iwould like to intercede and ask folks to imagine if we had highly developed senses of smell, a la canines. Think of all the extra stereotypes we would have then!

    Personal prejudice for today:

    i went and saw "O Brother, Where Art Thou?" today (excellent movie , btw). This older woman cam and sat in the row in front of me. She had a bag filled to bursting with her stuff, and she smelled like she hadn't bathed in a while. My brain instantly processed this information that this woman had a rough life, probably was poor and on some sort of state assistance, needed a shower, and probably didn't really gat a kick out of life. I also wished that she would sit somewhere else so that I would'nt have to smell her.

    The thing about prejusdice and stereotypes is taht it's built-in, or rather the capacity to form stereotypes is an essential part of our brain functioning. A lot of what our brains do is make short cuts, rather than having to figure something out every single time. It's actually pretty handy. Thikn if you had to remember consciously and tell your self how to drive every time you got in the car!

    My point is, this isn't an excuse for racism. Nor is this part of our brains to blame for racism. The part ot blame is our direct consciousness, which we can train to recognize these shortcuts and change them. It is very doable to change your perceptions of people that you had negative feelings about.

By cyst on Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 09:48 pm:

    << like, yeah, I acknowledge that I'm racist, but I don't have any plans to do anything about it.>>

    if I could think of something to do to make myself less racist, I would. well, maybe I'm not really racist. like, I am not threatened by black men wearing suits. and I totally enjoyed talking to this reggae bassist for a long time at a party last night. I just have no explanation for why I would find it scarier that there are black people smoking pot downtown than if there were slacker white hippie college kids doing the exact same thing. except that I must be racist on some level.

    my thinking on this matter is fucked up. I don't think I should be extra disconcerted by seeing black people break the law than I would be by white people doing the same thing. what should I do about it?

    "(BTW/what the hell did anybody Black ever do to hurt you? Prolly nothing."


    I've always lived in areas where blacks are a small minority, so statistically it makes sense that I'd have no harm done to me by them. and I don't think I have. well, I can't think of many bad things that have happened to me ever. I got ripped off by a white kid in ukraine once. when I was a teenager some white guy stole a parking spot I was backing into. in mexico once a mexican bum grabbed my arm as I was trying to cross the street.

    "Racism is evil. Period. Whether it's on the federal bench/or in the human resources office of a Fortune 500 co./in the the heart of a beat cop partolling the streets/or the mind of a store dick monitoring the merch in Macy's.

    Don't pretend you don't get that."

    I totally agree.

    "If you WANT to be a racist"...

    I don't want to be a racist. I feel like if a basically good, educated, well-intentioned, open-minded, traveled, thoughtful, reasonable, multiracial, semi-normal person such as myself is racist, then, well, we're all kind of fucked.

    I sometimes have these other racist thoughts, too, like I often assume asian men are going to be really geeky and dull. (this, when my own father is half-asian, and I'm a quarter asian.) and I'm often amazed then annoyed by how loud groups of black teenage women are on the street and on the bus.

    I don't want to be racist, but do I have to pretend not to notice a correlation of skin color, sex, age, and decibels? no one else, not black men, not hispanic women, not white frat boys, is as loud as groups of young, black women?

    also, is it racist of me to notice an annoying correlation of white, female, old ladies and overuse of perfume? I mean, yuck.

By J on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 12:27 pm:

    I'm afraid of bikers,I don't let them know I am,I try not to put off that I'm scared of the bikers vibe,but I am.Not the yuppie "I paid this much for my hog"biker.The ones that wear colors and make meth,they always remind me of pirates.I know there are probably some nice ones,but I still advoid them.

By semillama on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 01:08 pm:

    If the observations are valid, then it's not racism. It is though if you say that the genetics (skin color) are behind it and not the culture.

    I've tended to notice that people of whatever ethnic makeup act according to the cultural rules from where they were raised.

By crimson on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 01:32 pm:

    about the biker thing...i married a biker (my 1st marriage). a lot of his relatives were also bikers. they were very nice people, but a bit on the scary side. they looked really rough. when we'd all go out shopping together, we'd laugh about how mothers would literally run up in a complete panic & pull their children away from us. stores literally closed in the middle of the day because they saw us pulling up in the parking lot. people were very afraid of us & after a while, it just seemed kind of sad.

    one day, we all helped a woman whose car had caught fire. one of these toothless, dirty, muscle-bound bikers looked at the woman--who had initially been in a screaming terror, thinking we were going to rob her--& told her to be damn sure to tell people that it was bikers who helped save her life.

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