I can't believe you broke my heart

sorabji.com: Can men and women just be friends?: I can't believe you broke my heart

By Bitter no more on Saturday, May 22, 1999 - 08:39 am:

    I just met my ex who broke my heart and left it in a crumpled mess at the foot of my bed.

    Well, the thing is....



    I'm sorry to be cruel and everything bu it feels so GOOD!

By Belle on Sunday, May 23, 1999 - 04:52 am:

    ooooooooooooh I love that feeling!! I used to like a guy who I thought was 'dreamy' and he only went out with me cause he liked one of my good friends.. *bastard* anyhow... i saw him a few months ago... HES FAT AND UGLY!!!!!! and he was with a girl that was also just as ugly. And me being self centred in a dress that was half her size.. was glowing and admiring my current boyfriend who.. likes me.. and not my friends.

By ducking for cover on Sunday, May 23, 1999 - 05:13 am:

    do you all know what you're doing bringing up this 'looking down on people because they don't live up to certain physical standards' issue?

    or maybe they'll let it pass filed under 'insanity due to the sweetness of being avenged'

By R.C. on Sunday, May 23, 1999 - 05:35 am:

    No harm/no foul.

    All's fair in Love & Revenge.

    Esp. becuz the B-side cd've been that you ran into yr-ex & he was now dating a supermodel.

By Skinny shallow daddys cyst on Sunday, May 23, 1999 - 10:16 am:

    a guy once didn't call me back and I was pissed but then I saw him on campus and he looked like the modeling agency was going to have a big problem with his new haircut, hahaha.

    r.c., tell us a good revenge story. you must have lots.

By R.C. on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 01:07 am:

    Geez ! Whaddya you people think I am -- Cruella de Ville?

    Revenge, revenge, revenge.... Truthfully/I don't have any juicy revenge stories. The wildest shit I ever did was cheat w/my ex's best friend after I caught my ex in bed w/someone else back in college. Which is fairly typical.

    Oh yeah -- I set a guy's car on fire once. (All this stuff happened in my under 30 days. I'm a good girl now...) He drove a Corvette/which he'd bought w/dough he'd earned running a Ponzi scheme. (He'd kept it small & short-term/& everyone involved actually did make $$. So nobody ever dimed on him.) This guy put the serious rush on me for, like, 4 mos. And I just didn't wanna be bothered w/anybody at the time/but he was very persistent. He never let more than 10 days go by without calling to ask me out. So I finally went out w/him. He was very funny/not as intelligent as I wd've hoped. He never read anything but the newspaper. But he was cool enuf to hang out with. Except for the fact that he was very vain abt his looks & his car. Which tuned me off. But he seemed to be all abt me/so I figured what the fuck/right?

    Anyway/after dating him for abt 3 or 4 mos./one Fri. nite he'd stood me up/claiming his Vette wdn't start. (It less than 6 mos. old!) But one of my homegirls saw him at the movies w/some other chick that same nite. (Not the local spot -- - he tried to be slick & went to the movies on the oppostie end of the Island/& STILL got busted!) So I kept that little bit of info to myself. I didn't confront him or anything/& we continued seeing each other. I waited abt 3 mos./until he went down to Atlanta to visit one of his homies. He'd flown/& he had no garage/so his car was in his driveway. I snuck out of a party that Sat. nite /drove to his hse. poured nail polish remover all over his car/added some lighter fluid gel/& set his little blue Vette on fire.

    Unfortunately/I cdn't stay to see if it blew up -- I hadda get back to the party (I'd volunteered to make the beer run). I found out one of the neighbor's saw it & called the fire dept. pretty quickly/so it didn't get totally incinerated. And he was fully insured/so he just went & bought himself another one. But the ins. co. did take a long time to pay up/becuz they suspected he was involved in the arson.

    I don't think he ever suspect I had anything to do w/it. I quit him a couple of months later. No big whoop.

    But it was fun torching his ride!

By Cyst on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 05:21 am:

    thank you!

By Margret on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 09:47 am:


    I have never had revenge against an ex-.

    And now I feel it as a lack, whereas before I hadn't realized it. Most of my exes number among my best friends, but there are a special few who deserve special treatment.

    Oh well, too late now. I could probably track a few of them down, but I don't have the energy. Besides, instant Karma's gonna get them

By Sheila on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 11:01 am:

    I believe in assisting with the karma, as much as necessary. If they asked me, I could write a book. Now I'm going to spend the rest of the day wallowing in sweet revenge reminisces. I sure would like some VODKA with that, but oh well.

By Margret on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 11:14 am:

    Nobody told me there'd be days like these.

    Nobody told me there'd be days like these.

    Nobody told me there'd be days like these.

    Strange days indeed.

By Swine on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 11:34 am:

    let me get this straight:

    you were going out with a guy you didn't really like.
    he stands you up to go out with some other woman...

    so you try to blow up his car?!?


    seek help.

    if i were nate, i'd be going into hiding right about now.

By Margret on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 11:41 am:

    Oh Swine.

    She dated him for several months, both before and afterwards.

    She was retailiating against the sneakiness. The underhandedness. The lying.

By J on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 12:15 pm:

    Most peculiar mamma.

By Cyst on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 01:22 pm:

    I once got mad at a seattle housemate/coworker who had a crush on me and went into my room while I was visiting portland.

    me and him and a bunch of other people had just moved into this house in seattle's u district. I hadn't yet received the key to my room when I left for a between-quarters break in portland.

    anyway, this guy called me in portland and asked if he could go to the nirvana/dinosaur jr. show with me, if he could use my other ticket.

    I did not want to see him in portland, I did not want him bothering me and my date, so I lied and told him I wasn't even going to go to the show.

    he kept bothering me about it, asking why, asking if he could have my tickets, etc. I told him I didn't even have the tickets, that I left them in seattle.

    the tickets were only like $8, the show had not sold out (pre-nevermind days). he could have bought his own.

    "do you know where you left them?"

    "no," I lied.

    I had left them in my dear teenage diary. the one that the last person (besides your parents) that you'd want to see it is this guy who lives with you, works with you and has a crush on you. knows the whole cast of characters and has a real interest in what the damn thing says.

    anyway, so the next day he calls me again and tells me he found the tickets (asshole!) and was going to use them. I told them they were my fucking tickets and not to come to portland. he told me like hell and that by the way, he read my diary and all my old letters while he was at it.

    so I see him at the show and am so fucking pissed off that in the mosh pit I grab his hair like he's my little brother and try to wrench it off his head. then he socks me in the eye. then my date has a word with him and pulls me away from him.

    so anyway. I cannot wait to get back to seattle. I am very seriously considering arson at this point. the words "torch his room" go through my head, although without a corresponding vision. (how would I "torch" his room? and what wouldn't the fire spread to my own room eventually?)

    after the show my t-shirt and shorts and practically dripping with sweat, my own and that of others, from the show. I spend the night at my date's house, which is much closer to the train station than my own.

    in the morning I call my parents, to whom I don't want to have to explain the black eye, and tell them I'm leaving on the first train to seattle and that I guess I don't need my stuff, I'll come back in a few weeks.

    I couldn't bear to wear that disgusting t-shirt, so I put on my thick wool sweater next to my skin. it was late june and I hadn't showered since before the show and the train was slow and hot and I was mad and bruised and this australian guy wouldn't stop talking to me.

    I finally got home and introduced myself to a new housemate from colorado. the theiving diary-reading housemate was gone when I returned (and had put a lock on his door in anticipation of retaliation), so I started to break into his room from outside, pushing through the window.

    my new plan, which I formulated on the train, was to break in half every precious subpop single he owned. maybe scratch up his cds too.

    but before I could kick out the rest of the broken window and crawl in, I noticed that my hand was bleeding. in fact, my wrist was pretty fucking torn up. in fact, I could see the yellow fat and red blood vessels and was that white a nerve or bone?

    on my way to the front door I left a trail of blood, and then I knocked and asked my nice new roommate if she could please call an ambulance.

    she said ok and got me a towel, and I explained to her, "really, I am not crazy. do you believe me?"

    "it doesn't matter," she said.

By Nate on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 01:38 pm:


    are all women so sick, or is this just coincidental, based on this sample of society?

By Cyst on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 01:41 pm:

    hell hath no fury like a woman pissed.

    that is by far the craziest stunt I've ever pulled. and I have a 40-stitch scar to remind me never to be so stupid again.

    plus, r.c. and I were young when we did these things. most girls grow up, take things less seriously. I think.

By Swine on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 01:47 pm:

    good luck.

By Cyst on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 01:48 pm:

    they made me talk to a social worker before they let me leave the hospital. (standard procedure for wrist laceration patients?)

    I told the above story to him.

    he said, "next time, use a rock.

By Nate on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 01:59 pm:

    those kids who walked into that highschool in colorado were young too.

By Margret on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 02:48 pm:

    You know what?

    I'm not young. And if some asshole ransacked my room and read my diary and stole my dino. jr./nirvana tix, he would be lucky to get off with the CD destruction Cyst planned.

    When I was young, I had problems with anger. I never expressed it, I thoroughly repressed it. Not now. I can't believe, Nate and Swine, that you're contributing to the insanification of women. You think that shit's scary? Property damage on this scale bothers you? Cyst didn't see it through, R.C.'s minor arson netted the ass-slobber a new car.

    No, I would've scared the fuck out of him. I would have brought out the baseball bat. And I would have used fruit. And I would have explained to the other housemates first so they would have known to be prepared. I think in all probability I would've batted overripe grapefruits through his window into his room. That's a possibility. The other possibility is that when I spotted him in the pit, I would have had a couple of friends ready and waiting. People he couldn't recognize. He wouldn't have been permanently scarred, but he might have had to eat through a straw for a while. And it wouldn't have been about the tickets so much as the violation involved in going through my shit. By the age of 17 (and I don't know what age this took place at for him) you fucking know better. And you expect consequences.

By Nate on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 03:04 pm:

    all i'm saying is why should anyone expect such consequences? especially over trivial matters?

    relational rifts DO NOT justify violence. violence doesn't even justify violence.

    who told me to hold back my guns? who was right then? why is there a double standard for scorned women?

    left-eye (of TLC) burnt down her football playing hubby's mansion for some tivial relational reason. she got PROBATION.

    society allows women to justify psychotic behavior entirely too often.

    how much jail time did lorena babbit face?

By Margret on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 03:17 pm:

    Nate, punkin.

    I told you to restrain yourself in part because it was her deal to confront, and you would muddy the emotional waters even further.

    And I'm not really for property damage. Though I am for beating the crap out of fruit ALL THE TIME, no apologies.

    And it's not trivial for me, this event as related by Cyst. R.C.'s story, now, I can't really get behind. But I understand the loathing of the sneaking. I would've just dumped the asshole.

    Cyst's housemate expected retaliation.

    He bought a lock for his door.

    He 100% knew his behaviour was wrong.

    I hate it when people call angry women crazy. When I have a bit more time I will go crazy on this topic.

By Swine on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 03:26 pm:

    <<I can't believe, Nate and Swine, that you're contributing to the insanification of women.>>

    get the fuck outta here.

    i just deleted the long response i wrote cuz i don't think that crap merits recognition.

    suffice it to say this: if the man you're going out with is a fucking jerk, then leave him.

    any halfway stable person should have more sense than to attempt to engage someone else by destroying his/her property over trivial bullshit.
    what the fuck is that about, anyway?

    i'll never understand why some women think embracing that behavior is acceptable and empowering.

    it's just nutjob logic, really.

    which contributes to the insanification of women.

    and i wasn't talking about cyst.

    if someone broke into my apartment, i'd track them down and invert both of their elbows.

By Bagpuss on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 03:31 pm:

    Nate's right. If I burned up my ex's car (it was me who started this post btw) I'd be in jail. But a woman can have all these revenge fantasies and it's seen as fiesty or fiery (no pun) not violent or psychotic.

    This is belittling to women I know, but it's a double standard where women come out on top.

    He cheated on you so you burned his car - what the fuck?

By R.C. on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 03:38 pm:

    Look, in my whole life I've only ever done 3 Very Bad things:

    1. As a kid/I set a house on fire. It was an illegal apt. made out of a converted garage. No one lived there -- it was full of old clothes & junk. It attrracted HUGE wood rats! We used to play softball in the lot next door to the house w/this apt. on the property. The people who lived on the other side of this eyesore repeatedly asked the owners to clean out he mess & put out rat traps. To no avail. Once I was playing outfield & stepped right on a rat that was hiding in the grass. Which made me miss the ball. Which cost us the game. I remember it becuz it was the last softball game I ever got to play w/the boys. (I was starting to develop breasts then/circa age 12). Suddenly/my Mom started making me wash dishes after dinner. (Never my brother -- just me!) So by the time I got outside/the guys had already chosen up sides & started playing.

    If that rat had bit me/I cd've ended up w/hantavirus or god knows what!

    So that weekend/my brother & our homie & I made a molotov cocktail/tossed it thru the already-broken window/& torched the apt. bldg. Which was far enuf back from the owners' acutal residence not to cause a threat.

    2. As an adult/I did one Very Bad Thing which I'll keep to myself/thankyouverymuch. Again/it involved a man. And again/he got what he deserved.

    3. And I torched a guy's car. Becuz he lied to me & cheated on me. (Which is probably what kept me from diggin' on him too much). Even someone you're dating casually has an obligation to be truthful w/you. If he'd said "Look/I want us to hang out/but I wanna be a free agent as well" that wdn't have been a problem. I wd've told him "Fine -- but don't expect to have me in yr bed if you're seeing other women." And we cd have proceeded accordingly. But noooo -- he was all abt pretending he was all abt being my man & having me as his woman. He wanted the bootay
    & lied to get it. So fuck him & his car!

    Do 3 little incidents make me some kind of hytserical freak?

    And I wd NEVER do any shit like that to Nate.
    Nate's a sweetheart & not inclined to play the cad. If he's all abt a honey/that's where his time & his private parts will be. And I know I cd never have anything more than a torrid one-nite stand w/Natorious becuz he's in Cali.

    (But hey -- a little is better than none!)

    Ditto for Swine/who is just too divine not to spread his charms far & wide thruout the greater metropolitan NY area.

    But I'd never do anything like that again. I am a grown-up now. *sniff*

By R.C. on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 03:41 pm:

    So Nate thinks I'm a psycho now... Lovely.

    (And my advice to you re: keeping yr hands to yrself doesn't relate here. If you'd told me you planned to torch Mr. Sleazy lawyer's car/I wd've been all for that shit.)

By Swine on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 03:48 pm:

    yeah, except you'd have had him torch this lawyer's car without hearing the whole story. he'd be commiting a felony solely on the word of some woman he's smitten with.

    bad kung fu.

By J on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 03:56 pm:

    If I could type and spell,I,d write a book,men do
    the same thing.This is why wowen are from Venus
    and men are from Hell.

By J on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 04:03 pm:

    I meant woman are from Venus.You all know I can,t spell.

By Margret on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 04:09 pm:

    There is a double standard for women's anger.

    If I popped a cap in the ass of some shitstain who'd been beating on me for several years, I'm reasonably certain I could get away with a light sentence. If some poor guy being beaten on by his woman did the same thing, he'd probably get the book mega thrown at him, and our entire culture would condemn him because she was able to beat on him in the first place. And that totally sucks.

    And it wouldn't get me in a tizzy if every time I got pissed off about being the only one buying groceries, or whatever, some frigging guy didn't ask me if I was ragging it. Like the only kind of anger I can have is outside choice. Like the only kind of rage I can feel comes from my goddamned (admittedly evil and toxic) ovaries.

    It wouldn't send me into a frenzy if just talking about violent fantasies didn't get women called psychotic, whereas men understand then men are fantasizing. I tried to beat my little brother to death with my fists last year -- I did not succeed, it lasted two minutes, and it was gone as suddenly as it had come. I could not have controlled it had my life depended on it. On the other hand, it wasn't hormonal. It wasn't some sort of me being a woman thing. It had everything to do with my little brother, my mother, my father, and I'm sure either of my older brother's were capable of the same response to the same trigger. But they would have done more damage. Because (a) I'm physically weaker than both of them, and (b) I'm the most rational one of the siblings -- reason reasserted itself with me way before it would have with either of my older brothers.

    I dunno, I'm losing my shit.

    I have to admit that I have a certain stick-togetherness with women even when I would not have done what they did. Especially against men. Because I come closer to walking a mile in her shoes, for the most part, than I do to walking in his, especially around certain contexts. Anger is one of them.

    I am sorry I snapped at Nate and Swine, because they Do The Right Thing, most of the time, as far as I can tell, which is all I can legitimately be accused of. But I think the wrong things all the time.

    I gotta go parcel out the Rockies tickets to the 7 male and one female managers.

    I have so much anger, so much of it at institutions which are impervious to my rage as they are to pigeon shit.

    I have to admit that R.C.'s flambee pleased me in part because we have all known those car puds, those people who have pretty faces and pretty cars and are inordinately pleased with both. As though there were not a million happy accidents involved in the achievement of either.

    And they usually have such hackneyed taste in cars, too.

    But I need to think about this because I have to go do the tickets.

    I will doubtless have more to say later.

By Swine on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 04:53 pm:

    how old are you?

By Margret on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 05:02 pm:


By Swine on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 05:26 pm:

    stop fist-fighting with your little brother, margret.

By Margret on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 05:48 pm:

    It was the only time since I was about 18 and he attacked me, to which my response was running away and hiding in my room with locked door.

    He had stolen $400 from my mom, was smoking crack (literally), and I had to cover the $400 because my mom was trying to buy a house and the last thing the credit people would have wanted would have been for her to start bouncing checks and stuff.

    And mom was trying to get him admitted to rehab., and she wanted me to come over with my then boyfriend and my housemate Eric to make sure he went along peaceably (he and my mom have gotten into it physically). And I made her call the cops and report the $ stolen because it wasn't his first or his 4th theft of cash and property from her. And I didn't even want to get into their screwed up codependent ugliness, I just wanted to do my duty by my mom and then go home. But he came out of the house with this LOOK on his face, the same smug-assed look my dad used to have on his face, that smug look that says "this is all so amusing, the way I can make you all dance to my tune" and I lost it.

    I haven't lost it since, but I don't regret it for two reasons:
    (1) My little brother, since he achieved gorilla sized chest and arms, has used his own uncontrolled (though perhaps not uncontrollable) anger and his size and his potential for violence to keep my behavior in line. Basically, I was non-violent and he wasn't and he scared me.
    (2) He got into it with my mom. He got physical with my mom. I am a total momma's girl. I'm pretty sure that when we lived 2,000 miles apart my mom lied to me and kept stuff from me to try to keep relations somewhat civil between my little brother and I. But when they moved to Albuquerque, I kicked his ass outta my house within 24 hours from his bullshit. Since I smacked up on him, he has mellowed towards me and towards everyone in my presence.

    But I do regret the shame and loss of control, if not the target.

By Swine on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 05:59 pm:

    damn. that's rough.

    my buddy's brother was a crackhead.
    his family ran out of options and eventually turned him into the authorities. they put his crackhead ass behind bars for a year. the experience actually had a positive affect; he got off the pipe and straightened out.

    but i guess results vary depending on who you are, where you are, and how easy it is to score crack behind the bars that incarcerate you.

    good luck with it.

By Margret on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 06:13 pm:

    He's back to chiba and beer only, oh....

    and he's addicted to the internet now.

    He cold turkeyed it when mom kicked him out. I wanted his ass behind bars, but she has always been too soft with him. It is because his life has had some incredibly sucky factors.

    But I have maintained since I was 18 that if she'd let us beat on him like he was a normal little brother and we normal older siblings, you know...not total cruelty but older sibling beat downs...then he would have had more respect for himself and other people.

    But I could be totally wrong.

    Anyway, when I visited a couple of weeks ago I could tell he wasn't smoking crack because mom still had her t.v.

    I suspect him of having pawned my P-Bass and amp, though, a year ago, when he moved back after straightening himself out in Connecticut. I suspect it was a spite thing, not a money thing. But I have no proof.

    All I know is they're missing and noone told me until July of last year. And I had to ask. And my mom went into rhapsodic detail about how bad my brother felt that someone had broken into the house. But, see, I had renter's. And that shit woulda been covered. If I'd known to file a police report. But, see, the last police report the police had about that house which involved my brother living in the same state was the report I made moms file about the $400.

    It's all too fucked up. That's why even though I love moms, I stay out of it. Because it's bad enough if he's fucking me over. But if she's helping him do it through blindness or through active covering of his ass, I can't stand to know.

By Swine on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 06:14 pm:

    oh yeah...

    "insanification" isn't really a word.

    although it sounds like maybe it should be...

By Margret on Monday, May 24, 1999 - 06:18 pm:

    If I used it and you understood it, then it was a word, am right?

    Maybe it didn't exist before, but I will be using it a lot from now on.

    There was a preexisting word which sort of fit the context, hystericization, but I didn't like it.

By R.C. on Tuesday, May 25, 1999 - 01:47 am:

    But if it had been you/or another female sibling/who had become a crackhead/yr Mom wd've called the cops the 1st time her shit came up missing. No doubt.

    A man can wallow in the gutter/get up/clean up his act/& move on. And then everyone points him out as an Example of Great Resolve in Overcoming Hardship.

    Let a woman fall into the gutter/even for a few months/& once she's cleaned up her act/damn near everyone that knows her will still be flapping their gums abt all the fucked-up shit she did when she was a crackhead/slut/alcoholic/
    junkie/gambling addict/whatever. It will follow her to the grave. Becuz Men run The Show. And they get to overlook history whenever it's convenient.

By J on Tuesday, May 25, 1999 - 02:41 am:

    You go girl.

By Margret on Tuesday, May 25, 1999 - 03:00 am:

    Well, actually, though I'm not the favorite (or at least not the obvious choice), I'm:
    The good child,
    The hard worker,
    The one who gets things done.
    Bro was born with testicular cancer. Lost a 'nad at aged 6 months. Has fucked with his self-image his whole life. But that wasn't enough.
    Chemo. at such a young age really fucked his body. He has shoulders and chest of adult medium sized man on hips and legs of 11 year old boy. He had full hip replacement at 25; he'd been walking around with bone broken off and ball jammed in socket with femur. Noticed one leg seemed to be shorter, but had been in such chronic pain his whole life that didn't realize andything was especially wrong, and walked around on it for a year.
    And his spine is beginning to curve because doesn't quite fit, that pelvis and those shoulders and all that. Musculature developed wierd.
    But doesn't mean he's entitled to shit, really. Give him sympathy, but not pity. But he thinks he's the only fucker to have ever suffered in this world. He also thinks that everything I have achieved has been handed to me, that I do not have to really work at anything, that I am somehow blessed. And I am. I am young and healthy. It's not like I don't know the million happy accidents that have enabled my life. But it's also not like I lounged around watching fucking Springer while my life happened. And it's not like there aren't a million billion people who haven't got it or had it worse than he has.
    It's the physical thing that gets my mom. That he was born in pain and hasn't been free of it one day since. She can't be hard with him. I understand, it's just that sometimes it sucks so bad that my mother has this equation in her head where his needs will always outweigh any other needs. And where I will carry on, because I do. It's why when my mom moved to Albuquerque, I moved to Denver, even though I'm a momma's girl.

By Agatha on Tuesday, May 25, 1999 - 03:03 am:

    what about the terms "slut" and "whore"? who gets called these names 95% of the time? fuck, i don't even want to get into this subject. i refuse.

By J on Tuesday, May 25, 1999 - 03:15 am:

    Margret,I get your drift,if I see who you are,

By Cyst on Tuesday, May 25, 1999 - 05:39 am:

    when I was a pretend reporter in seattle, I covered the police beat. every week for a year I spent a few hours at the north precinct, scanning through a huge stack of police reports (names blacked out).

    if you threw out all the bicycle and car stereo theft reports, I'd say that almost half of what remained were about crimes of passion. both male and female perpetrators, but more men than women.

    the difference was that the women usually fucked with the guy's stuff (keying his car, slashing tires), and the man usually fucked with the woman. physical threats about what he would do if she didn't drop the new guy. actual fights, serious harassment.

    this guy not only entered my room without my permission, went through my stuff, stole my stuff, but then he fucking called me up solely to antagonize me. "by the way, I read your diary." he was 24 or 25 at the time.

    and what did I end up doing to him? I pulled his hair and broke his window. (the next day I paid for a replacement to be installed.)

    I guess youth isn't a good excuse for having broken a window, but it's true that such mischief something I've grown out of. I wouldn't break into a guy's apartment, just like I wouldn't TP a neighbor's house again.

    now when I get mad, I just have incriminating written material sent anonymously from states I've never been to. clean, legal, elegant revenge.

By Margret on Tuesday, May 25, 1999 - 11:04 am:

    I was called slut from the 7th grade to about the 10th, but never by my mom. Think my dad told me once that fucking a 14 year old girl is easier than shooting fish in a barrell.

By R.C. on Tuesday, May 25, 1999 - 03:28 pm:

    Ahem... I hope we he wasn't speaking from experience.


    And I'm sorry for yr brother. But -- well/never mind. I'm just sorry he feels so ripped off by Life.

By J on Wednesday, May 26, 1999 - 12:50 pm:

    Either your dad was really funny,or he was a real trip,Margret.He was probably just trying to scare you,I remember when my dad told me about men and it scared me to death.

By Margret on Wednesday, May 26, 1999 - 12:56 pm:

    My dad was a sexist pig making some token effort to preserve my virginity. But I was able to use the line in a song some 10 years later, so perhaps the experience was worth it.

By heather on Wednesday, May 26, 1999 - 01:23 pm:

    my dad mostly said, "you make a better door than a window"

By J on Wednesday, May 26, 1999 - 02:48 pm:

    Can you please explain that Heather?My dad told me it,s better to be the dog than the tree,now I got that.Margret the line was worth it.

By heather on Wednesday, May 26, 1999 - 03:01 pm:

    my dad used to spend his time (he's not dead, he just seems to have finally expanded his horizons,) working, eating, and watching tv.

    if you stopped in front the tv while trying to talk to him, he wasn't very interested in what you were saying.

By Nate on Wednesday, May 26, 1999 - 03:03 pm:

    my dad said that a lot too.

    sometimes a door is better than a window.

    especially when you're blocking the tv.

By Cyst on Wednesday, May 26, 1999 - 03:25 pm:

    I don't want to start a new thread, but I do want to know what the american-english past participle of "bide" is. "bided" or "bade"? I only have a british-english dictionary here. thanks.

By Cyst on Wednesday, May 26, 1999 - 03:29 pm:

    oh, the american-version ms word spell check doesn't have a problem with bided, so that's probably what I should use.

By Rhiannon on Wednesday, May 26, 1999 - 06:30 pm:

    If I may return to the abusive women vs. men thread --

    my mother's mother abused her (my mom), my aunts/uncles, and my grandfather. Physically, verbally, emotionally. She was also crazy pretty much all around: my mom told me that one time she (Gran) got really angry and no one was paying attention to her, so she urinated on the kitchen floor. And my aunt often tells the story of the time Gran got so angry she punched through the kitchen window and refused to bandage her hand but purposefully bled all over the living room rug to make her kids sorry for getting her so angry. (My aunt always ends the story by saying she said, "see ya, lady," and walking out of the house -- but then my aunt was the rebellious one.)

    I found out last month that my mother had tried to kill herself when she was sixteen by swallowing pills. When my grandmother found my mother in the bathroom, she refused to let anyone call the doctor. So my grandfather calls the doctor, and when he shows up at the house, Gran causes this huge scene, at one point throwing boiling water at my grandfather because she's so mad that he "disobeyed" her. So the doctor has to waste time dealing with this psycho instead of properly attending to my mother. She would have let my mother die. I can't tell you how angry that makes ME.

    What's my point? Nobody ever told anybody about my grandmother. The doctor (who witnessed this whole mess) never did anything. My mom never told anyone until she was in her 40s. My grandmother died 6 years ago this summer, and if you talk to my grandfather, you'd come away thinking she was a saint. Only my mother and one of her brothers (she's got 4 bros and 2 sis) will admit that Gran was abusive. No one outside the family knew the reality. Why? Because it was a woman doing the beating.

    I think when a woman is the abuser, there's an element of shame involved that's not there with a man. Like, if my dad hit me, I'd be ashamed that he hit me, but there would be nothing on me -- it would be his fault entirely, one would assume. But when a woman is abusive, the kid is not only ashamed of the abuse but of the abuser, like they must have done something to drive a WOMAN to get so angry. You know, cuz women aren't NATURALLY violent. Whatever. My mother didn't do anything to deserve what she got.

    And it was bad for my grandfather, too. He came from a tough old Italian family -- think he could tell his folks about his marriage? My grandmother was so beautiful and well-mannered -- her? Abusive? What are you talking about?

    Look at all the women's shelters. Where do battered men go? Do they take the kids and split, too? Do people listen to them and believe them as readily as they do women?

    I can't speak for all women, of course, but certain women are PERFECTLY capable of the same levels of violence as certain men are.

By Freud on Wednesday, May 26, 1999 - 09:02 pm:

    Um, I think it's a safe guess that your grandmother was more than just an abusive person, she was mentally ill.

By J on Thursday, May 27, 1999 - 02:57 am:

    Boy, Rhiannon I think we could be related.Are you/or your parents from the south?Or are you Irish?

By Nate on Thursday, May 27, 1999 - 12:52 pm:

    police departments report that the majority of domestic violence calls involve women perps.

    if you assume that many men will not call the cops if they are getting a beat down from their lady friend, it would seem that the gross majority of domestic violence is perp'd by women.

By J on Thursday, May 27, 1999 - 02:26 pm:

    Your grandfather was a saint,but it sounds more like your grandmother was a drama-queen.She sounds like she hurt herself more than anyone else physically.I must say that would traummatize any one having to put up with that bullshit.Your grandfather should have put her away,it,s a wonder he didn,t kill her.But I still think overall men do the most killing.

By Rhiannon on Thursday, May 27, 1999 - 04:47 pm:

    I'm Irish/Italian/German, and I'm not from the South. My mother's from Nebraska and Las Vegas (the above incident happened in Las Vegas). LV is a strange place for anybody to grow up in. It's no wonder Stephen King chose to put Hell there in "The Stand."

    That whole side of the family's crazy. (How do you think I got interested in studying psychology?) But my mother's all right. She's never hit any of us kids, either, so all that stuff about violence-begetting-violence isn't carved in stone. She knew better than to treat anyone like she had been treated.

    My grandfather is a good man. I'm sorry he's so self-deluded that he fails to acknowledge the truth even now.

    And Nate, where did you read those statistics?

By Nate on Thursday, May 27, 1999 - 05:41 pm:

    they were presented to me by a friend who was going for his criminal justice degree, and then again in intro to women's studies.

    i don't have a source to give you, though. i'll see if i can figure it out.

By R.C. on Thursday, June 3, 1999 - 02:09 pm:

    Yes, Nate. We need documentation on that one.

    I've known some women who have come to blows w/their man. But never enuf to harm him. I also know of 1 woman (actually/she's the ex- wife of the guy who shuttled me back & forth from LI to Bklyn. while I was in NY) who stabbed her husband for cheating on him (this was almost 15 yrs. ago.) BUT she did warn him 1st that if the shit didn't stop/she was gonna stab his ass. And he kept on fucking around on her. And she caught him. So she stabbed him in his sleep. Did less than a year in jail for it. And he's okay now -- no major organs were pierced. (And the guy is still a big whoe.)

    Was she wrong? Sure. But she did warn his ass ahead of time...

    I have never in my life known a woman who beat or physically abused her man to the point where injury occurred. Not to say it doesn't happen. But it's RARE. Sometimes/women start the shit by slapping a guy during an argument /etc. But to my mind/any man who doesn't have the sense to leave the house when his woman is bugging is a fool.

    Contrarily/when a woman is w/an abusive man/he usually gets even more crazy when she tries to leave. Most domestic violence fatalities occur when the man catches the woman leaving the house/or shortly after she leaves/if he's able to track her down.

    And if she bugs on a regular basis/he shd move the fuck out. Nobody has the right to wail on you.

By Swine on Thursday, June 3, 1999 - 02:24 pm:

    you ever stab anybody?

By Bagpuss on Thursday, June 3, 1999 - 03:06 pm:

    I stabbed someone. It was sort of an accident.

    I look real hard if I don't mention the accident bit though.

By Nate on Thursday, June 3, 1999 - 03:13 pm:

    i stabbed a chick once. cut her good with a razor.

By Swine on Thursday, June 3, 1999 - 03:22 pm:

    bet she never cheated on your ass again after that.

    ya gotta give them women-folk good learnin'.

By R.C. on Thursday, June 3, 1999 - 04:07 pm:

    I have never stabbed anyone. When men cheat on me/I leave 'em. A quiet & classy exit/sans drama. (But it took me a long time to learn that particular trick.) Generally/I don't even bother to explain why/if they're in the room when I find out. If not/they may get a phone call:


    "You fucked up. I told you from jump/if I ever caught you cheating/you might as well keep right on walking. We've history & I'm outta here. If you're smart/you won't call me again."


    Which always elicits several tortured phone calls /generally riddled w/lies abt "she's my cousin/ just a friend/nothing to me/it wasn't what you think"... blah, blah blah. Which make for amusing messages on my answering machine.

    Eventually/once they realized I wasn't kidding/ they gave up.

    Except for W(the guy I saw while I was in NY for the wedding). In the 4 yrs. since I'd seen him/he has called my NY voicemail # at least once every month or so/just to say hi. And he always leaves me his digits. "Hit me on my hip if you wanna talk." But I never call him back.


    Becuz he has 15 different phone #'s!

    Two beepers. A voicemail #. An 800 # beeper w/voicemail. A cell phone. All of which he leaves on my voicemail.

    Everything but a home phone# where I can reach him.

    So you know what that's abt.....

    But I must say that if I had a husband (vs. a boyfriend) & caught him cheating on me/I might stab his ass a little (but not fatally). Esp. if I'd warned him beforehand.

    Face it fellas -- there are just some women you shdn't hook up w/if you don't intend to be faithful to them. And most of us WILL do you the courtesy of warning you beforehand.

By Swine on Thursday, June 3, 1999 - 06:06 pm:

    got another wedding invitation in the mail this week.
    never fails to blow me away that so many of my guy friends have willingly entered into matrimony over the past 2 years.

    i'd rather ride all the way to chile in a greyhound bus packed with screaming old cantonese women with turrets syndrome than get married to anybody.

    *with* my nuts in a vice.

    but that's pretty much the way i envision marriage anyway, so what the hell...

    the latest sucka, J, is a prettyboy. i've seen women stab eachother in the back and dog eachother out just to get a piece of his MBA-wielding photogenic ass. so much for solidarity.
    i've known him since my freshman year of high school. in all that time i've never known him to be faithful to any woman he's been in a relationship with. but who can blame him? if i had that quality and quantity of women throwing themselves at me all these years, i probably would've cheated much more than i have in the past.
    much, much more.

    but that's neither here nor there.
    J *knows* he can't be "faithful".
    hell, he has absolutely zero experience in monogamy.

    and now he's about to get married to a hot-blooded filipino woman.

    that boy is *definitely* gonna get stabbed.

By Frankie on Thursday, June 3, 1999 - 06:45 pm:

    "Evertime I hear that march from Lohengrin,
    I am always on the outside looking in.
    Maybe that is why I see the funny side
    When I see another brother take a bride.
    Weddings make a lot of people sad,
    But if you're not the groom, it's not so bad..."

    - "Makin' Whoopee!"


By J on Thursday, June 3, 1999 - 09:03 pm:

    No Swine,she will just cut off his penis.I have never stabbed anyone,but I often dream about me and a certain asshole hooking up and I remove his member with piano wire.But thats just me.

By R.C. on Friday, June 4, 1999 - 01:07 am:

    WHY do men find it so peculiar that women (esp. WIVES -- duh!) expect fidelity from them?

    What fucking planet are y'all from?

    EVERY TIME a woman lays down w/a man/she faces the risk of getting up pregnant. Becuz no b.c. is 100% effective. And most Sisters aren't abt having an abortion. Esp. sister's from Catholic or traditional cultures. It takes time & resources to support & raise a child. If she thinks she's going to have to share those resources w/every misc. Jane w/n a 20 mi. radius/becuz he's been spreading yr seed hither & yon/why shdn't she be pissed off? Put yrsleves in her place...

    Women know that a man takes care of the things he loves. Whether it's his ride or his biceps or his jump shot. This is evidenced by all the guys you see w/lawns up to their knees/or laundry bags all over their crib/who are out washing their cars/or at the gym/or off shopping for new audio equipment/every Sat. morning. While their children sit in front of cartoons on the living rm. t.v. & their wives or girlfriends are left to deal w/those children & all their needs.

    A man takes care of the things that he loves. And what shd he love more than his woman? Esp. if she is the mother of his children?

    But if he's got 2 or 3 children by 2 or 3 differnet mothers/it's obvious he doesn't really love any of them. Or their mothers. Becuz love is a rare thing in this world. It doesn't happen w/every Jane & Joan or Tom & Harry that comes along. Sex might happen often. And sex leads often to children. But Love is a horse of a diffrerent feather.

    Now/if you told her straight up -- while everyone still had their clothes on -- that you were all abt being a playa & had no intentions of making a commitment to being faithful to one woman /then she knew what she was getting into from the start. So shame on HER. But most men are not that explicit. They will not look a woman in the eye & tell her they have no intentions of being faithful to her/for fear of missing out on the sex she has to offer. So whose fault is it if she's royally pissed when she finds out she's not the only female sharing sheets w/you?

    Do you guys think you're doing HER some kind of favor by fucking her when you feel like it/then moving on to someone else whenever the spirit moves you? That shit is worse than immoral -- it's insane. It creates fractured families at worst/&
    emotionally-damaged women at the very least.

    THAT is why I am so particular abt the current sexual entanglements of any man I date. But I'm 38 & have been thru all the bullshit/& have no use for it anymore. Most younger women aren't as intent on searching out the particulars of their potential bed mate's recent sexual exploits before they get btwn the sheets w/him. Becuz they aren't necessarily leaning towards marriage at that point in their lives. Or they're just careless chickenheads who don't use condoms & T.C.B. after the 1st few fucks. But Remember: A good fuck lasts a few hrs. Child support lasts 18 yrs.
    And Fatherhood lasts a lifetime.

    MEN OF SORABJI -- If you listen to nothing else I've ever said at this place/listen to this: Save Yrselves The Hassle. Be honest & upfront abt where you are in terms of yr sex life. Make It Plain to the woman you're pursuing/or who is pursuing you/ that you have no intention of committing to one woman at this point in yr life. It will save you a lot of broken telephones & torched cars & major drama & monthly payments. It may even save you a trip to the E.R.

    And if admitting out loud that you wanna be a fuck-around kinda guy makes you feel like a dog/then reconsider yr position. Maybe it's time for you to grow up & face the facts abt what sex means to the Opposite Sex.

    But don't take anyone to bed until you're clear on what yr intentions are. Becuz every woman you sleep w/is probably somebody's sister. At the very least/she's somebody's daughter. You yrself might be a father to a daughter someday. And you wdn't want any man using yr sister or daughter as a sex toy the way some of you have used so many females in yr lives. Becuz you talked shit abt 'love' or being 'all abt' someone /but weren't abt making the Committment that goes along w/Love. With or without the wedding bells.

    Then again/if you're straight up w/her (as I suspect some of you are) & she's still game/then go for it. And don't put up w/any guilt trips & recrimations down the road/when the next Miss It comes along. Part of being a grown-up is knowing how to lie in the bed you made w/out the person you planned to share it with.

By Swine on Friday, June 4, 1999 - 03:15 am:

    i don't get how you can be 38 and still try to come off like it's only men who sleep around.

By Cyst on Friday, June 4, 1999 - 06:27 am:

    I'm all even with incidents of cheating and been cheated on. and have lost all interest in that.

    you have to tell me first and I will tell you first, and then we will end it, and, no, you won't be able to call me, and I sure as hell won't call you.

    it works much better this way. hard feelings, yeah, but not too bad. not like the other, spit-in-your-face way.

By J on Friday, June 4, 1999 - 10:12 am:

    It didn,t sound like R.C. was saying anything like women don,t sleep around,she just knows how men operate.She jst wants some truth,and I don,t think thats too much to ask.

By Margret on Friday, June 4, 1999 - 10:18 am:

    I make no assumptions about someone I'm seeing until the time comes for "the talk." You know, the "is this a relationship" talk. If the talk doesn't happen on its own, I force it. Because I need to know what the parameters are. I don't like shagging someone who's shagging someone else, and I'm not too prone to needing shagging from more than one person (I actually have a pretty lethargic sex drive, sorry folks), but I think it's important to know before what Elvis calls "sneaky feelings" get a toehold -- so before I actually do it more than once (once I'm willing to write off as an occasional relief of the hormone militia..once, btw, is however many times it actually happens in the first flush of craziness). And I'm up front about things. I say, if it is going to be a monogamous thing, don't cheat on my ass. Just tell me you want someone else, and we can break up. I will do the same for you. It's common courtesy.

By R.C. on Friday, June 4, 1999 - 07:56 pm:

    Swine/I was talking abt Men. If you wanna discuss women/the same rules wd apply in my book. Men have hearts as well as dicks. And when they get them broken/it hurts just as much.

    But in my experience/I've known WAY more women who were monogamous than men.

By Accustat on Friday, June 4, 1999 - 08:26 pm:

    RC you should see life in Los Angeles, women here dig for gold, they take the richest men their looks will buy, there is a reason we have the highest divorce rate per capita in SoCal. Being the generalization that is, yes men and women sleep around, men have hearts and so do women. we all hurt from it, it's a bad thing, AGREED. Fortunately I am very happily married so the dating thing is long gone...however it seems you have issues,baggage of which I am not critical of, it's just tends to jade your view, thats why you wrote 5-6 paragraphs on the subject.......i do agree honesty should be the bottom line, many women like to get laid and fool around with little or no emotional attachment and frankly, free responsible sex is not a bad thing, but if the intentions aren't laid out, like Marge said, then yes we usually get screwed (no pun intended) in the end. However, that is too idealistic, people's hearts, infactuations,mental illnesses,hormones and whatever else you want to throw in cause us to screw up all the time, hence The Jerry Springer Show

By Swine on Friday, June 4, 1999 - 09:34 pm:

    i guess NYC and LA have something in common after all.

By J on Saturday, June 5, 1999 - 12:04 pm:

    More like the Judge Judy Show.I know golddiggers,my friend Gina is one.She is a airline hostesst for A.W.,she,s hispanic,but says she,s Italian.She finally hit pay-o-la and married some jackass .Now she can,t smoke pot,she has two kids at 40,he calls all the shots,she,s not happy.Well that,s what happens when you live a lie.

By R.C. on Saturday, June 5, 1999 - 07:37 pm:


    Maybe I'm just a dinosuar. But I thought the Sexual Revolution thing in the 60's & the Women's Lib movement in the 70's were supposed to have made it easier for men & women to be honest w/each other abt sex. So that casual sex doesn't have to lead to being debased or getting yr feelings hurt. Yet there's still so much bullshit being served up. From both sides.

    (And we all have issues of some sort. People who use other people for sex/or $$/is one of my biggies. As you can see.)

    My biggest concern is the deterioration of relationships w/n my tribe. If Brothers & Sisters don't get our shit together (excluding Swine/of course/who is The Ultimate Man for the New Milennuim) & start treating each other w/respect & working w/each other -- rather than trying to get over on each other -- I'm genuinely afraid that Blackfolks will become extinct in this country in the next century.

By R.C. on Saturday, June 5, 1999 - 07:43 pm:

    But wait -- Cali is a Community Property state, yes? Wdn't the threat of having to give up half his shit in a divorce settlement make even a rich man a lot more choosy abt who he marries (i.e. he'd be a fool to let his dick make the decision for him)?

    Or do the rich guys all get prenups? Then why wd Miss Flygirl go for that/when she knows she cd end up divorced & poor after having tasted the good life? Plus older & therefore less marketable for the time she put in?

    Then again/L.A. is like another planet. Normal logic does not apply.

By Swine on Saturday, June 5, 1999 - 09:03 pm:

    " The Ultimate Man for the New Millenium"
    you've gotta be kidding me.

    is this some new kind of socially-based affirmative action for beer-guzzling slobs?

By Sheila on Saturday, June 5, 1999 - 09:13 pm:

    it's the latest thing. if you lived on the west coast, you would already know that.

By Swine on Saturday, June 5, 1999 - 09:43 pm:

    if i still lived on the west coast, i'd be up on a tower going Johnny AK by now.

    and now that i think about it, the "Ultimate Man for the New Millennium" title can go to my 32 year old brother. he's the polylingual, gadget-ridden, globe-trotting goldenchild who works to uphold the human rights of third world denizens.

    he's a bit of a beer-guzzling slob, too...
    but a much higher class of beer-guzzling slob.

By Swine on Saturday, June 5, 1999 - 09:57 pm:

    here's an e-mail he sent us the other day with the link to the reuter's news report at the end. i'm really proud of him. he's the man.

    "Attached is a MS Explorer web page which has a Reuters story of a killing by the Haitian National Police. I was the lead observer in the investigation and was the one who collected most of the information in the story. Seems that the Chief of the Mission provided the reporter with a copy of my report. Really nasty business."

    reuter's report

By Swine on Saturday, June 5, 1999 - 10:01 pm:

By Swine on Saturday, June 5, 1999 - 10:04 pm:

    not that any of that has anything to do with broken hearts...
    but fuck it.
    broken hearts are a dime a dozen.

    if that.

By J on Sunday, June 6, 1999 - 06:42 am:

    So my boken heart is not even worth a pennny?

By J on Sunday, June 6, 1999 - 06:53 am:

    I know I spelled that wrong.Swine,did you ever hear about Ann Rule?

By Cyst on Sunday, June 6, 1999 - 09:41 am:

    god. ok. so I'm theoretically ok with gold-digging slavic women here and the western men who exploit them. "gold-digging" is sort of different outside america and europe, where women are trying to live in a radioactive city on $40 a month or whatever.

    but now I'm finding it very ugly and sad when I am confronted with it personally.

    the circumstances are a little hard to explain, but I was looking for a vanity fair magazine that had an article my absent rooommate/friend said I should read, and I found some web page printouts of his.

    he's in his 30s. he's no great looker himself, but he is only attracted to very young and beautiful women. he doesn't care much about their personalities and doesn't mind if he can't hold a real conversation with them, for language or education reasons. he doesn't like if they're vulgarly gold-digging, to the point where they're so princessy they can't walk two blocks and have to hail a cab. but he's not kidding himself about why slavic women might be attracted to him.

    so these papers were printouts from mail-order bride web sites. I usually like to look at these sites, read the funny descriptrions these women write about themselves, see what sort of photos they think men would find attractive (ridiculous, pouty, sluttily dressed ones).

    anyway. my friend had always laughed at men who pay for these services, though one time he tellingly said, "I sort of understand the mentality."

    so I assumed that these papers were for a story he was working on about cross-cultural "introduction services." so I leafed through them. I really honest-to-god at first did not think I was going through personal papers. they had been printed out at work; the reverse sides were scrap paper I recognized.

    then I noticed that the girls were all pretty (which I've found is not the case on the sites I've seen) and that they were almost all 18-21 (though one site said half its women were in their 30s).

    then I found the visa receipts. he spent hundreds of dollars on addresses. he paid someone to take pictures of him, as all these sites said that most women don't respond to letters without photos.

    then I came to his letter. I know, this is all very wrong of me, but the whole process was so fascinating. fuck. I'm going to have to tell him that I found the stuff. fuck. I am a rotten person. but anyway.

    he lied to these women, who pretty much across-the-board said they were looking for marriage- and family-oriented men. I mean, duh, these women don't want to just be whores for relatively rich westerners who can't get pretty women in their own countries. he said he wanted to settle down and raise a family.

    from what he's told me, which likely seems nearer the truth, is that he wants to fuck the youngest and most beautiful slavic women he can find. he says he doesn't believe in lasting love, and that he just wants a string of pretty girls to fuck one by one - when he gets sick of one, move on to the next.

    anyway. I know how the world works, and this is it. but the part that made me really sad was when I came to a printout of one girl who was a little but chubby, and she was very cute, she was posing for the camera in her bra and panties. and that was the one photo that my friend had put a big X through. almost as if he thought someone would actually see these papers and would not want them to think that his pale bald-but-hairy self would be interested in a chubby girl.

    love is a myth love is a myth love is a myth and what the hell do I care anyway

By Bagpuss on Sunday, June 6, 1999 - 11:15 am:

    "love is a myth love is a myth love is a myth and what the hell do I care anyway"

    You answered your own question.

By Cyst on Sunday, June 6, 1999 - 11:40 am:

    oh well. at least he's ashamed of himself, or else he would have had me take the photos. or else he would have said that he's one of those guys who pays for the slavic chicks on the web in any of the dozens of times we've talked about it. it's good for hypocrites (I'm not conventionally attractive but my dates must be, and any of these poor girls who isn't thin is going to get a big X through her) to feel they need to hide the way they feel.

    what am I saying? I sound jealous, but I'm not. he has chased after me and I said no. and I know that even in my advanced age, he still finds me attractive.

    is there anything wrong with rich western guys buying young consenting desperate slavic girls? I can find no rational argument against it, but it still makes me sick.

By R.C. on Sunday, June 6, 1999 - 04:40 pm:

    The fact that it makes you sick is how you know it's wrong.

    Again -- think if how you'd feel if one of those Slavic girls was yr little sister...

    It's tantamount to prostitution/but w/out the upfront honesty most pros get from their johns. This guy is lying to those women/claiming he's shopping for a wife/when all he really wants is cute disposable pussy. Which he can certainly get in America. But he's willing to spend big $$ to bring yng women halfway across the world/ becuz he doesn't want to face going out & getting an American Rent-a-Girl. Who wd serve the same purpose/but NOT be disposable. She'd be the one getting dressed & going home in the morning. With his cash in her pocket. Wwhile he lies in bed/watching her beautiful ass walk away & feeling like the Loser he is.

    If a man wants to pay an adult female for sex/I think that's demeaning for both parties/but I don't have a problem w/women choosing to sell their bodies. So long as they use condoms.

    But what this guy's trying to do w/these Slavic chicks is basic fraud. Once he's done w/one what's he gonna do -- toss her out on the street? Aren't there immigration laws that obgligate Americans to support the foreigners they bring into this country? I don't see how he cd just screw them & dump them afterwards. But I'm sure it happens every day.

    Hopefully/the chicks in those ads are just as skeezy as he is. I pray that the little digital hottie he orders up will get off the plane & turn out to be a 50-yr-old w/a big hairy mole no front teeth! And he'll be stuck w/her for the rest of her life.

By Bagpuss on Sunday, June 6, 1999 - 06:08 pm:

    But what if she's "50-yr-old w/a big hairy mole no front teeth" but with a nice personality and a 200 IQ?

By Swine on Sunday, June 6, 1999 - 06:28 pm:

    what do you think.

By Bagpuss on Sunday, June 6, 1999 - 06:59 pm:

    I don't, it hurts my head

By Markus on Sunday, June 6, 1999 - 09:44 pm:

    Cyst, and therefore her roommate, live in Kiev. So he's not importing anyone anywhere.

By R.C. on Sunday, June 6, 1999 - 10:43 pm:

    Even worse, then! You mean to tell me he can't find a decent, interesting woman in Kiev
    w/out resorting to Mail Order brides?

    [But thaks for the 411, Markus. I try to keep track of everyone's whereabts. But w/Cyst/I only ever remember that she's in one of those Eastern bloc countries/but not a presently war-torn one.

    And that Slacker lives in Canada & is snowed under for 8 mos. out of the year.]

By Cyst on Monday, June 7, 1999 - 05:16 am:

    my friend (who is a roommate of convenience -- we split the rent but have only spent one day in the apartment together, as we're both traveling extensively this summer) bought the addresses of chicks all over ukraine and western russia. he's going to travel a lot through these areas this summer, and I guess he wants some ass already lined up in each city.

    but these girls know what they're getting themselves into. they can't expect true love through a photo exchange. my friend isn't going to force any of them to have sex with him.

    I don't like disapproving of things unless I can give a rational explanation as to why they are wrong. this is not wrong. but it sucks.

By Antigone on Monday, June 7, 1999 - 07:59 pm:

    R.C. wrote:
    > If a man wants to pay an adult female for sex/I
    > think that's demeaning for both parties/but I
    > don't have a problem w/women choosing to sell
    > their bodies. So long as they use condoms.

    So, a man buying is demeaning, but a woman selling is not? How can a woman sell without having someone to buy? So, a woman is demeaned if a man buys what she's offering, but isn't if there are no takers? Would she even need the condom, then? :-)

By R.C. on Monday, June 7, 1999 - 11:51 pm:

    IMHO/it's demeaning for anyone to reduce sex to a financial transaction. When you wanna get laid & you're single & you don't have a Special Someone available/why can't you get a friendly fuck from a chum? Someone you know & trust who cares abt you as a human being? S'better than picking up/or being picked up by/some stranger who might turn out to be Mr. Goodbar. Or a bunny-boiling psycho. Or just a lousy lay.

    And I think EVERYONE who isn't trying to make a baby shd be using condoms.

By Gee on Tuesday, June 8, 1999 - 04:31 am:

    I wonder if I would be chasing after hot little men if I were a millionare.

By Cyst on Tuesday, June 8, 1999 - 12:19 pm:

    r.c. asked:

    "You mean to tell me he can't find a decent, interesting woman in Kiev w/out resorting to Mail Order brides?"

    thank god, I got the confession email over with and he mailed me back. part of his explanation (which I did not ask for):

    basically, the way i see it is most of these girls are just placing a picture personal. they see an ad that says meet western men, and they send in a photo and a picture. they can just sit at home and wait for letters and choose who to invite to fly over. so why not try it? most of the men that respond, however, are big losers. so i cherry pick from the bunch, and if they want a house and a family in the states tomorrow, they don't respond.

    [ed. note: in the "family-minded" part of his letter, he did mention he wasn't going to settle down "right away."]

    yeah i go for the young and pretty ones. i'm just that way. i don't feel guilty about it.

    actually, though, i have to say it's on the whole not better than meeting girls randomly on the street. i've met about a dozen girls through ads, and none of them ever really turned me on.

By Cyst on Tuesday, June 8, 1999 - 12:23 pm:

    I only hope that he'll talk to me about how these dates went, because I am very curious.

    in another thread, gee or someone asked the cynics if they didn't wish they still believed in pure true romantic everlasting love. and the more I think about it, the happier I am that I'm not delusional about such things. when you know how the world really is, it is easier to act accordingly.

By Cyst on Tuesday, June 8, 1999 - 12:32 pm:


    r.c. asked:

    "You mean to tell me he can't find a decent, interesting woman in Kiev w/out resorting to Mail Order brides?"

    yeah, but he doesn't care for decent and interesting. he wants patently fuckable.

By WAFFLEBOY on Tuesday, June 8, 1999 - 02:03 pm:


By Swine on Tuesday, June 8, 1999 - 02:28 pm:

    hey, man.

    kill the caps.

By Waffleboy on Tuesday, June 8, 1999 - 02:36 pm:

    sorry its my email login/pass are in caps, so I usually jump here right after checking emaail, didn't think it was a big deal

By J on Tuesday, June 8, 1999 - 02:56 pm:

    It,s not.I think it means your shouting though.

By Waffleboy on Tuesday, June 8, 1999 - 03:27 pm:

    living in LA you come across anything and everything


    Taco Waffles

    1 Egg
    2 tb Cornmeal
    3/4 c Milk
    2 ts Baking powder
    1/4 c Vegetable oil
    2 ts Sugar
    1 c All-purpose flour
    1/4 ts Salt

    1 lb Ground of the fatest beef
    1 pk Dry Taco Seasoning mix/ add Cayenne

    1 c Shredded Cheddar cheese
    1/2 c Sour cream
    2 c Shredded lettuce Sliced ripe olives
    1 md (about 1 c) chopped tomato

    Waffles: Preheat waffle maker.Place all ingredients into Osterizer- blender
    container.Cover;process at a medium speed until dry ingredients are moistened.Do not over blend.Pour 1/2 cup batter over center of grids.Close waffle maker.Bake until golden,about 2 minutes.Yield:4 waffles.

    Meat Sauce: Prepare mix according to package directions.Place 1/4 cup sauce on each waffle.Add toppings.

    Toppings: On each waffle,top meat sauce with 2 tbsp. cheese,1/4 cup lettuce and 2 tbsp. tomato.Garnish with 1 tbsp. sour cream and olives.
    Serve immediately.

By Big Kevin on Tuesday, June 8, 1999 - 04:19 pm:

    While I know this probably doesn't belong under this heading.....

    There is only a very, very small area of populated Canada that is "under snow 8mos a year", so my question is where does Slacker live? Inuvik??????

    Oh. on a side note Toronto (Ontario, Canada) is 29c right now, while LA is only 22c. (thats celcius btw).

    Maybe I should put this under the Iam Canadian thread, eh?

By Nate on Tuesday, June 8, 1999 - 05:30 pm:

    at least you're not australian.

By Waffleboy on Tuesday, June 8, 1999 - 05:47 pm:

    i am cold and i am frightened

By Jane on Tuesday, June 8, 1999 - 08:29 pm:

    You cold,you frightend?Me got the boot,Tarzan give me the slip,me no got nobody,me scared.Big jungle,bad jungle,me too stupid to know what to do.CHEETAH,CHEETA,MOMMY!!!!!

By Bwana on Tuesday, June 8, 1999 - 10:39 pm:

    Shut all yer pieholes.

    I got a 30 06.

    Big bang, baby!

By BWANA on Tuesday, June 8, 1999 - 11:38 pm:

    Shut your fucking pinhole, stop using my name, get me a drink, and bend the fuck over, you worthless imposter!

By Bwana on Tuesday, June 8, 1999 - 11:44 pm:

    As IF, bitch.

    Don't make me filet your ass and have my entourage fry you up with some plantains and termite butter.

    Great White fucking Hunter has spoken.

By Markus on Wednesday, June 9, 1999 - 12:10 am:

    Straight from the wilds of NYC.

By Jim aka PajamaBoy on Wednesday, June 9, 1999 - 12:44 am:

    Or from Landmark, VA, eh Markus?

By Cyst on Wednesday, June 9, 1999 - 05:01 am:

    thank god. it's not the "bwana" I know from early '90s seattle who went out with my friend lisa and whom I last saw at microsoft night at pacific science center when he was running the laser show and I was trying out some new-to-me combination of hallucinogens and thinking what a waste of all that nice food bill bought that I didn't feel like eating.

By By MM on Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 12:45 pm:

    There was once were i was in love with a boy, until he started to play games with my heart. like we would be together and then he would break up with me for nothing, and then the net day he will call me and say "baby i love you, i just messed up im sorry. i love u." but my stupid ass would always get back with him.

By Dodi on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 01:28 am:

    "Been there, done that!"

By Dodi on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 01:28 am:

    "Been there, done that!"

By Dodi on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 01:29 am:

    OOOPS!! I think once was enough. :)

By dave. on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 01:40 am:

    aaaahhhhh hahahahhhhh!

    killing me

By dave. on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 01:42 am:

    i love tiny font.

By moonit on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 02:38 am:

    If you hadn't of pointed it out, we never would of guessed.

By dave. on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 03:12 am:


By Dodi on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 01:11 pm:

    Oh well..... :0)

By V.v. on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 06:43 pm:

    Dave,admit it,you just want to show the whole world your "tiny font"

By Dodi on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 07:04 pm:

    It is pretty small!

By V.v. on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 08:44 pm:


By moonit on Friday, May 21, 2004 - 02:38 am:

    I need some tweezers and a microscope. Or I could just put my glasses back on.

By Dodi on Friday, May 21, 2004 - 02:44 pm:

    It's okay, there's still hope for you.


The Stalking Post: General goddam chit-chat Every 3 seconds: Sex . Can men and women just be friends? . Dreamland . Insomnia . Are you stoned? . What are you eating? I need advice: Can you help? . Reasons to be cheerful . Days and nights . Words . Are there any news? Wishful thinking: Have you ever... . I wish you were... . Why I oughta... Is it art?: This question seems to come up quite often around here. Weeds: Things that, if erased from our cultural memory forever, would be no great loss Surfwatch: Where did you go on the 'net today? What are you listening to?: Worst music you've ever heard . What song or tune is going through your head right now? . Obscure composers . Obscure Jazz, 1890-1950 . Whatever, whenever General Questions: Do you have any regrets? . Who are you? . Where are you? . What are you doing here? . What have you done? . Why did you do it? . What have you failed to do? . What are you wearing? . What do you want? . How do you do? . What do you want to do today? . Are you stupid? Specific Questions: What is the cruelest thing you ever did? . Have you ever been lonely? . Have you ever gone hungry? . Are you pissed off? . When is the last time you had sex? . What does it look like where you are? . What are you afraid of? . Do you love me? . What is your definition of Heaven? . What is your definition of Hell? Movies: Last movie you saw . Worst movie you ever saw . Best movie you ever saw Reading: Best book you've ever read . Worst book you've ever read . Last book you read Drunken ramblings: uiphgy8 hxbjf.bklf ghw789- bncgjkvhnqwb=8[ . Payphones: Payphone Project BBS

sorabji.com . torturechamber . px.sorabji.com . receipts . contact