had a complete stranger completely alter your day for the better?

sorabji.com: Have you ever...: had a complete stranger completely alter your day for the better?

By Waffles on Wednesday, October 6, 1999 - 06:08 pm:

    Ok, so I am sitting on a railing outside my office bldg on a busy/touristy section of Hollywood Blvd. I am reading the essays that preface this new book I got called "The Camera I" a collection of photographer self portraits. As I am sitting there reading, these two mid aged men, conservative looking black men walk by me, one stops and looks over my shoulder as if he is checking out what I am reading. I look up and he asks what exactly I am reading. I respond I am a photographer reading up on self portraiture and looking at examples from an exhibit from 94. He asks where my work is. I respond....uh well it's mostly at home...certainly not in here (pointing to the book). He pats me on the shoulder and says "some day, keep working at it, good luck." and continues walking talking to his buddy. Mystified, excited, touched......

    Total random stranger totally lifted my otherwise very depressing day.....I believe these things happen for a reason....my wife in partucular has had some strange but rather interesting cab rides like this, one I have witnessed. Sort of a angelic character walking the earth reminding the living not to forget about living.....

    Have things like this happened to you?

    Oh and also one of my random po dunk customers called from Augusta GA, asking if he could purhcase books using a Shell (gas) card.......that got this whole office stirred up into a frenzy...........from such a bleak and internally violent morning to a not so bad afternoon. i wanna go home and work on some pictures...i feel good, i have a lot say

By Rhiannon on Wednesday, October 6, 1999 - 06:28 pm:

    How nice for you to have that happen! Maybe you're right -- maybe it was an angel come to egg you on to continue with your artwork.

    I think I posted the one similar experience I have had...but in case not...during the summer, my father and I were taking a walk around our neighborhood, and I stopped to pick a wildflower. I carried it with me about half of the way and then dropped it by the side of the road. The next morning, we found a whole bunch of those wildflowers on our doorstep. I have no idea who put them there.

    You're right, it's like you've been touched by magic or something. Just thinking about those flowers makes me feel good.

    Now those "practice random acts of kindness" bumper stickers don't seem so annoying, do they? :)

By RHiannon on Wednesday, October 6, 1999 - 06:33 pm:

    BTW, I still have the flowers. I've pressed them in my dictionary, on the page whose header is the word "mystery."

By Waffles on Wednesday, October 6, 1999 - 06:38 pm:

    i'd like toi think this played a key role in the grand scheme of things, i like to think of it not so much in any religious terms or even a random act, but it was planned by some sort of higher power, some sort of "meant to be" . A native american at an art party a few weeks told my wife she was a very old soul, he could see it in her eyes, she does have some cherokee in her and a she is a descendent of a Cherokee princess, he looked at me said what the fuck? Get a hair cut you hippie, then he proceed to continue to pick up my wife...

By Wavydave on Wednesday, October 6, 1999 - 06:54 pm:

    I took a mechanic for a ride in my car to listen to the noise it was making that they were supposed to fix yesterday but somehow missed in the action of fixing a couple of other things that had nothing to do with the noise but needed attention anyway.

    After the ride, he had no good suggestions about what the noise actually was.

    I'm starting to dislike my 11-yr old car.

    Oh, and it's "Dumb drivers day" in Idaho Falls, so drive defensively.

By Semillama on Wednesday, October 6, 1999 - 08:38 pm:

    hee he, that's definately an old indian trick for getting laid.

    About the best total stranger thing I can relate to are the couple of times kids i had never sen before came up to me and said they really liked my band. I'm not sure I have ever been more suprised.

By Gee on Thursday, October 7, 1999 - 02:21 am:

    Waffle, there's no such thing as an indian princess. Native americans don't work that way. Did this guy trying to pick up your wife tell you that or did someone else?

By Waffles on Thursday, October 7, 1999 - 11:53 am:

    ummm, no my wife's family has it documented, they did have a system in the Cherokee nation, in which there was a chief of the tribe and the term princess refers to his daughter(s). This is well known fact in her family, not something this other guy said to her. Don't think princess as in Diana......the term princess is indeed a westernized term but native americans did indeed have a similar system......check again

By Pink on Thursday, October 7, 1999 - 12:02 pm:

    I know no strangers. Everyone is a subtle friend. To chit chat with anyone is the true meaning of getting along.

By Rhiannon on Thursday, October 7, 1999 - 12:31 pm:

    Hey, look, it's Mr. Sunshine!

    (Sorry about that, but that was a Homicide-quote moment.)

By Pink on Thursday, October 7, 1999 - 01:29 pm:

    Mr. Sunshine, my ass! Half of you have a phobia of relentless babbling towards people. I don't. Live a little. Speak out towards those who might seem non-connecting. They may have something to offer.

    Mr. Sunshine

By Waffles on Thursday, October 7, 1999 - 01:41 pm:

    mr sunshine= me? mmmmm perhaps i missed something........

    i've got sunshine in my ass

By Droop on Thursday, October 7, 1999 - 01:52 pm:

    "sunshine in my ass."

    dibs on that for a song title.

By Rhiannon on Thursday, October 7, 1999 - 02:15 pm:

    There is a Smiths song that says "the sun shines out of our behinds" or something like that. Waffles is more like Morrissey than he'd like to admit, it seems. ;)

    I'd be all for the relentless babbling, but I wouldn't want to annoy people any more than I already do.

By Waffles on Thursday, October 7, 1999 - 02:30 pm:

    but i don't "wear black onthe outside cause black is how i feel on the inside"

    last i checked you don't annoy anyone rhi, your are a complete sweetheart around here....it's seems hard to annoy here becasue you have complete freedom to ignore anyone and move on,

By Droopy on Thursday, October 7, 1999 - 02:33 pm:

    it's ok, the tune i've got for it in my head is definitely anti-smiths. i've been listening to the blues almost non-stop for the past couple of weeks, and i've got a dave mackenzie tune called "rats in my bedroom" running through my mind.

By Rhiannon on Thursday, October 7, 1999 - 02:51 pm:

    *blows many kisses to Waffles* What a sweet thing for you to say! I only wish my family agreed with you. My mother recently sent me an email saying she dreads me coming home this weekend because the only time the fights break out is when I'm there. That sure makes me feel good, boy, I tell ya...

    "Sunshine in my Ass"...that makes me think of "Ain't No Sunshine," the old Michael Jackson version. Is this close to what you had in mind, Droopy?

By Droop on Thursday, October 7, 1999 - 03:13 pm:

    michael jackson? that's an old bill withers tune. and no, all i have in my head is sort of a jump blues.

    my favorite bill withers tune is "use me."

By Jinafishes on Thursday, October 7, 1999 - 05:49 pm:

    I had a stranger not really make my day just a couple days ago. I was in the parking lot at college and pulled in, got my stuff, and got out, still getting a few things, and had parked by a person who had just parked as well. He started talking to me. Talking about his parking ticket (I got one too) talking about it's lameness. Told him to get a sticker. Told me his name. Hi, I'm ______. For some reason if freaked me out and annoyed me. He had something weird about him. Like if you screamed, he'd hold you down till you were quiet. It's just the time of day where I'm trying to haul ass upstairs in deep thought with myself. He was a weird character. Not that bright, pulled out a knife and started rambling about how he liked knives but he wasn't a bastard. I didn't get it, I hadn't been paying attention, he just walked with me, and it weirded me out. Till this other girl came along that he knew and he said hi, she came and walked with us, and I speeded it up the stairs. I think I sensed that she was annoyed with him too, but I didn't care to check. Cardiac Lane. It takes deep thought to get up those stairs. But I didn't understand it, this just doesn't happen around here, I never thought how much it would suck to not have that personal silence in the morning.

By Gee and Her Mom on Saturday, October 9, 1999 - 01:49 am:

    Okay. I checked again. Why? Because (in spite of what the others say, I'm not just trying to "prove who's right") this is a subject I care about. It's a part of my past I was denied for a long time, and lately my interest has been growing. If I see someone say somthing that contradicts what I've been taught, I feel the need to say something. Maybe someone will be interested enough to read the following and learn a thing or two. Or, maybe (maaaaaybe) someone can correct me. I'm open to that too.

    This is from my mother, who's Much Much better with diplomacy, facts, and all things native than I am. She's an expert in native culture (I'm so proud of her - she just got her status card), as she's been studying it for manymanymany (god, many) years and relearning the culture SHE was denied for too long, as well. She's almost finished her PhD (mainly working in genocide and native culture), and did I mention I'm very proud of her?

    Okay. This has turned into a "look how great my mommy is!" rant. Basically I showed her what Waffle wrote and asked her to reply. Just read what she has to say (everyone) and all questions/comments/dirty words will be forwarded to her. I'm sure she'll reply. geeze. Her mouth is waywayway dirtier than any of yours ever were.



    There is no such thing as an Injun princess. There are a lot of people who claim to be descendants of Cherokee pricesses but (1) most of the records for the Cherokee who lived in the eastern USA were destroyed by fire so anybody can claim anything; (2) the Cherokee were "relocated" (like most of the Jewish people in Europe during Nazi times) in a process called "The Trail of Tears" - again more confusion and lost records. Also, the Bureau of Indian Affairs kept really bad records. Injuns didn't need to since they already knew who they were through kinship systems and clan systems.

    There was no royalty at all among any North American Aboriginal groups; in fact, for some tribes, the chief had to eat and drink last so that the others would survive.

    If this person doesn't believe me, I can give you a quote from a genuine, academic, published Injun (Vine DeLoria, Jr) who says there is no such thing as Injun royalty never mind an Injun princess. It's a lie used by wannabes or people who are mistaken (note that I did not say This person was a liar or a wannabe).

    I won't bother speechifying about Injun cultures but there was no hierarchy (ranking) and even being chief meant very little since Injun societies were collectives (run by the people).


By friendly on Saturday, October 9, 1999 - 03:41 am:

    jina, i think we live nearby. lemme know if you want me to scare the holy shit out of this guy. this kind of stuff unnerves me. i have a daughter and the thought that some bastard will eventually flip her this kind of headtrip bullshit drives me insane. i can hardly type this, i'm so worked up. maybe you shouldn't let me know. the last thing i or my family needs is for me to be in prison for murder or attempted murder or aggravated assault. fuck, i hate hearing about shit like that! dammit, i wish i'd never read that.

By Semillama on Saturday, October 9, 1999 - 02:16 pm:

    I'll have to disagree with your mom on hierarchies, gee, since the archaeological evidence seems to indicate a form of hierarchy existing during the middle woodland period (ca. 2300-1600BP), when elaborate burials of certain individuals in massive mounds with lots of grave goods was practiced, indicating a special status. Similar hierarchal societies existed in the eastern woodlands and the south right up to the Contact period, when introduced disease wiped out most of this type of culture. The northern woodland, Northwest coast and Plains peoples lived in the egalitarian manner your mom described, gee, but there was a definite hierarchy in the east and southeast, not to mention the Central American and South American empires.

By R.C. on Saturday, October 9, 1999 - 03:56 pm:

    You go, Sem! Work that Masters degree!

    But was/is there a special term reserved for these
    upper-level Indians? The chief's daughter wasn't referred to as a 'princess'/nor his wife as 'queen'/but did they carry some other title to denote their special status?

By Semillama on Saturday, October 9, 1999 - 04:26 pm:

    that I don't know. My more detiled references are back at my mom's house yet.

    Princess and chief of course wee terms carried over form European Systems of government, especuially those thought to be appliceable to the systems encountered in the new world.

    If anyone knows, I would be interested in the entymology of the words "chief" and "tribe".

By heather on Saturday, October 9, 1999 - 04:31 pm:

    there was a program called 'indian princesses' at our ymca when i was young.

    meetings and such where dads were supposed to hang out with their daughters.

    i remember making snakes out of bottle caps, and the day my parents forced me to finish the yogurt i was eating before we could go. i was totally full, my stomach hurt, running around the house trying to make room for the damn yogurt. and i didn't even want to go.

By Droop on Saturday, October 9, 1999 - 05:14 pm:

    this is what i got when i typed "cherokee princess" into a word search. there's lots of info at the homepage.

    i was never a cherokee, but i played one in my back yard.

    killed heap many palefaces.

By Margret on Saturday, October 9, 1999 - 08:04 pm:

    my dad used to call my mom "thrice cherokee virgin." i didn't care for the title, because of the sexuality apect mingling with my notions of my parents (ick!). as I have posted elsewhere, I had my spirit vision in the Raton Pass and have named myself "Snow Plows Turning" as a result. i am interested in Gee's mom. Gee's mom, are you going to go to coloraddy? there are some nice arapahoe folks up thataway.

By Gee on Sunday, October 10, 1999 - 03:08 am:

    okee. I showed my mom what Sem typed, and this is what she had to say in reply. I mentioned that Sem was an archaeologist, because I think that's neat.


    This person specifically mentioned the Cherokee which is an Indigenous North American group or tribe or nation (depending on how p.c. you want to be). No Injun would ever say that there were hierarchies among North American Injuns. As for the elaborate burial sites, it is quite possible that the person buried there was "honored" because of his/her accomplishments (killing the most moose, buffalo or deer, etc. or doing something that benefited the entire tribe) rather than because of his/her "rank" at birth. If he is an archaeologist he might be familiar with the term "ascribed" and "achieved" - most Injuns would say these sites were achieved (by doing something) rather than ascribed (by just being born into a particular position). It is also possible that the sites in question contained all this stuff because the person died in a dishonorable way and all his/her stuff was buried with him/her to eliminate not only any memories of the person but to distance oneself from the possibility of having the dead person's spirit come back from the spirit world and "hurt" them. I can't imagine an archaeologist believing that last part but it is part of the Injun belief system.

    Also, some tribes (like the Dine'h which is what we are) had some unusual ideas about death and bural practices. They never touched a dead person, burned the dead person's home and possessions and cremated their remains. As far as the eastern woodlands go, I know enough Injuns from there to know that even the most arrongant ones acknowledge that there was no real hierarchy among them. Your friend might want to look into Wendat or Huron societies or even Mohawk or Oneida (all of them part of the east) to see that this was the case. Like I told you, hereditary chiefs had no real power and could do nothing without the consent of the people or the council. In some cases, a chief was elected and if didn't do his/her job - out he went.

    As for Central and South America, I know very little about that other than that the Aztecs, Incas and Mayans might have been structured somewhat differently. However, since Injuns do no believe in borders (as in the border between the USA and Canada) there might have been some overlap among the "northern" Central American Aboriginals and the "southern" ones. In many ways, it is almost futile to talk about them since the Spanish wiped most of them out anyways (genocide). In any case, from what little I've read, even the Spanish who ultimately killed most of them admitted what a remarkable and flexibile society these groups had. But like I said, I don't know too much about tribes in Central and South America.

    Your Mother

    Droopy - I'll show my mother the site you listed. I think she'll enjoy it.

    Margret - If my mother wins that scholarship (likely) she's almost garunteed a spot at the university of colorodo, but she's applying to a Lot of schools and I think she's most excited about Yale (I'm so proud) because they have a genocide studies program, and that's exactly what she's working in.

    RC - I'm gonna ask my momma about that.

    I love my mom.

By Semillama on Sunday, October 10, 1999 - 06:27 pm:

    love to debate your mom on linking historical societies with ones that existed 3000 years ago. Of course, I think her points are valid, but I also know that modern Indians claim that they have always had tremendous respect for the earth and such, which begs the question why Paleoindians killed entire herds of buffalo at once at sites like Head-Smashed-In Buffalo Jump up there in Canada. While the archaeologists aren't always right about ancient societies, neither are the descendents of those cultures. Indians will be the first to admit after all, that temporal history means little to them, in favor of a spatial worldview, which is probably a better way of looking at things than a strictly temporal one. I prefer a combination of both, which makes a good deal of sense if you're an archaeologist interested in changing landscapes over time.

    And of course, Indians are perfectly capable of having hierarchal societies, such as the cCentral American empires, and modern tribal governments. Now, these govts were introduced by the white man, but a lot of Indians jumped at the opportunity to gain power in a hierarchy.

    As an archaeologist, I like to look at what the material evidence says. If we just went by what people repeated as age-old beliefs, we'd still think that slaves had no autnomy at all on plantations, where as current research has shown a great deal of intersystem freedom in making certain lifestyle choices on many plantations, such as house construction and community arrangement, the ability to purchase commidities and own firearms. This is information not even mentioned in written documents of the period, so I don't always trust word-of-mouth accounts of how it was.

By Margret on Sunday, October 10, 1999 - 09:32 pm:

    Gee, you're Dine'h?
    Yaataheh (spellings on this in this alphabet vary, so I hope I done did it close enough).
    Yale is cool. New Haven is cool. Yale didn't accept me, as an under-grad. I've always felt vaguely inferior as a result. Their graduate schools are among the best in the woooooorld.
    They have awesome pizza in New Haven.
    Go, Gee's mom.

By Cyst on Sunday, October 10, 1999 - 09:41 pm:

    yale rejected me too.

    I got the letter saying that the best they could do was wait-list me on my birthday.

    I had known all along that if you weren't a legacy or minority it was practically impossible to get into the best of the ivy league schools, but I cried anyway.

By friendly on Monday, October 11, 1999 - 12:35 am:

    i wasn't impressed with pizza in new haven. it was so over-hyped to me that when i finally had some, it was merely good pizza and not much more. two boots in new york was waaaaay better. when i crave pizza, it's atlantic street pizza in seattle. purists would say that it isn't real pizza but purists are narrow-minded, narcissistic, spoiled brats and should stay the hell away from me when i'm eating.

By Cyst on Monday, October 11, 1999 - 01:09 am:

    the nice thing about atlantic street pizza is that the sauce is spicy instead of sweet.

By Gee and Her Mom on Monday, October 11, 1999 - 02:14 am:

    In response to RC's question, and Margret's comments:



    As far as I and any Injuns I know there was no such thing as an "upper level Indian" at least not in the sense non-Injuns perceive it. Even the title "Chief" is somewhat misleading because the Chief also has/had a council (made up the "common people") who gave him advise. If there were any "upper level Indians", it would be the children since most Injun groups considered children to be their greatest gift. Medicine women (and men) were also held in high esteem. But every person in the tribe had a role that he/she had to carry out to ensure the survival of the group.

    I have yet to have a spirit vision but the medicine woman and one of her helpers have and that's how I found out who my spirit helpers along with my "sacred" name were. In the sweat lodge I did see, hear and feel things which I told you already. When you go into a sweat, you never know what is going to happen. All this is a process and a rather lengthy process too.

    If there is such a thing as a Cherokee princess then I'm Queen Amadala herself (instead of being my usualy Yoda).


    Sem - My mother is going to Love replying to your comments about buffalo. =o)

By Agatha on Monday, October 11, 1999 - 12:14 pm:

    there is no better pizza than that which is found in new haven. friendly is wrong, as usual.

By friendly on Monday, October 11, 1999 - 01:43 pm:

    shut up, bytch.

By J on Monday, October 11, 1999 - 02:36 pm:

    That sounds so shitty coming from somone named friendly.

By Fetidbeaver on Monday, October 11, 1999 - 03:15 pm:

    Names can be deceptive. (ie; fetidbeaver)
    Friendly, still waiting for your address...and airfare......yes I am that "brash"

By friendly on Monday, October 11, 1999 - 03:30 pm:

    i swear to fucking god if i had the extra cash, i'd fly your ass out here today. we could go out for a nice meal, maybe catch a movie, (i wanna see three kings, unless you have a better choice) then we could come back to my place where i would pulp you with a 2 lb. california framer.

By Rhiannon on Monday, October 11, 1999 - 03:57 pm:

    Wow, that's almost romantic!

    Yale... I didn't get into Yale either, but then, I didn't think I would.

    My favorite professor is from Yale. I had him two years ago for an ancient Roman culture class I took. He is one of the most refined men I have ever met. He was really young and delicate looking. Once, I ran into him walking around campus at night when it was raining, so I offered him my umbrella, and I realized that if we happened to be set upon by thieves *I'd* have to be the one to protect *him*.

    His wife is also a Classics professor, and I used to imagine them talking about Juvenal over a light pasta dinner, and that image would warm my heart for some reason.

By Agatha on Monday, October 11, 1999 - 05:00 pm:

    i thought you were going to take me to "three kings." drat.

    aren't you supposed to be working?

By Jinafishes on Monday, October 11, 1999 - 08:01 pm:

    Friendly.. by chance where are you from?

By Swine on Monday, October 11, 1999 - 08:02 pm:

    didn't you say you were looking for a job yourself?

    try this:

    Professional Trainee--Clandestine Service

    The Central Intelligence Agency's Clandestine Service has entry-level employment opportunities for recent graduates possessing either bachelor's or master's degrees with solid academic credentials and at least a 3.0
    GPA. Any substantive degree is acceptable; however, qualified candidates with degrees in the following areas are preferable:

    International business/finance/relations
    Physical Science
    Nuclear/biological/chemical engineering

    Competitive candidates will also possess the following credentials and characteristics:

    Good oral expression
    Ability to write clearly and accurately
    Well-developed interest in foreign affairs
    Impeccable personal integrity
    Strong interpersonal skills
    Ability to handle ambiguity
    Ability to take calculated risks
    Foreign language proficiency
    Work experience is useful


    U.S. citizenship is required.
    Maximum age 35.
    All applicants must successfully complete two personal interviews, thorough medical and
    psychological examinations, a polygraph interview, and extensive background investigation.
    (Processing generally takes between 4-6 months.)
    Entrance salaries range from $31,000 to $38,000.

    Applicants accepted into the Professional Trainee (PT) Program will be assigned to Washington, D.C. for 2 years. During those two years, PTs will spend one year each working at two disciplines--Operations Desk Officer and Collection Management Officer. At the end of the two years, PTs will be assessed and evaluated for movement into the Clandestine Service Trainee (CST) Program, the traditional pipeline to serving overseas as an Operations Officer or Collection Management Officer.

    To Apply: Send your resume (including your college GPA) and a cover letter explaining your
    qualifications to the address below.

    Professional Trainee Program PO Box 12002, Dept. INTERNET Arlington, VA 22209-2002

    An equal opportunity employer and a drug-free work force.

    Return to CIA Web site at www.cia.gov

    if that doesn't work for you, you can always try for the chemical warfare analyst position.

By Cyst on Monday, October 11, 1999 - 08:31 pm:

    here's another employment opportunity. I've decided I'm not up for the job, but I would be happy to recommend others for the position.

    Wanted. Alcohol monitor and occasional companion to professional SWM, 35.

    Sobriety only necessary while in the company of employer.

    Capability for etiquette/courtesy not required.

    Unrealistic sense of entitlement encouraged.

    Salary commensurate with ability to alienate.

By friendly on Monday, October 11, 1999 - 08:56 pm:

    jina: olympia, wa. born and raised in tacoma, moved to seattle for about 10 years, settled in oly. i like it here the best.

By friendly on Monday, October 11, 1999 - 08:58 pm:

    oh, i forgot to mention the year i was up in the sky with my people. i still like it here best.

By Fetidbeaver on Tuesday, October 12, 1999 - 12:04 am:

    So what you're saying is when you raise the cash we have a date?

    Come on people of Sorabji land dig deep, give 'till it hurts.....board total to date is $1.68

    I'm willing to fly out of Des Moines IA, Cedar Rapids IA, Quad Cities IA/IL, Chicago IL, or St. Louis MO. (possibly Omaha Neb...if you throw in parking and a room at the Embassy Suites...The $198.00 room)

By Gee and Her Mumz on Tuesday, October 12, 1999 - 02:34 am:

    What's with that "maximum age" thing? Isn't that illegal?

    Re: Sem & Margret' comments - I don't show my mother my posts, so some things get repeated. Also, even though I've told her Semillama's name, she seems to have more fun just calling him my "chum".


    This one is for your archeologist chum:

    First, maybe you should tell your chum that part of my academic background was in the un-trendy area of anthropology - sorry about that.

    I know that a lot of contemporary Aboriginals (and other folks) tend to romanticize "the good old days". HIstorically, it would have been suicidal for Injuns to have killed too many buffalo. It is not romanticizing to say that we needed the buffalo along with whatever other animal, bird, fish and plant life existed in order to survive as a group. Part of what nearly killed all us Injuns was the disappearance of the buffalo which is what happened after more advanced shotguns and rifles appeared. I've heard that Head-Smashed-In-Buffalo-Jump thing along with the alleged disappearanced of the white pines forest here in Ontario (supposedly by Injuns). In my opinion, the truth is that nobody knows exactly what happened at Buffalo Jump. There have been speculations that the buffalo did it themselves, rather like when a group of whales decide to beach themselves and then die. Others say it was the result of some other phenomenon like fire, etc. but your archaeologist chum would know more about that than I would. Maybe some Injun kid decided to cause a stampede (although unlikely). It is also possible that Injuns, for some unknown reason, decided to drive all the buffalo off a cliff - Injuns can get a bit loony too BUT it would not be logical for an Aboriginal society to systematically kill off the food that sustained it. Where would they put the meat? In the freezer? We've been told that you never take more than you need not only for reasons of sustainability but because it goes against the Original Instructions given to us by the Creator - that animals give their lives to allow us humans, who are far weaker than the animals, to survive.

    As for the Injun view of time and space, I really don't know much about that except for the phrase "running on Indian time" which means that we are late for everything. What little I do know about this wouldn't apply to systematic buffalo killing.

    I have no disagreement at all with your chum's statement that:

    And of course, Indians are perfectly capable of having hierarchal societies, such as the cCentral American empires, and modern tribal governments. Now, these govts were introduced by the white man, but a lot of Indians jumped at the opportunity to gain power in a hierarchy.

    Unfortunately, this is true at the present time. Injun or rez politics can be much worse than anything the President or the Prime Minister (any of them) ever did. Consider that among the Wendat or Huron, missionaries and merchants would not deal with the women who were in charge of agriculture and "trading" but would only deal with the men. At the time, this caused a lot of shame among Wendat men and ultimately resulted in a complete change in gender roles - the first step towards the incredible amount of spousal abuse that goes on in Injun communities. The historical arrangement of women/agriculture and men/hunting wasn't hierarchical but it was a system that enabled the group to survive. The Europeans changed all that although a lot of Injuns are trying to reclaim their historical systems of politics, economics and social interaction.

    As for slavery, all I have is the opinion that slavery (stealing Africans mostly) is that it was necessary to have slavery in order to maintain the American (and Canadian) economic system. Slaves built North America after the English, French and Spanish took it away from us. It also interests me that the Underground Railroad went north from Canada to south to the USA. Mostly, I think all "evidence" is subject to more than one interpretation. I'd hate to think that anything I said was blindly accepted (well, maybe not). Recordkeeping was not the best in those times and most of our Injun learning has been passed along verbally - since most Injun languages had no written form, how else could language, an important part of our culture, be taught if not verbally. I know lots of stories got told to anthropologists that were bizarre lies and the anthropologists believed them!!!! But physical evidence is also open to interpretation. Maybe your archaeologist chum would like to come to York and talk to the students.

    To your other chum, Margret - yep we are half Dine'h and I know there are a lot of spellings for it (Dine, Dineh, etc.). Yep, I'm also thinking of trying Yale if I can figure out the instructions for the Fulbright award. I'm also trying the U of Coloraddy (hehe). I can't imagine Yale accepting me - a middle-aged, Injun female. But now that I know they have good pizza, I must make a point of getting good letters of reference so I can "get in".

    Did Gee tell you why I was excited about Yale?


By friendly on Tuesday, October 12, 1999 - 02:42 am:

    gee, your mom sounds cool.

    beav, i'm totally bored with this stuff. carry on if you must.

By Agatha on Tuesday, October 12, 1999 - 12:07 pm:

    friendly will never have the money. trust me on this one. it will have to be a charity run.

By Cyst on Tuesday, October 12, 1999 - 03:51 pm:

    someone who is not mark is sitting at mark's desk.

    I love the office cam.

By BK on Tuesday, October 12, 1999 - 05:48 pm:

    Gee, I would really like to meet you (and your Mumzy, she sounds way cool) if your interested mail me at BigKevin7@yahoo.com

    I know we live roughly in the same area.

By Semillama on Tuesday, October 12, 1999 - 09:32 pm:

    Your mom's great gee, even though we have professional differnces of opinion. Of course, prehistoric is not my speciality, i chose historic to get away from the real heavy politics.

    however, The evidence is pretty strong for human involvement at HSI and other buffalo jumps. Lots of cut marks from stone tools on the upper layers of bones, what seem to be constructed drives off the cliffs. What we have to remember is that we aren't talking about Historic Indians here butfolks who lived in a much different environment than even the guys back in 1491. We're talking lots of mega fauna here, and apparently the resource was so vast that folks could (probably) use kill methods like game drives. Plus there's all the big game anilmals that never made it to get wiped out by the white man, such as the north american camels, horses and mastodons, and giant tortoises as well. Of course, it's not clear what the impact North American cultures had on these species extinction, although there's some pretty good associations with increasing human activity and decerasing animal populations in this.

    Like I said, though, this isn't my area of expertise. If your mom wants to know about iron making or copper mining or settlement patterns of European Immigrants in the midwest after 1850, well,...

By Gee on Wednesday, October 13, 1999 - 12:48 am:

    I think my mom's great too. That's all I have to say till she can reply to the latest crop.

By Waffles on Wednesday, October 13, 1999 - 02:17 pm:

    in a temporal view of things. fuck all the facts......my wife is still a descendant of a Cherokee Princess.....and we make hot buffalo love in the tepee whenever we can......this tomahawk warrior sends a big DuckemFuckem to all.......

    love and skins
    little big deer

By Waffles on Wednesday, October 13, 1999 - 02:17 pm:

    in a temporal view of things. fuck all the facts......my wife is still a descendant of a Cherokee Princess.....and we make hot buffalo love in the tepee whenever we can......this tomahawk warrior sends a big DuckemFuckem to all.......

    love and skins
    little big deer

By heather on Wednesday, October 13, 1999 - 02:18 pm:

    north american CAMELS????

    can anyone elaborate? what else are we missing?

By Lucy Phurre on Wednesday, October 13, 1999 - 04:01 pm:

    I think that the primary problem is that you guys are arguing about this like there's one answer. The big mistake that people make, per my father, who is also an anthropologist, is that you are treating a whole bunch of cultures spread over a really wide area with a low population density, as one culture, and it's not.
    It's like this among Native American cultures:
    There are hierarchical cultures.
    There are communal cultures.
    There are patrlineal cultures.
    There are matrilineal cultures.
    There is a patrilineal, matrilocal culture in Canda, in which one of the primary important kinship relationships is the mother's brother/ sister's son relationship.
    There are cultures in which those born physically different were revered.
    There are cultures in which those born physically different were killed at birth.
    Many of these cultures were wiped out.
    Many of them are still here.

    But it's not like you can look up one historical record of one group of people and say "Native Americans did this"

    So that's my $.02

By J on Wednesday, October 13, 1999 - 05:40 pm:

    There are many different tribes out here,The Navajo is the biggest,We use to be house parents for delinquent Indian boys,that was a trip.There were Utes,Pimas,Apaches etc.,but no Navajos.I asked about it and was told all the smaller tribes resented the Navajo because they got more money from the goverment.That was one of the worst jobs I ever had,I was only 3 years younger than some of them and I was afraid of a couple of them,not that I let them know it.

By Gees Mum on Wednesday, October 13, 1999 - 06:22 pm:

    Semillama -


    When I speak about Injuns, I'm referring to the 50,000 years ago (some say 100,000 years) and the contemporary sense. If your chum is talking about pre-history then I can't even go there. Also, unlike your chum, I like the "real heavy politics". Most of what passes for history among today's Injuns goes back before Columbus and like I said, it was traditionally done verbally - the oral tradition.

    I'm still not sure that I agree with your chum about the "human involvement" about the buffalo but then I'm not an archaeologist. Phrases like "evidence suggests" and "it might be that" tend to make me think the person (not necessarily your chum) are speculating in much the same way anthropologists do (and even us lowlife environmental types). Maybe your chum can provide a rationate as to why any human or humanoid species would deliberately drive a herd of buffalo off a cliff when they depended on these buffalo to sustain themselves? Could the buffalo have been diseased? Unlikely but possible. Could the buffalo have been a threat? Again unlikely. Maybe a "rival" tribe drove them off in order to diminish the food supply of their "rivals" but again I think this is unlikely. Injuns just didn't wage war like that. Remember that film about the Lakota who, when they waged war, only touched their opponent but didn't kill or hurt him (before the really heavy colonialism arrived)? It was counterproductive for Injuns to kill either each other or animal, plant, insect or fish life. This doesn't even take into consideration their/our beliefs in our Creation stories.

    One thing .... I didn't know there were horses indigenous to North America - something your archaeologist chum mentioned. Most of the literature says horses were "imported" from Europe. That was interesting. Maybe your chum and I are talking about two different historical times. But I think discussing and even disagreeing on a "professional" level rather than a personal one is really great. Maybe I've even learned something. If he wants to talk about European settlement patterns in North America after 1850, I'm willing. Just expect an Injun response =)


By Simon on Wednesday, October 13, 1999 - 08:53 pm:

    so who killed off the giant beavers then?

By Nate on Wednesday, October 13, 1999 - 09:02 pm:

    who said they're all dead?

    i imagine they created a cloaking device, and now reside in the hidden reaches of mud lake.

By Rhiannon on Wednesday, October 13, 1999 - 09:44 pm:

    Did you hear about that frozen mastodon they found with buttercups undigested in its stomach? And for the life of them, all the scientists could never figure out how that mastodon got frozen not only in an area warm enough to grow buttercups, but fast enough so that the buttercups didn't have time to be digested? Supposedly it's one of the great unsolved mysteries of science.

By Sam on Wednesday, October 13, 1999 - 10:59 pm:

    i like officecam too

By heather on Wednesday, October 13, 1999 - 11:01 pm:


    they explain everything

By Gee and Her Mum on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 01:04 am:

    Okay, feel free to think I'm a psycho, but Waffle....joke or no joke, those are some really friggin' racist remarks you just made. I shouldn't be surprised with all the "poor little white boy" comments you're always making.


    Well, if the wife of Waffle is a Cherokee princess then I must be the Queen of England. He might be interested to know historically that us Injuns didn't have profanity in our vocabulary but I think I might be able to find the Dine'h word for "bottomfeeder". Where do you dig these guys up - does your archaeologist chum ever find relics like him when he's on a dig (no offense to the archaeologist chum) or do you just turn over a piece of shit and out he crawls. Besides, those who can - do; those who can't talk about it on public bulletin boards. I'd just ignore this guy - he's an attention seeker.

    PS: I doubt his tomahawk is little more than the size of a small needle (the kind we used in the past to make l'il Injun clothes). As for his being a warrior - hahahaha - is he willing to join the Micmac in their struggle for fishing rights. Meesa no t'ink so.

    Lucy: It is quite true that not all Aboriginal cultures are the same although there are a great many similarities. It is true that some are patrilineal, some matrilineal, some patrilocal, some matrifocal but the common threads are mainly respect for the land, respect for each other (we needed each other to survive) and respect for Creator (God) although he/she goes by different names according to each tribe or nation. From my limited time in anthropology and my eternity as an Injun she is correct that some who were born "different" are seen as blessed (e.g. scizophrenics by the Dine'h) while others are seen as being touched by the Dark Side. There are Aboriginals all over the globe and it would be wrong to say they are all alike.

    That's my two cents CDN worth about -$10.00US.

    Like mother, like daughter. =o)

By friendly on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 02:26 am:

    go gee's mum!

By Waffles on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 12:21 pm:

    wow the ability to completley miss a joke passes generations...

    Dear Gee and/or Gee's mum...

    if the use of cultural jargon constitutes racism then i suppose I am a "racist", however if you wish to politically (corectly I might add) padlock this world and make everyone afraid to say anything of humor in reference to other cultures, i suggest you keep it within the borders of your cold canada....otherwise life is too short to be caught up on the use of the words such as the ones I sarcastically used above. Let me guess you feel the use of Atlanta Braves, Washington Redskins, Cleveland Indians and so on is a racists too?
    I never said my wife was THE Princess, I said she had family lines connected to a Cherokee princess, lets not mince words.......
    .......whether or not my wife's claims (which is simply information passed from 3+ generations)has any historical background or not, I could careless, it's a tale passed from her great grandmother.....whether or it's true or not, is irrelavent. Obviously history can be blurred after a 100 years or so, especially on the small scale of one small family. As a non archeaologist, non native american historian and so on....I tend to thing like Sem does, in which he admits there are plenty of possibilities, there are no absolutes when it comes to this type of history.

    "He might be interested to know historically that us Injuns didn't have profanity in our vocabulary but I think I might be able to find the Dine'h
    word for "bottomfeeder""

    Well NO! I am not interested, I don't care, I haven't made any claims here other than that of personal family matters, of which you have felt compelled to divulge your great knowledge. Thats really super and all but please leave my penis out of this....
    "PS: I doubt his tomahawk is little more than the size of a small needle (the kind we used in the past to make l'il Injun clothes). As for his being a warrior - hahahaha - is he willing to join the Micmac in their struggle for fishing rights. Meesa no t'ink so."

    god you as childish as your daughter........hoser! (is that racism? it is cultural jargon?)

    oh and Gee, I believe I have seen the text "Fuck the French" come from your posts.......can we be an ymore "racists" ......

    lets git in the cage you and your mum......2 BIRDs with one magic whip of the tomahawk!!!!

By Swine on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 01:07 pm:

    i think that if you read between the lines, you'll find that she's not really calling you a "racist" per se at all.

    she's calling you an idiot.

By Waffles on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 01:13 pm:

    so are you vicariously calling me an idiot as well

By Gee on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 01:28 pm:

    One thing: never never never have you ever seen me say "fuck the french". Find one time. I never said it. I always said screw the rest of you, cuz I love the french. And um, french is not a race, so screw you once more waffleBoy. Oh yes, and Fuck you too. My mother is childish when she wants to be, but there's nothing wrong with that. And in the end she's still far far wittier than you and your drug-festered little peabrain.

    I hope Swine is happy. That's the second time I've sworn at someone. (is "sworn" a word?) Off to school!!

By Margret on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 01:32 pm:

    Oh, Waffles.
    Sometimes you make me laugh so hard I hurt something.
    Today, though, I am sick as the proverbial dog (maybe the White Dog of ceremony) with what gives every indication of being strep (no, I don't have health insurance so I had to go with the french fry, ketchup, salt test...and I failed). I believe my sense of humour may be in my tonsils somewhere, festering.
    In any case, and this is just a nit, the french are not a race. They're. Just. Not. They're a nation with a pretty long history and pretty semented culture, but they are not a race.

By Waffles on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 01:33 pm:

    so let's review......

    -i make personal statement about my wife's family history.

    -gee disputes it and/or the use of the term "princess"

    -i correct and suggest that in native american cultures there were indeed hierarchal systems whether or not they were "princesses" per se is irrelavent. we are hung up on cultural practices not vocabulary.

    -she brings in her mum who has obivously studied indigineous cultures....she disputes my claim

    -sem comes in and minces words to support that there in fact may have been hierarchal systems in the various native american cultures, specifically those of the southeast (i.e. Cherokee).

    -the two of them toss the ball back and forth.

    -i come in and make an attempt to humorously tell all that i wasn't so interested in the details, all the facts in the world cannot prove or disprove someone's personal family history, it's not so black and white.

    -Gee makes some dumb assed stament involving the word racism, her mum comes in outta left field and crafts a cute little insult with a potpourri bow on top for me and my wife, as if her knowledge grants her a pass to be an asshole,

    -I respond that they both seem like as childish as the other. I am attmept to reiterate... Your facts can all be debated, NOTHING is black and white as far as history as concerned, a passing statement about my wife's personal family history has all become of such fucking interest, and thats fine you can debate it all you like, the ideas, facts etc are all interesting, just don't be an ass about it and if you don't get joke that isn't directed towards you biute me and move on......and Mrs. gee's Mum, i am not seekiong attention, i get all i need, thanks for the psychoanalysis, but I have a psyche major for a wife, i get all the analysis i need......

    thank you!

    please sign out and leave the visitor badge with the guard and don't let the door hit to hard on the way out

By Waffles on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 01:38 pm:

    granted Gee, and thanks for nothing margret, hope you get better

By . on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 02:11 pm:

    i'm sorry you have a psych major for a wife

By J on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 02:12 pm:

    What a coinsidence Margret,I have strep throat too,I sound like Marge Simpson and it hurts to swallow,my glands are swollen.Waffles I tried in a way to change the way things were going,look on the bright side,I love you and Lucy actually agreed with you on another thread.

By Waffles on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 02:21 pm:

    having a psyche major for a wife is not as bad as you might think.......conversing with blockheads with no sense of humor is worse

    and J, thanks for the sentiment.....i feel some mother jokes coming on

By Waffles on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 03:14 pm:

    ok,, so i spoke with my wife and relayed all of this whohaw........i asked her to reply and she basically said fuck it, who are these people to debate my family history.

    so i will provide a synopsis

    her German heritage arrived in New Bern NC in the 1720s.....from that point on a sort "genealogy" book was started when they arrived. My wife has seen and read portions, her father has read it entirely. This book is located in the New Bern Library. The Richenbach family history (300 years later the name is Rivenbark..same family) In the book there is documentation of their settlement further west in NC, there is documentation of their encounters with the Cherokee in western North Carolina and one of the settler even went on to marry a daughter of a chief......my wife has seen this all with her own eyes in a crusty old fraile dusty book.........it's not something that can be disputed outright.....it's in black and white...now if someone in the family was lying somewhere along the way and fibbed in the book, obviously that is near impossible to prove/disprove.

    All of your study, all of your archeaology, etymology what have may make profound judgements about cultures before us but it is in no way absolute.

    So while you mom may be right Gee in a broad scale, she certainly doesn't have the localized knowledge about my wife's family heritage, and that's were she fucked up, so back to my rock to wait for sem to find me........

By Mrs. Waffleboy on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 03:43 pm:

    OK, this is ridiculous. Who said higher rank of anything? My father's side dates back to 1721, when they arrived in VA/NC, documented in letters, records, and family history in the New Bern Library, NC up to the 1930s or 40s. One son married the daughter of a Cherokee chief. Whether you want to call the daughter the "daughter of chief" or "princess" is really no matter,
    this is simply the old-fashioned, European-implied name for her. What I believe waffleboy was saying, was that someone we met saw, somewhere down the line of my general mutt-ness, that I had Cherokee features and I explained my lineage.

    What I find more fascinating is, how did waffleboy's general conversation bring about such snippy retort? It seems some are quick to judge one of trying to pass off false record; frankly, what would I, my family, or for god sakes a rural town in NC gain from making up something like this? I give full and due credit to those who have spent much more time and thought studying societies prior to our own, but as most can agree, information about these peoples prior to the 19th century is scarcely recorded. I would think this would be an interesting addition, rather than a source of debate.

    Now if anyone wants to see my pottery.....(haha)

By Antigone on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 04:22 pm:

    Everything is a source of debate here, Mrs. W...

By Mrs. Waffleboy on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 04:48 pm:

    Further (and you can post if you like), to gee's mom:

    It takes a certain class of human to use penis jokes as a response, but alas I do not join this site often. So to do as the romans

    1) I pity that your only comparison is to a small needle;
    2) and hands-down, waffleboy has the largest ahem that I have ever seen, in person, book, magazine, or hieroglyph. To
    quote his long-time buddies in brooklyn, "Willll-burrr" (said in Mr. Ed's voice)

By Nate on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 04:49 pm:

    i can't get out of this without opening myself up to ridicule, so:

    french is as much a race as indian... "race" has come to mean "culture of origin" or somesuch, these days, as literally we are all of one race.

    to which i say, FUCK THE FRENCH.

    i have nothing against any individual french person, but the French, as a group and country, have pissed me off in their past actions.

    for that matter, FUCK THE AMERICANS.

    actually, FUCK ALL HUMANITY.

    there you go. i'm a racist.

    this arguement is stupid.

    i had too many beers at lunch.


    actually, FUCK DEBEERS! they're warehousing diamonds and raping the poor. those goddamn cocksuckers (goddamn, to contrast with regular cocksuckers, of whom on an individual basis i have no issue with, but as a whole, as encompassed in the rest of humanity, i dispise.)

    I AM A YETI.

    eat me.

By Waffles on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 04:52 pm:

    beers for lunch eh? chuggin a tall boy in the parking lot or pints of anchor steam at applebee's

By J on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 05:09 pm:

    I like penis jokes,what does this all mean??

By Nate on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 05:29 pm:

    waffle's mom says gee has a small penis, but gee's wife say that waffle has MR. ED's penis in a box under the bed.

    gee is female. i know this.

    we were at Stoddard's, a brewpub in Sunnyvale. we were all dressed nice so we decided to act like important people. and the sales guy said "hey, if we talk business, i can expense this." so they drank 18 year old scotch and I tried everything they had on tap. except for the ciders. and i doubled up on the porter. it was good. the ESP was ok, the pale was rather bland, and the Alt was tasty. but i didn't have room for another Alt after the second porter. i also had a meditranian chicken salad.

By Swine on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 05:35 pm:

    it's like sonny bono said.

    "la da-da dee,

    la dee-dee da.

    and the beat goes on..."

    a new virtual cage will be built in the cyber-wilderness to accomodate all contenders' relatives who are in-absentia but still desire to enter the fray.

    now excuse me while i subtract 500 points from my personal scoreboard for having the bad taste to qoute a sonny and cher song.

    thank you and goodnight.


By Waffles on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 05:36 pm:

    they have good pubs up that way, we got tanked ina pub in Monterey called Mucky Ducks or perhaps Murky Ducks, but i believe it to be the former...........I had never had Anchor Steam before, even even heard of it for that matter....NOT BAD......we spent a few hours in this place, chatted with some guy from Lodi who claimed he was Lou Rawls brother, i believed him for the sake of good bar chat. He was good bloke. I was convinced the barkeep was a pot dealer. He kept referring to his run he had to make up in Humbolt....and how the waves were tops the previous day near pebble beach. i thought he was speaking a little too loudly if that was the case.....I drank a few good cidars as well. I truly love a good cider on tap. It's not as good in a bottle for whatever reason. I love how all the bars up ther have a great selection of taps, where as the majority of bars here have shit beer on tap and dcent one's in bottles........fuck ...all this beer talk is prompting me to skip class tonight for few pints

By Waffles on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 05:39 pm:

    Love and Rockets did a decent cover of that song (if we are speaking of one and the same), hey!!! we forget them on the goth board........

    OH WOW!!! they are playing Eggs and Unrest on the radio....must be DC Teenbeat record hour! Right on....

By Nate on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 05:48 pm:

    a run to humboldt can also be made for kegs of good beer, i would think.

    people up north have taste. people down south have attitude. this is why there should be two californias.

By Rhiannon on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 05:49 pm:

    Eggs! Was't Andrew Beaujon in Eggs? I like him.

    I was listening to my old WGNS Gots No Station compilation recently (which has Eggs' "Evanston" on it). Whatever happened to 9353? Or Edsel, for that matter? I love Edsel. They put out an EP a couple years ago, but no word since then. They have/had really clever lyrics.

By Waffles on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 05:53 pm:

    in regards to that comparison..... given my personality i would align with the north. Where I come from, people don't have any attitude and they may not have as much taste but they sure as hell know how to be good to each other and have a good time......friendships are loyal ones for the most part........if i had the extra cash, i would move to SF.....i just god damned love it there........of course its so easy to write off anyone from SoCal that way, we are fortunate to have a handful of good peeps around us

By Waffles on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 05:57 pm:

    yeah thats the one, you know i was real close to being their new drummer but then we decided to move back atlanta instead. The other member Rob produced a song for our 7"......it was actually after i had left the band and moved, but he's a super cool guy. Did andrew ever get his solo shit going? I love Eggs, Grenadine, Unrest, Edsel was good too........what ever happend to that whole Tsunami/Simple Machines Unrest/Teenbeat scene, are they still in business?

By Rhiannon on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 07:18 pm:

    Andrew's solo project is just under his own name, and the album is called "A Raw-Boned June" (which -- look how clever he is -- is the letters of his name rearranged). I've never been able to find it, but I read a really favorable review of it a while back.

    Simple Machines is dismantled, from what I know (that was Jenny Toomey's label, right? If not, whatever was her label is the thing that is no more). Tsunami is also dismantled. I think. I was reading somewhere recently that Jenny is really arrogant and very possessive of her boyfriend. I don't know what this has to do with anything musical she does...but...whatever. I always liked her voice.

    Unrest/Teenbeat -- I don't have a clue.

    What a lucky dog you are. You should have stayed with Eggs.

    Did you ever hear (of) a band called Soul Side? That was 3 of the future Girls Against Boys boys (with the 4th doing the engineering) and Bobby Sullivan. Last I heard, Bobby was in a band called Sevens...but he seems to have dropped off the face of the earth. I liked his voice too, for some really strange reason, because it's not that great (to say the least), but there was just something I liked about listening to him.

By Waffles on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 07:49 pm:

    yes I know soulside, dischord thing.......yeah that was Jenny Toomey's label, U had acrush on er and i too loved her voice, but after meeting her at one of their shows, she was a little powder puff, kinda like the bitchy bitch head of the SGA or something like that.

    Well, when i wrot eto Rob of Eggs, he said thewy would be looking for a new drummer for a temporary thing, at this time we were deciding if we were going to move to DC to Atlanta (from Raleigh)... he said in his letter that Andrew is considering asolo project and Eggs may not be a thing for much longer.....he did say if i did move to town to give him a call he would be able to help me out one way or another, either with Eggs or someother project.......we moved to Atlanta, and we created and even more fantastic band there and were quite successful around town until we came here....SIGH i miss my old bassist, we made crazy mad love in the studio palying music together...

By Rhiannon on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 08:31 pm:

    What was your band in Atlanta?

By Margret on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 12:14 am:

    I, personally, stay only for the ad hominem attacks. I could give a shit about the substance of any of these threads, I like to imagine this whole shebang as a party where I've stayed just sober enough to turn nasty instead of getting joyous. You are all the dearly beloved friends with quirks and personality traits which I despise despite my genuine affection for you. In a couple of days, you forgive me for being such a pretentious and sanctimonious bitch, I look forward to the next time I'm just sober enough to be angry and just drunk enough to not keep my thoughts behind my lips where they belong.

By Gee on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 01:04 am:

    I'm not going to play anymore. this really Is stupid.

    I'm not letting my mother play anymore either. She deserves better.

By Antigone on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 02:13 am:

    We all deserve better. But what we got is each other, so ya might as well play.



    'n' stuff.

By J on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 03:43 am:

    Just play nice,Waffles,Gee,breakout that peace pipe.Love ya,s

By Nate on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 10:33 am:

    i hear the meat curtians flappin'.

    gee, please do not deprive us of your mom.

By Swine on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 11:05 am:

    margret, i would never forgive you.

    i would openly show my complete and total hatred for your groundless pretense and constantly jab sharp sticks in the sensitive fleshy spots that remain exposed despite the heavy armor that bitchery provides. when i summoned up enough energy to give a shit, i would covertly sabotage your hopes and dreams and then hunt you down in your private place so i could point and laugh as you sob and cry.
    i'd turn your closest friends against you and have them get a collection going to raise enough money to pay a big 250 pound bull-dyke latino lesbian to kick your ass and make you her fist-bitch for a weekend. or two.
    when you were passed out i'd dose your water-bottle with enough LSD to give tim leary a bad one, then tattoo "JEWISH PRINCESS" on your forehead and put you on a greyhound bus to bumfuck, alabama.

    after you recovered and came back home from the psych ward, i'd find you at the next party so i could sincerely apologize for my evil deeds, deftly regain your love and trust, and promptly do it all over again.

    so when are we going out?

By Nate on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 11:08 am:

    i made a pee pee in my knickers.

By Semillama on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 11:35 am:

    Is it only me, or can anyone else see all the weird text at the bootm of the page under the links? It's probably just me.

    I talked to my prehistorian colleague, who knows a lot more about bison kills than i do. He says that if Paleoindians weren't running the bison off of jumps on purpose, then they were follwoing the "fly pillars" which would indicate the location of a mass bison suicide (which sounds just as ludicrous as a supposedly environmentally conscious group of folks running a herd of bison off a cliff...), and that they would be scavenging rotting flesh. (A "fly pillar" is aa awesmome image: a great black cloud of flies stretching up into the sky above any scene of mass death).

    Re: camels and horses and giant tortoises: WE had these creatures here in NA, which became extinct within a short period of time after the arrival of man in their habitats. There are still camels in South America: Llamas, Vicunas, and their relatives. Horse were reintroduced with the Spanish raiders back in the 16th century.

    Re: Mastodons. Apparently, a grouop of Japanese scientists are working on cloning one and reintrocing the species back into existence. I say, go for it.

    Re: Mr. Ed's Penis. Nothing compared to a Yeti schlong.

By Nate on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 11:38 am:

    sem, you are damn right. nothing compares to a yeti schlong.

By Agatha on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 11:47 am:

    what he said.

By Agatha on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 11:50 am:

    by the way, it is still a source of endless amusement for me that men are so fucking insecure about the size of their member. i mean, when you really think about it, how big does it need to be to do the job? it's just a body part, for crying out loud! can you imagine if we carried on this way about our noses, or our ears, or our pinkies?

By ________ on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 12:00 pm:

    i have massive thumbs.

By J on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 12:03 pm:

    What about women and their cans?

By Waffles on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 12:17 pm:

    who is insecure?

    yeah antigone, we should play! play hard! and try to kick as little sand in each other as possible, but some folks take something lighthearted and make it an issue, screaming brats thinking they know more than the next. some hold out long enough to only say things that make themselves look good, cliq-ish, meanwhile life is passing you by...........all of you, despite what you may think,you would be delighted to know me and my wife in person, if we met in a bar, conversation would be tops, either that or we wouldn't give you the time of day, but for some reason, folks like to challenge little things I say, overall thats not a problem, i'll talk back cause i am that way, but conflict can be avoided more often than not. I have no enemies in real life, except that fucker that almost raped my wife, that 7ft big mutha fuckin coke dealer, cheap sonofafuck!. he showed his face at the bar last night after 4 months of abstinence, he was up to his old routine, peeps walkin out of the bathroom and making frequnt trips outside, rubbing their noses and fidgeting with their cigarettes, he came over to me and put his hand on my shoulder and started to apologize AGAIn for doing what he did to my wife, before he finsihed his sentence i told him to get his fucking hand off me, he said "what?"...i said "DON'T TOUCH ME MOTHERFUCKER!!!!" he said, "i see how it's gonna be" and walked off. that bitch mother fucker took advantage of my wife, while she was picking up a comp, from when he dicked me hard.........he is 7ft, tall lanky, basketball superstar wannbe, she was taking care of me because he juked me one time, i should have louisville slugged his knee caps when i had the chance, he grabbed her, picked her up, pinned her to the bed, my wife is smart, psyche dgree kicked in, she didn't scream, she didn't thrash about, she started to cry and said in a calm soothing voice "your scaring me", "you have to let me go, you are scaring me" about this time, i called her cell, i was at the darkroom, i was unaware she had taken a cab over to his place to pick up this package, angry sam even advised her it would be ok for her to go, he wasn't thinking, he is single, his 37 years on this planet should have told him that was a no no ..never leave your women alone with a 7ft coke dealer, it's bad, their are all the devil.....jes git your shit and run.....when i realized she was gone, and i called her cell phone and she told me where she was, my heart skipped, my face flushed, i KNEW what had happened before she could even tell me in the car.....i told her to leave the house nad wait in the street, then he wasnt going to give her what he had promised, telling her well if it's gonna be like this than forget it, she pleaded and said he was being an asshole and he had already fucked up, she assured him i would hear about this and he had better becareful, he blocked the door, but said she "pitied him", he moved like the monkey he still is..........that night we waited out side his place, but he never left, or he went out a back door, me and angry sam had a plan for him, that 7ft super bitch was never gonna throw another basketball again, at least not standing up....... we were destined to send him to the special olympics, we were scared shitless, we were very scared, we didn't have a gun and i didn't think he did either, but you can never be sure, he didn't know where i lived, nor did he have my phone, we let it go until last night, what would you do? how would you act? Simon? Beav? Dave? Nate? Swine? Fellas...how would you act? what would you do? Seriously? no swine jibber jargon, no answers involving truck mounted deer racks or weird pharmacological concoctions...seriously think about it, seriously contemplate, put yourself in that position........what would you do?

By Waffles on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 12:23 pm:

    good point J

By heather on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 12:24 pm:

    why wouldn't you give someone the time of day?

By Margret on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 12:26 pm:

    Waffles, not to be a bitch (I'm actually all contrite today for some reason), but why didn't you ask what _I'd_ do? I mean, I don't have a wife, but I have close female friends, and I am a woman myself...
    Yah know?
    Amd I can tell you what I'd have done.
    Aren't you even curious?

By Waffles on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 12:31 pm:

    because i want a male perspective....i suppose i would be happy o thear what you have to say, but i wanted a male perspective......so don't be a bitch alright

By Semillama on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 12:35 pm:

    I am.

    I probably would realize that i should only buy coke from 98-pound weklings with rescue inhalers.

    Then again, I don't even buy drugs anymore, people just give them to me.

By J on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 12:36 pm:

    I know you didn,t ask the women here,but what the hell.Coke dealers that rape women usually pack heat,I should know.Call silent witness and tell them all you know about him.You have his phone number and address,fuck with him,he will get all paranoid before he gets busted.

By Waffles on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 12:40 pm:

    please don't misunderstand, i didn't directly ask the women, but that doesn't mean you can't respond, sorry to confuse, please feel free

By Margret on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 12:45 pm:

    I would write an angry message (Like "I am a rapist asshole") onto his door with q-tips and lighter fluid (as long as he didn't live in a tinderbox that would actually go up in smoke when i set it on fire instead of just scorching the message into the wood/onto the metal). Then I would light it on fire. And I would wait outside with about 6 other angry women, and a bunch of baseball bats. And I would break bones, if he came out. If he didn't, I would shit on the windshield of his car.

By J on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 12:57 pm:

    See why I love her?

By Waffles on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 12:59 pm:

    if he had a car, which he doesn't we thought about stickering and spray painting such things......i would hbe hesitiant to deface his apartment, that would onvolve his landlord, they ahave lawyers, plus it is behind a security door. all apartments in la are behind security doors.

By Margret on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 01:01 pm:

    What's a security door?

By Waffles on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 01:16 pm:

    you know, you dial a code, it buzzes your pals, they buzz you in, sometimes glass, mostly though iron,

By Semillama on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 02:08 pm:

    I like the silent witness idea. It's the best thing to do. If he goes to jail, he'll likely get done to him what he wanted to do to Mrs. Waffles.

    Hey waffles, is your mom's sister Aunt Jemima? Jsut wondering. ( you see waffles = syrup and... never mind)

By Waffles on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 02:20 pm:

    Mrs Butterworth, she creeps me out though,,,,,,

By Simon on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 02:29 pm:

    All kidding aside, I'd take a steel pipe to the outside of his leg, just below the kneecap, from behind. You can feel the spot, it's the bump at the top of the fibula. Swing like you're goin for the cheap seats, preferably while the body weight is mostly on that leg. The fat end of a pool cue works well, too.

By J on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 02:42 pm:

    And then stick the pool cue up his ass.

By ______ on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 05:25 pm:

    i've always thought biting off someone's nose was a good way to get revenge on someone. i guarantee they will never forget you. whatever you do, make it really scary. and be prepared for retaliation.

By Waffles on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 05:48 pm:

    thanks line

    thats the best advice i have had all day

By _____ on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 07:51 pm:

    knock them out, bite off their nose, and leave a pair of nose-glasses in their hand.

    do the humpty-hump.

By Fetidbeaver on Saturday, October 16, 1999 - 06:18 pm:

    If he has enemies (real enemies) take him at gun point to their neighborhood turn him over to them. If he survives, call the silent witness thing. Or go animal on his ass in a public place in a fashion that most would consider to be temporary insanity, then hope for an understanding jury.


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