can two gay men just be friends? Can men and women just be friends?: can two gay men just be friends?

By sarah on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 01:20 pm:

    now i'm starting to think glen and kelly each have a secret crush on each other.

    i told the whole story to my lesbian hair dresser yesterday and that was her conclusion.

By eri on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 01:50 pm:

    I don't know what to tell you on that one. I mean, I have had gay man friends, but don't know what to think on that. All I can say is that in my experience, all of my gay friends looked at all other guys and were not interested in being "just friends" with other guys unless they were unattractive to them. But I could be wrong, with my limited knowledge, that's just what I have seen.

By sarah on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 02:36 pm:

    i know glen is, technically, bisexual. and now i think kelly is bisexual too. it didn't occur to me until my hair dresser mentioned it, but intuitively it seems spot on. plus, they're both scorpios, and we all know scorpio men all are latent fags. ;) when i questioned glen on his sexuality, the same evening i questioned him about kelly, he accused me of being infatuated with kelly (true) and also admitted that kelly has a very effeminate nature and that he thinks kelly is a very attractive man.

    even though it's purely speculation, i'm not opposed to them being attracted to each other. i'm attracted to both of them as well. glen seems to be choosing heterosexuality, or maybe he'll perpetually be on the fence. i don't know. maybe he doesn't know either.

    let's say glen decides to pursue a monogamous relationship with me. i don't expect that he'll never be attracted to anyone else for as long as we live, man or woman. same goes for me. it would just be a shame if they both really are in love with each other but can't admit it, and i'm caught in the middle, or worse, being used to make kelly jealous or something.

    i don't really think glen is like that though. glen appears to be totally blissed out on me and dating me and all that.

    i like glen a lot. aside from money issues (he took a lower-paying job at his company by choice because the higher-paying job was, awwwww poor baby, stressing him out, but he won't look for another better paying job elsewhere, because he is an aspiring politian, but won't have any more kids until he can earn a living as a politian, which is at least 2 years away... etc...) i can actually envision a pretty neat future with him. but it seems that it's not a good idea to be dating someone whose sexuality you question.

    i feel cursed. all i ever wanted when i moved to texas in the first place was to be in love, get married, settle down, and make a few dozen babies. i don't want intense, dramatic relationships, and yet over and over again the men i date and affairs i have seem to turn into perfect fodder for some bizarre day-time television series.

By BIGKev on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 02:36 pm:

    why not?

    can a straight man, and woman just be friends... oh wait thats a different thread....

    Of course they can, maybe not these two but it deffinitly could happen.

By kazoo on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 03:22 pm:

    The last encounter I had with a bisexual man was sleeping with a guy who was married and otherwise still closeted. The fun never ends, does it?

    "but it seems that it's not a good idea to be dating someone whose sexuality you question."

    Are you really questioning his sexuality? Because it seems as though you have that one down. I don't know what to tell you otherwise. Someday though, you, my bestfriend Shannon, and I should get together and write that daytime series.

By sarah on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 04:52 pm:

    kazoo, do you think one bisexual woman and one bisexual man (who both are wannabe-heteros) can have a successful, long-term relationship? marriage and babies and the whole traditional speil?

By eri on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 05:15 pm:

    I realize the question wasn't aimed at me, but why not? Why can't you have the whole successful long term relationship, and whatever you want from it?

By sarah on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 05:27 pm:

    well, in a world of infinite possibilities, the answer is yes.

    but why not? i guess it's an issue of probability, rather than possibility.

    maybe the question is, how *probable* is it that one bisexual woman and one bisexual man (who both are wannabe-heteros) can have a successful, long-term relationship? marriage and babies and the whole traditional speil?

    shit, i have no idea why i'm analyzing it so much. it's not like i really think i'm going to get married to glen! ha! i think i'm just bored. or maybe intrigued by the mystery of it all. i feel like i'm watching a stage play.

    wouldn't it be fun to write a R-rated day time soap opera?? like As The World Turns + Sex In The City :)

By semillama on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 05:46 pm:

    How would the probability be any different than any other combination? That's the question to answer first.

By eri on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 05:57 pm:

    I think that is what I was trying to say Sem. Thanks. I don't see how it would be any more or less probable than any other relationship.

    Sarah, there is nothing wrong with asking questions and thinking about things whether you believe it will or won't come to. I mean, entertaining ideas just makes you think, it doesn't mean that we all are going to start planning your wedding or anything!! Relax a little, and go through all of this in your head, ask questions when you want, and have fun. Sounds like when you aren't thinking too much about it you are enjoying your time with Glen, so enjoy it.

By sarah on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 06:15 pm:

    good point, eri. i will try to do just that.

    sem, i think it's very, very probable for hetero men and women, and homosexual men and women. it happens every day, all the time. but you just don't hear much about succesful *monogamous* bisexual people having long term, traditional-type relationships.

    maybe this has more to do with kelly than with glen. i think my ego wants to believe that kelly is gay, so i can have a nice, neat explanation for why after meeting me back in september he could give a flying rats ass about my very existence, especially when he affected me so much.

By eri on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 06:26 pm:

    I have a bisexual friend who was in a monogomous relationship with a man, got married, but when she ended up pregnant, the guy changed. Whole big story, but I don't think bisexual makes a huge difference if you want a monogomous relationship.

    I mean, if you are with someone in a monogomous relationship, then you aren't with anyone else, so what difference does it make?

By kazoo on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 09:33 am:

    I really don't think that orientation has anything to do with whether or not a relationship is successful. Well of course, if you are a man married to a lesbian or vice-versa, well then there are some issues. But if both people are open and comfortable with it, it seems unlikely that their sexuality is going to be a deciding factor in the success of the relationship. If Glen has unresolved feelings for Kelly...well, it is that relationship specifically that seems to be the issue. That kind of thing happens in all kinds of relationships.

    "but you just don't hear much about succesful *monogamous* bisexual people having long term, traditional-type relationships."

    Really? I don't hear about them being unsucessful either. In fact, I don't really "hear" about them at all. It's not that they don't exist, but I think once in a long-term traditional, individual orientation ceases to be a huge issue, at least to the extent that outside people are made aware of it.

    Well, unless you are a bi-woman in a hetero relationship who needs to constantly assert her bisexuality. You know the type. Or the ones that "come out" after they are with a guy and who think that going to ani difranco shows with their scrawny politically progressive boyfriends and checking out women together is participating in queer culture.

    God I hate people.

By sarah on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 02:31 pm:

    have any of you heard this song by the dixie chicks?

    A Home

    I mistook the warnings for wisdom
    From so called friends quick to advise
    Though your touch was telling me otherwise
    Somehow I saw you as a weakness
    I thought I had to be strong
    Oh but I was just young, I was scared, I was wrong

    Not a night goes by
    I don't dream of wandering
    Through the home that might have been
    And I listened to my pride
    When my heart cried out for you
    Now every day I wake again
    In a house that might have been
    A home

    Guess I did what I did believing
    That love is a dangerous thing
    Oh but that couldn't hurt anymore than never knowing

    Not a night goes by
    I don't dream of wandering
    Through the home that might have been
    And I listened to my pride
    When my heart cried out for you
    Now every day I wake again
    In a house that might have been
    A home
    A home

    Four walls, a roof, a door, some windows
    Just a place to run when my working day is through
    They say home is where the heart is
    If the exception proves the rule I guess that's true

    Not a night goes by
    I don't dream of wandering
    Through the home that might have been
    And I listened to my pride
    When my heart cried out for you
    Now every day I wake again
    In a house that might have been
    A home
    A home

By agatha on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 02:14 pm:

    Sarah, are you feeling blue?

By eri on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 07:14 pm:

    I haven't heard it. I don't listen to the Dixie Chicks, not because of the boycott, but because I never liked them.

    Sarah, are you allright? I am worried about you and feel like a loser cuz I am only 80 miles away and still never made it to my car to get to Austin.

By sarah on Monday, June 2, 2003 - 06:03 pm:

    i have been feeling pretty shitty about life in general, but whatever. it's the same shit over and over.


    nate, please come back.

By eri on Monday, June 2, 2003 - 11:25 pm:

    What's going on Sarah? You still seeing Glen?

By More ass on Tuesday, June 3, 2003 - 12:22 am:

    i guess the dots still work.

    i've been in a slump myself. past couple of weeks. i'm drifting. often stoned, rarely doing what i should be doing. half of my life is this glorious glowing star, the other half remembers himself as a constant failure. he can't shake it no matter how much he knows it isn't true.

    last night i have the edge of the memory of what keeps being there. i recall waking, demanding the light. i recall phrases or ideas or fragments of ideas being put together in my head in nonsensical manners. nonsense. six different picture puzzles, pieces mixed and then forced together into something frameable and occassionally familiar but as a whole incomprehensible. i can't explain it, i couldn't explain it then. but demanding the light means there must have been something to see.

    something. i usually don't wake, but rather point: it's over there. it's here. what it is is never clear. when i was a young boy my mother caught me at the top of the stairs talking frantically about demons. demons? do i see demons?

    am i sane? so much psychic crap falls into me. the feeling and emotion of future events. not visions, not pictures. i don't ever see pictures in my head. just that inarticulatable impression of place and event of which my memories are built. but not memories. not memories until later.

    does everyone wrestle with their own sanity? is this part of the human condition, to constantly doubt your perception? hello, god? can i have a more common reality now?

    that other half of me, though. so shining. so beautiful and solid and human. i want to take root in it. i am certain that i will. that i am. but in the interim, i am restless.

    my roommate's brother was here this weekend. from potsdam, ny. with his wife and seven month old girl. we had a great party on saturday night. i slipped one sentence political, and thankfully roommate's brother saw what was coming and instantly, gracefully, changed subject. i wanted to breathe a hail mary.

    before i spoke my brain was raging against itself: don't say it, don't say it. you don't need to be an asshole every fucking time. i knew i didn't want to say it, but i said it anyway. am i fucking possessed? can you get out now, please?

    the child, the child. her eyes were huge. she'd stare at me when i played guitar. i was new enough in her world that i could stop her crying almost instantly almost every time. not that she cried often.

    this change has been soaking through me. three months ago i was reaquainted with the desire for children. it started as a faint little tingle in my mind. a little electricity on my spine, through my soul. it grows, slowly.

    over the weekend, i watched the change in me. i didn't want to hold the baby when she first got here. i wasn't opposed to it, but i wasn't seeking it out. this morning, mom was folding some laundry and the baby was fussing so i just grabbed her. stopped her crying, held her. i didn't want to put her down after that.

    what a difference. i was sure i didn't want children.

    it is the same shit over and over again. it is the planets and the tides. the tides, sarah, maybe you need the ocean in your mouth.

    i found a wetsuit. i'm going to walk into the ocean and swim straight out. past the breakers and over the kelp forests and see what happens. i haven't swam in years, but i'm going to see what happens. i am scared to death of having so much dark water underneath me, but i'm going to see what happens.

    and then i'm going to eat mushrooms in the forest and stand back and look at the arms of two galaxies just starting to twist into each other's gravity. and then i'm going to get married. and then i'm going to make a baby.

By Cat on Tuesday, June 3, 2003 - 05:27 am:

    Don't wade out too far, Dearcock.

By sarah on Tuesday, June 3, 2003 - 11:54 am:

    yes, a more common reality. that's exactly it. i'm average, but i want to be even more average. other people make it seem so easy, so natural. that's what gets me.

    i've started saying it aloud. "i am most likely moving back home after the first of the year."

    i say most likely because that's still a half a year away. you can make preparations, you can go through the motions of acheiving a goal, but six months leaves a lot of room for chaos to interrupt.

    i don't really want to leave. if i did, i would have left a year ago, right after the end. it's not that i want to leave, it's that i'm running out of reasons to stay.

    the past two years have felt like a lifetime of challenge. when i left hawaii i knew it would be hard, i was ready for a new challenge. i was ready for the next big thing. well, the big thing didn't work out, but i'm left still wanting it. love, yes. babies, yes. somewhere to call home.

    instead i'm drinking way too much liquor and wine, and eating way too much food and filling myself up to drown out the lack of direction or purpose. i stay busy - a big garden, a little sister, yoga, yoga, and more yoga. i drive a big yellow tractor and clunky blue convertible and i always wear a cowboy hat. i date stupid boys and have stupid sex. i repeat to myself aloud, who are we to want more than what we have? to think we deserve more than what we have? what i have may be enough, true, but it's not a life, it's just the filling up of time.

    what is a life? i don't know, and i wish didn't have the capacity even to ask such a question.

    i am frustrated by the lack of connection, depth, history, or meaning in the few, cursory relationships that have presented themselves. i tell people i am moving home, and nobody protests, nobody is surprised, nobody is sad. they all nod solemnly, as if they've known something all along that i still don't. i've asked myself, if i really needed someone or something, who here would actually be there? one or two might feel obligated to be there, but who would *want* to be there? that's always my issue. who loves me enough or sees enough beauty in me to want to go to the end of the earth to save me if i needed saving? in texas the answer to that question: kevin. so it didn't work out, it never will, and there are details. but there is a true, pure love between us that is the real thing, that is greater than all of the details. we agree that the love doesn't come from either of us, it comes from god; it existed before we met and gives us the power to both acknowledge it and let each other go.

    so i'll go home. not because it will fix anything. not because it's hawaii. not because i think i'll find the next big thing there. it wasn't there when i left, it won't be there when i return. i'll go home because there are people - my dad, my family of friends - who truly would want to be there when i really need someone. people who love me and care, and whom i love and care for deeply. people who barely perceive my two-year absence - and i mean that in a *good* way. because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter the things you do you to fill up the time. there are great jobs, and organic gardens, and convertibles and little sisters and stupid sex anywhere. what matters are the relationships you grow and the love you share. and fuck almighty do i miss surfing.

    don't be afraid of the ocean, nate. there's nothing scary down there, there's nothing that will hurt you. it's just an ecosystem of life that has very little interest in your passing through it. and the ocean, the water itself, it's not at all like the demons. it doesn't want to swallow you up, it actually wants to spit you back out, so when you're done swimming, let it do just that.

    thank god the dots still work. it's some kind of ineffable divination that proves itself worthy of believing in.

By wisper on Tuesday, June 3, 2003 - 12:01 pm:

    thank you nate.
    no one believes me

    i get pictures in flashes. Like memories that haven't happened yet, just like you say. Then when i get to that point in time, months or years later, the two instants fly together and for a second, i am insane. Am i remembering this again, or is it the present now?

    it's always useless information.

By Antigone on Tuesday, June 3, 2003 - 12:19 pm:

    "it's just an ecosystem of life that has very little interest in your passing through it."

    And that's why it will kill you just as casually.

    "does everyone wrestle with their own sanity?"

    No, Natey, only the c00l people.

    If it helps you to know, I have the barest hint of what you're experiencing. Maybe you're why I've been having the most vivid dreams the last few weeks. Maybe you were the interesting fellow whose face I couldn't see in last night's dream.

    My sensitivity to such things comes and goes, but even at it's height these days it's only enough to add an interesting fuzziness to my perception of reality. It helps remind me that the seen is not everything.

    Keep exploring, Nate. Just don't drown. We want some part of you in this world so we can gawk at ye.

By Spider on Tuesday, June 3, 2003 - 12:23 pm:

    Nate and Sarah, I think I may know how you feel.

    I'm not living, I'm just killing time.

    The other night, when I couldn't sleep, I sat on the floor in the dark and cried, and at first I thought I was crying out of frustration from the insomnia, and then I realized I was crying because I was so very unhappy, down to the root of my self. This is not the life I want, and this is not the self I want.

    I have always given the advice to others going through identity crises that if you don't like who you are, it is within your power to become a new person. You just slow down enough to recognize everything in your day that constitutes a choice, and you ask yourself, "What would the person I want to be do in this situation?" And you do it.

    Why don't I do it?

    I say things I don't mean all the time. I ask questions I know the answers to. I answer questions untruthfully, just to throw people off my back. I waste hours and hours on these messageboards and others, rather than do my job (my duty). I embarrass myself in front of my family by acting like my 15-year-old self instead of the 25-year-old I should be. I have only two good friends to speak of, and I rarely speak to them because I find that I don't like myself when I'm around them, and it's because of me, of the way I choose to act around them. I spend too much money and energy on stupid, selfish things, and I don't give enough to those who need help. I am afraid of people, and my way of coping with the fear is to react with contempt and disgust. I am filled with blackness.

    I don't want this life. I want another one.

    I have decided I will stay here for one more year. In the fall, I will study for and take my GREs. I will apply to different grad schools to study history. If I'm not accepted into any programs, I will move to another part of the country next summer. Maybe I'll move to the UK.

By agatha on Tuesday, June 3, 2003 - 08:13 pm:

    Why are we all so sad? Is this the way it's supposed to be?

    I refuse to believe that.

By patrick on Wednesday, June 4, 2003 - 12:12 am:

    jesus christ is the the tell-tale couch?

    past the kelp beds? dude thats mega scary. the kelp beds themselves are a haven for scary creatures of the deep.

    if it means must be the moon.

    im kind with you all, in part.

    spider, to a degree i feel your 'killing time' mentality.

    june gloom?

    its a verifiable weather pattern here. every morning its foggy and even moist out. the sun barely makes its way in time for sunset for nearly the entire month.

    i should be on top of the world. i have an amazing kid who smiles and coos at me. she responds when i sing nonsense. its fortunate she doesnt understand the words just yet. i can make her laugh hysterically with my rendition of Ole Mc Donald Had a Farm. She lets me sleep. She has yet, to date shit on me. How could i possibly complain. Yet I feel in a slump. Im sad. Im fairly distant from nico...emotionally and it seems hard to get back.

    it must be the stars, moon. Something. I need to get back to printing and Ive just one or two steps shy of getting this darkroom in the back set up. Maybe thats it. I need results. As if Eva wasnt enough, but i need to see more of my fruit.

    Spider id suggest similar to you. i think school would really great for you as well. The working world is just too dull. You need people with the very same interests around in a concentrated environment...i think that would be great for you.

    Nate let me know whats beyond the kelp beds.
    And if you didnt know it already you can come over and play with Eva anytime...she's dying to meet you. In fact, we're kind waiting on you. Ping pong, bbq and a zin await!

By moonit on Wednesday, June 4, 2003 - 01:35 am:

    It can't be the weather cause I feel it too.

    I'm exisiting, but not pushing myself.

    I get up, I come to work, I go home, I go to bed.

    I've been neglecting _everything_

By semillama on Wednesday, June 4, 2003 - 10:30 am:

    DOn't worry Moonit, your American candy is on the way.

    SPider, you should really go to emory and hang out with Kazoo. You'd have great fun. Emory is what I think to be your kind of school environment.

By ANtigone on Wednesday, June 4, 2003 - 12:22 pm:

    LOoks like sem has the sticky shift disease.

By Spider on Wednesday, June 4, 2003 - 12:44 pm:

    As Emory University has a Medieval European History program, it will be on my list of schools to apply to.

    My angst is related in good part to the fact that my 25th birthday is 8 days away. GAH.

    And I have PMS now.

    Oh, and my life really is suffocating.

By eri on Wednesday, June 4, 2003 - 12:59 pm:

    For some reason I got this same way around my 25th birthday. It really hit me hard and I felt old and useless, like there was no point to anything that I did. I was pregnant and working and all of the sudden my job sucked (even though it was the best one I ever had). I just went thru the motions of day to day shit and was pretty melancholy.

    Afterwards I went on this binge of trying to be young and trying to look you and trying to live young (as if I were old).

    It went away. I just kinda dissappeared with time. I don't know which decision or change in my life made it go away, but it did.

    Now I am wondering if all of that is going to come back when I hit 30 next spring. Who knows.

By patrick on Wednesday, June 4, 2003 - 01:14 pm:

    i would concur with eri in part as well.

    spider its a 20s thing. the uncertainty. its like...ok. you've cleared all the pylons of your education, you have a steady income, place of your own, car, a bit of stability... now what.

By Spider on Wednesday, June 4, 2003 - 03:37 pm:


    Is that all there is?

    If that's all there is, my friend, then let's keep dancing.

    Let's break out the booze and have a ball.


By moonit on Wednesday, June 4, 2003 - 04:44 pm:

    Spidery Spider give me your email.

    Sem/Kazoo - did it get there yet?

By moonit on Wednesday, June 4, 2003 - 04:45 pm:

    wait, lets try that again.

    Spider, can i have your email address please?
    Thanks luv

By Spider on Wednesday, June 4, 2003 - 05:00 pm:

    I just sent you an email. :)

By Spider on Wednesday, June 4, 2003 - 05:16 pm:

    Hey, my brother just emailed me to say that he got accepted into the graduate English program at Northeastern University! Yay!

    So, that settles it, then -- I have to go back to school. I'll be damned if I'm the only member of my family without an advanced degree.

By Spider on Wednesday, June 4, 2003 - 05:31 pm:

    ...Then again, I think of people like Droopy, who never went to college and is way more educated and wise and experienced in the ways of the world than I'll ever be, and a degree doesn't seem so important after all.

    But, no, I'm going back to school.

By patrick on Wednesday, June 4, 2003 - 05:35 pm:

    for what its worth spider, what i believe would serve you well is not something they issue degrees or certificates for.

    and im not being crude or randy...or anything like that, just generalizing.

    i think school, however, could be a catalyst though, so good luck to you for that.

By Spider on Wednesday, June 4, 2003 - 05:43 pm:

    You mean a boyfriend? Probably. Friends I can relax around would be nice, too. Grad school would probably help in both of those areas.

    Plus, the focus of my day would be on learning cool stuff and not on writing the same freaking emails over and over and over again. Life would become worth living again.

    So, school it is.

By patrick on Wednesday, June 4, 2003 - 06:00 pm:

    Not necessarily a boyfriend. Just people in general that you can unwind with, other than your family.
    A boyfriend would be potential outcome, but i was being more general.

By semillama on Wednesday, June 4, 2003 - 06:20 pm:

    Yes, moonit, but I have been forbidden to comment on it until Kazoo does.

    ALthough I have to say that's great cereal!

By moonit on Wednesday, June 4, 2003 - 06:40 pm:

    Now you know why we call him the Cereal King!

By Antigone on Wednesday, June 4, 2003 - 06:52 pm:

    Hey, Spider...why don't you move to Ft Worth and shack up with droopy. Then we could do lunch now and again. :)

By agatha on Wednesday, June 4, 2003 - 10:10 pm:

    That would be so great.

    Moonit, are you telling me that you sent something to Sem and Kazoo, but you still haven't sent me my surprises from a year ago? Not that I'm one to talk, but sheesh!

    I applied to grad school for the fall, but I suspect I'm not going to get in again.

By eri on Wednesday, June 4, 2003 - 11:00 pm:

    I am thinking about going back to school when Micki starts school. It's a little over a year away. Maybe I can qualify for a grant or something, and go back to a Jr. College and get going again. Lord knows I don't need another fucking student loan. Can't afford the one we have now!!!!!

    Why can't you get into grad school Agatha?

    Maybe we should all just make a Sorabji commune where we work, and go to college, and have group picnics and beat the shit out of each other for political beliefs, and take nudie pics of each other, and call it a new religion!!!! Sorabjites!!!!!

    Sorry, too much wine, too long a damned day, and not in the best of moods.

By Platypus on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 01:24 am:

    that sounds like a great plan, eri. we can just found our own damn grad school.

By Antigone on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 02:15 am:

    right...spunky living in a commune...this I'd pay good money to see. :)

By J on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 02:20 am:

    Think of James in America.

By Spider on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 10:26 am:

    Droopy.... *sigh*

By patrick on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 01:01 pm:

    hey moonie, if agatha gives you any kind of shit for not sending some international mail her way, just respond "mail art".

By eri on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 02:39 pm:

    Who would be the educators in our grad school? And would it be "Sorabjites Only" allowed inside the commune walls (aside from visitors)?

    We could probably get the coolest bands to play there, though!!!!!

By Spider on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 03:14 pm:

    Let's see...

    I would teach Theology
    Antigone would teach Linguistics
    Dougie would teach French
    Sarah would teach Web Design
    Patrick, Wisper, and Agatha would teach the visual arts
    Platypus would teach English Lit
    Kazoo would teach Women's Studies, of course
    Semillama would teach Anthropology/Archaeology, natch


    And we would all be each other's students.

By Platypus on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 04:56 pm:

    I think Nate needs to teach altered states of consciousness.
    Spunkster can teach national security theory.

By Antigone on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 05:47 pm:

    "Antigone would teach Linguistics"

    Whhaaaaaaaa? UuuuH?


    I'll be dean of the Sorabji Seminary. :)

By wisper on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 06:21 pm:


By moonit on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 06:30 pm:

    Sarah should also teach some form of cooking/baking thing.

By Platypus on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 07:06 pm:

    but she also has to teach organic gardening!

    moonit shall be our history teacher.

By eri on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 07:15 pm:

    I was gonna say something about the organic gardening!!!!!

    Sarah is gonna be damned busy at this rate, with all of the classes she is going to have to teach!!!!

    That's OK, I don't get to teach anything, so I will be the bored one!!!

By Antigone on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 07:16 pm:

    I think eri should teach enthusiasm!!!!!!!

By eri on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 07:40 pm:

    Yeah, I can start a cheerleading squad, that's it.

By agatha on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 08:32 pm:

    Eri can teach choir and theater.

    But, what about Mark and Dave?

    I'm ignoring the mail art comment. You wait and see, suckah foo.

By Platypus on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 09:38 pm:

    mark is music

    dave is philosophy.

By moonit on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 11:32 pm:

    I was gonna reply with a big MAIL ART, but decided not to, seeing as I'm such a big slacker. Email me your address again Agatha, I promise to post.

    I'm not sure about teaching History. After all, NZ is only a 150 yo country u know. I think? Is it? Fuck.

By Ophelia on Friday, June 6, 2003 - 02:35 am:

    may i point out that there is no science in the curriculum?

    just sayin...maybe i aint qualified yet but once i finish up my undergrad perhaps i could teach some physics or biology (since i seem to be drifting into that department).

    i wanna take sarah's organic gardening + cooking class, and dave's philosophy class.

    (about the rest of this thread... you guys are scaring me, i dont wanna grow up! meh...or just verifying my disillusionment, or somethin like that...)

By Spider on Friday, June 6, 2003 - 09:31 am:

    Antigone, ain't you the psycholinguistics guy?

    Oh, yeah, I could teach Psychology and Italian, too.

By sarah on Friday, June 6, 2003 - 10:29 am:

    hey. are y'all trying to cheer me up or something?


By sarah on Friday, June 6, 2003 - 10:31 am:

    heather will teach architecture.

    daniel will teach psychology.

    sheila will teach zoology.

    droopy will teach literature.

    this is a fun game.

By Spider on Friday, June 6, 2003 - 10:38 am:

    Dave should be our guidance counselor.

By eri on Friday, June 6, 2003 - 01:29 pm:

    Sarah would also need to teach or lead the yoga classes, so we don't have to do yoga off of video/dvd all of the time.

    I'm good behind a sewing machine, so Patrick and Nico could design and I could sew and we could have our own fashion industry!!

By kazoo on Friday, June 6, 2003 - 02:58 pm:

    Wow. There's a lot here. All I have to say though, if you (Spider, specifically, but anyone in general) are looking to make connections with people in any kind of substantial way, do not go to graduate school.

    Or at least, do not assume that being in school will facilitate these things. I am serious. Graduate school is quite possibly one of the most isolating experiences I have ever had. I thought that is what I wanted, to be alone, just studying. I had a rude awakening and had to admit that I was human and not above the need for friendship, affection, etc.

    This is just something to consider. It's possible to make friends, it just requires a considerable amount of effort, especially for someone like me who cannot seem to take any initative with anything that involves another person. Other people probably have better luck than I do, but I am not the only one and I suspect you are a bit like me in this regard.

    But I have to say, once you do make one or two really good connections...they will be the best friends of your life because they will see you through all the agony and trauma that is qualifying exams and prospectus defenses.

    That was just a warning. I think you should totally be in school, and even if it seems hard to make friends, it is so very cool to be around people who will understand all your your wierd obscure intellectual references. Plus you have been out of school for several years which is something that, when asked, I always encourage. In my experience there is a HUGE difference between a student who took some time off and one who hasn't ever really had their head outside of the asshole of the academic monster.

    And if you seriously consider Atlanta, come to visit and I will show you around. I will introduce you to Dr. Mark Jordan who is one of the nicest professors that we have here. He is brilliant, an incredible writer, and one of the coolest Catholics that I know (besides you).

By Spider on Friday, June 6, 2003 - 03:56 pm:

    Gosh, thanks!

    "Graduate school is quite possibly one of the most isolating experiences I have ever had."

    Really?? I was seriously (seriously) counting on grad school for friend-making opportunities, because I'm too damn shy to do so in my current circumstance. All (heh...all 3) of my good friends are girls I've known since high school -- I had the hardest time opening up to people in college and I seem to be stuck in that state. This is probably the hardest thing for me right now.

    I should say, out of fairness, that my friends are incredibly loyal and I know without a doubt that they care about me quite a lot. I feel the same way about them. But sometimes they (one in particular, especially) can be close-minded and, though they may not have any bad intentions, I feel like I have to edit and censor a good deal of what I'd like to say around them. I know that you can never be completely open around anyone, because no one loves you entirely unconditionally (well, except God), but lately I've felt like they are compelling me to agree with them on some scary issues, so I have to keep silent.

    They must have their own complaints about me, I'm sure. (I know I can get passive-aggressive when I'm angry -- that's got to be annoying.)

    Now I feel bad because 2 of my friends are coming to visit me tomorrow to celebrate my birthday (early), and they're very generous (I don't mean just with gifts, either) and fun, and I'm sure we'll have a great time.

By dave. on Friday, June 6, 2003 - 06:09 pm:

    happy birthday (early).

By semillama on Friday, June 6, 2003 - 06:42 pm:

    I would have to say that I made a lot of friends in grad school, and that i would not consider my experience isolating. Intoxicating, however...

By eri on Friday, June 6, 2003 - 07:34 pm:

    Happy early Birthday!!!!!

    We will be having a party for Hayley tomorrow. I hope the sunshine and warm weather holds out and the damned pools are ready!!!!

    I took Hayley to the mall so she could spend her birthday money she got in the mail. Now my feet totally hurt, but hey, I still have dinner to finish.

By dave. on Friday, June 6, 2003 - 09:43 pm:

    and a happy bday to hayley. eat lots of sugar and drive everyone nuts. mwah!

By eri on Friday, June 6, 2003 - 11:43 pm:

    She already is. That girl is eating us out of house and home!!! Tonight, a ribeye steak, pasta and green beans, to finish with a popsicle. An hour later it was three plates filled with kettle corn, and she was still trying to mooch off of Micki after that!!!! I swear, the girl will eat the whole cake and all of the ice cream as a snack tomorrow if we let her!!!! Good thing the neighbors gave us a case of the kettle corn before they left, cuz the girls will go thru the whole thing tomorrow night at this rate!!!!

    Hayley's party is going to be a slumber party if you didn't guess.

    I will need lots of alcoholic donations to make it thru that night!!!!

By Spider on Monday, June 9, 2003 - 09:30 am:

    Thanks for the early birthday wishes.

    I did have a good time with my friends on Saturday. We saw "Spellbound," the documentary on 8 kids in the national spelling bee (my friend M. persuaded us to see it) -- it turned out to be really funny. True, I think we were all laughing *at* the kids and not with them, but it was in good spirits. One of the kids had a scary, scary father -- they were Hindu, and the father had paid 1000 people in India to pray for the boy's victory, and the dad said he'd pay to feed 5000 starving people in India if the boy won. As if the kid didn't have enough pressure. PLUS, he hired tutors for the kid, and made the kid study 7,000 words a day for who knows how many months to prepare for the bee. The kid came in 9th. They interviewed the kid and his parents afterwards, and the dad seemed to be okay with the kid losing, but the mother had a look of terror on her face. I hope the kid's still alive.

    Dave, I had a dream about you and possibly Agatha and Cleo last night. All I remember is that you wore a light green band (music) T-shirt under a tan blazer jacket, and you were muscular.

By kazoo on Monday, June 9, 2003 - 11:31 am:

    Last night I had a dream about Angel from Buffy the vampire slayer. I would have preferred the dave.agathacleo clan.

    More graduate school advice from Professor Kazoo:

    I want to remind everyone that Sem's an archeologist which tends to be a social (read: alcoholic) discipline and he was in a rock band.

    Spider, you should definitely join a rock band. That'll gets you some friends for sure.

    There is always the chance that your cohort will be a social one and schedule weekly happy hour sessions at a local pub. As long as you don't loathe them too much you should go, just being around people does wonders for your mental state.

    Studying in coffee shops makes me feel like I'm being social and I don't have to talk to anyone.

    I don't know if this will be your experience or not, but much of graduate school is about about networking and professionalization so do everything you can to make yourself visible in your department. When I am in the right mood, I can be really good at this kind of socialization.
    We actually talked about this before on my afraid of everyone thread. Go to all the bashes your department throws to meet professors (especially ones that you may want to work with). Be your beautiful brilliant self and they will want to work with you too.

    Go to any and all lectures that look interesting, even if they are not in your field. This is a terrific way to absorb random knowledge without too much effort. And it helps prepare you for giving lectures and paper presentations. It is also a networking tool, an easy way to "look good" because people remember seeing you especially professors that you may not take a class with, but want to meet (or impress). It can also be a source of FREE FOOD which is always nice.

    Try to get into a private research institution with a large endowment. Like Emory.

    More to come. Of course, you can always e-mail me with questions.

By eri on Monday, June 9, 2003 - 12:33 pm:

    I dreamt that I was pregnant again, and for some reason thought that I could carry this baby long enough for it to survive and most likely have my own life spared this time. I don't know why I felt this way and there was absolutely no logic behind it, and I felt like I was fooling myself, so I kept my preganacy a secret, even from Spunky, and then I woke up not knowing how it turned out in the dream.

    Thank God I don't really have to deal with that one!!!!!!!

By kazoo on Monday, June 9, 2003 - 03:19 pm:

    I've been having all kinds of strange dreams lately. The other night I dreamt that I told Sem, "If you cook Space Ghost, I'll eat it." And he then proceeded to place his cat into a large frying pan full of oil and I watched his cat just sit there, cooking. As the dream went on, I started to get upset and queasy and realized, "I don't eat cats," but by then he was half cooked and it was too late to save him.

By eri on Monday, June 9, 2003 - 04:06 pm:

    Oh, I hate those dreams like that. I haven't had any like that in a long time, but they do wig me out.

By Spider on Monday, June 9, 2003 - 04:54 pm:

    Thanks for the grad school advice, Kazoo. I will probably have to force myself to go to the parties, but the lectures will be fun.

    I have to share this with you.... This weekend, I thought about my fear of people and the way I use contempt as a defense, and I felt very guilty about that and decided I should change. But it was a "yeah, I'll work on that....tomorrow" kind of feeling.

    At church yesterday, even though there were plenty of empty pews and I was the only one in my long pew, an old woman sat right next to me. Today I went to daily Mass and again, with tons of empty seats, a woman sat right next to me.

    Don't cats flock to those allergic to them? It's just like that!

    I felt like I was bristling with "Stay. Away. From. Me." vibes, but apparently I just can't shut off my personal magnetism. :)

By Daniel ssss on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 01:04 am:

    Grad school in St Louis: Webster, Maryville, Font Bonne, Cocordia, Washington U, Lindenwood, and a bunch more.

    Much to choose from.

    Where is Droop anyway?

    I taught lit and comp for way too long, business and grant writing, tech writing, and specialized in victorian pornography and The Emperor of Ice Cream himself.

    If you visit any grad school in the area, lemme know. Free room and boaRD FOR SORABJITES.

By Spider on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 09:34 am:

    That's very generous of you, Daniel, thanks.

    Droopy is in Ft. Worth, TX.

By eri on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 12:43 pm:

    I was supposed to go to Washington U. Alumi discount or some shit. My parents backed out at the last minute, and I owed them money for previous car repairs (even though they picked out the POS and traded my car in behind my back), so I couldn't leave on time and missed out. Besides, I didn't make enough to pay for it even with the alumni discount.

By sarah on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 03:02 pm:

    last night i dreamt i surfed a big wave on the south llano river. upstream.

By eri on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 03:27 pm:

    Can you surf? I suck at it. SUCK. It's like watching me play tennis....just painful to watch :p

    I don't remember my dreams from last night. They were fresh in my mind when I woke up but my mind was quickly preocupied with other things.

    What a day.....I need a drink and it's so early. I just wish I could stop crying and have a little peace of mind. I hate having the carpet yanked out from under me like this.

By patrick on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 05:47 pm:

    sarah have you seen Dogtown Z Boys?

    its been on lately and i cant stop watching it.

    Its one of the best documentaries ive seen.

By Nate on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 05:12 am:

    can sarah surf? shiiit. can monkeys hurl crap?

    i spent last weekend in vegas. did i mention that? i'm not sure if i have. anyway, i spent last weekend in vegas and drank such a huge amount of beer, wine and liquor that i'm surprised my liver didn't pack up and leave while i was passed out.

    and yes, when i say "huge amount" i'm talking in relative nate terms.

    saturday morning we got up and watched the cubs beat the yankees. heh. why the fuck did they pull... nevermind. i'm not here to talk baseball. roughly noon saturday i had my first beer with a quizno's sandwhich in a dirty lounge in the excaliber.

    the excaliber is a pit.

    so there, first beer at noon saturday. from there we drank steadily until my last beer, which was at about 8am sunday morning.

    i've drank steadily before, getting to that light "maintenance" drunk. the drunk where you wouldn't mind driving a car, you can talk on the phone, you're not making a fool of yourself. you never push over the edge, just drink steadily and maintain.

    and of course, i've been blotto fucking drunk before, also.

    but i do believe that this was the first time i've gone from maintenance drunk, to blotto drunk, back to maintenance drunk, back to blotto drunk.

    and really, back to maintenance drunk. because i wasn't all that drunk when i went to bed. which was after my last beer, at about 8am.

    so, my first point of departure from maintenance drunk was two glasses of port at about 8pm saturday. this was at smith and wollensky's, which, if i spelled it correctly, is a steak house. if i didn't spell it correctly, we were at a steak house, with a name something like the above.

    the meal we ate at S&W's was ridiculous. to look over the menu with i ordered 'jameson, neat'. it arrives as a roughly four-shot drink. i think 'neat! just what i ordered!'. (ooo, what a funny man i am!)

    as our starters arrive i'm finishing my whiskey. luckily, with the starters comes a bottle of wine, which the best man (did i mention this was a bachelor party?) decided was remarkable value for the price (a paltry $40). so, i start the wine, a cab, along with smoked salmon pastrami with rye bread, crab cakes, and a wollensky salad which includes cubes of bacon and sauteed mushrooms in a nice viniagrette.

    then, another bottle of wine arrives along with our steaks. i have in front of me a fillet mignon, rare, which must exceed 12 oz. it was delicious. we eat our steaks, polish off the wine, and then start to shrug off the dessert cart.

    but fuck that. the night before i'd ordered frugally only to find that the bill would be split evenly. i didn't complain then, but i sure as hell ordered some of that cheesecake shipped in from the bronx that morning. and a bottle of port for the table. we got out of there for just under $900, which isn't bad for an unemployed chap like myself.

    those two glasses of port put me over the line, though. on the walk back i started bumming parliments from the dude i nearly got into a fist fight with the night before. when we got back to the hotel we went right for a cab and straight to the crazyhorse.

    the crazyhorse is one of those titty bars. i sat in a comfy chair for several hours, watching women in g-strings dance on stage. turning down most of the women who wanted to splash their tits in my face and rub their asses on my package. those i didn't turn down i bought for the guy next to me, the man-to-be-chained. for some reason i slowed my drinking down and came back to maintenance level.

    and then. and then we send the man-to-be-chained into a backroom with a stripper who knows we're going to give her $400 when they come back out. and then we have about half an hour to kill while they are gone. and then i start in with the jack and cokes.

    and then this tall, skinny chick starts throwing her chest at me (and the rest of us, as we are standing in a circle.) and bumping her ass up against my stuff. and telling us to be sure to watch her when she hits the stage.

    which she does, and in my drunken state i am amazed by the most technically awesome pole dancing i've ever seen. upper arm strength to spare, moving herself up and around that pole like a gymnast on meth.

    and then we were going. back to the tables. i am out of my mind tired but sobering up. and as my last free beer arrives, i've put the last of my chips into the dealer's bin.

    so i pound the beer and go to bed. two hours later the best man, who shared my room, comes stumbling in. he tells me he'd just dumped two beers simultaneously on a blackjack table, shutting the motherfucker down.

    after which he hit the cashier and realized he had a white chip he'd blacked out on acquiring (white being $500.) i explained the straight flush he'd nailed in the last hand of 3 card poker i'd played (stupid house game.) 40-1 payback on a straight flush.

    when i tried to wake him up at noon after the nice man banged on our door to remind us that checkout was at 11, he craweled into the bathroom, took the waste basket, and hurled it across the room at me. the beer bottles in the basket left their confines, slamming into the wall inches from my face.

    we laughed for hours. or minutes. i can't recall.

    we sat in our plane on the vegas runway in 105 heat for over an hour.

    i stopped drinking. my last beer was 8am sunday morning.

    i had a huge panic attack monday night. from about 10pm until about 4am when the nyquil kicked me to sleep. i had three words from that goddamn tatu song running through my head on constant loop. like a skipping record, not even a full statement.

    my brain isn't quite back from that yet. i've had minor anxiety attacks periodically since. aftershocks.

    i run when i feel them coming on. that helps, it seems to help. maybe it just postpones it.

    today at 6pm i started crying. i don't know why. i can't figure it out. i went and walked west cliff drive, from lighthouse beach to natural bridges and back. the overcast sky was purple grey. the breakers were caroming off the rocks and four stories into the sky. the surfers were kicking ass. the sea lions were barking. sexy women were jogging with their breasts kowtowing to me as they passed.

    i still felt like shit when i was done. i went downtown and bought a book and a latte. you can't read when your mind is like this. i tried for the length of drinking a latte quickly. then i drove around a bit and ended up in the longs drugs parking lot, where i cried again.

    and then i drove home, and cried in my big man voice. giant gulping moans and staccato bursts of anguish noise. and all the while, there is this little place in the back of my skull where i'm laughing at the ridiculous fool that i am. and then that other little place, where i'm watching the crying man and the laughing voice and wondering what the fuck is wrong with me.

    when i got home i slipped miles into the cd player. i folded clothes. i vacuumed. i calmed down and feel better than i have all week now, thank you for asking.

    but i'm still not right in the head. and i'm still not sure what the fuck is going on.

By spunky on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 10:45 am:





By patrick on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 12:58 pm:

    it wasnt his bachelor party.

    unless he was deliberately speaking in of himself in the third person.

By Nate on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 02:46 pm:

    no, it wasn't my bachelor party. all sorts of people are getting married, i'm just one of them.

By Antigone on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 03:58 pm:

    "i'm just one of them"

    Was that a slip 'o' the key, or are you really getting hitched? :)

By sarah on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 04:08 pm:

    oddly enough, i noted to myself last week, one night as i was laying in bed, readying myself to fall asleep, feeling really alone and generally shitty, that i haven't cried in a remarkably long time.

    typically i'm a healthy crier.

    i *always* have panic attacks and paranoia after a drinking binge. it sucks. but i haven't had a drink since sunday evening, which is pretty good these days.

    besides the standard margarita, the newest back-up drink is diet sprite, unsweeteneed all-natural cranberry juice, and VODKA, on ice.

    between drinking binges, i've been living off designer protein shakes, green tea, and diet vanilla coke. with the occassional tomato or zucchini from my garden. but mostly i'm just giving all that produce away. i can barely stomach it these days.

    tonight i'm hanging out with tim. we're going to the new coffee house to play scrabble on the deluxe board. tomorrow night i'm hanging out with kevin. saturday and sunday i'm with glen.

    all three of these men i've slept with.

    if i could combine tim's sensibility, steadfastness, and incredible circle of friends, with glen's love/knowledge of nature, philosophy and history, and his keen perception of the spirit world, with kevin's sense of humor, creativity, sex appeal, and our deeply profound intimacy... well, i'd have quite a partner.

    but a big chunk of something is missing from each relationship. so instead i just bounce from one to the other, while i wait for something else to happen.

By sarah on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 04:09 pm:

    oh, and yeah. i definitely surf. that's why i'm going back to visit at the end of august. the south shore swell that time of year is perfect.

By Antigone on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 04:15 pm:

    sarah. Settle, or you'll never be happy.

By Spider on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 04:28 pm:

    I had a Long Island Iced Tea and half a sea breeze a few days ago. If I had been aware of its existence at the time, I would have ordered a four-leaf clover: Jameson's and Bailey's.

    Diet Vanilla Coke is amazing. It doesn't taste like a diet soda, and neither is it too sweet. It's perfection in a bottle.

By sarah on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 04:32 pm:

    i'd settle for tim in a heartbeat, if only the sex wasn't so excruciatingly awful.

    i'd settle for kevin in a heartbeat, if only he'd stay on zoloft.

    i'd settle for glen in a heartbeat, if only he aspired to make more than his current minimum wage.

By Spider on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 04:36 pm:

    RE Tim -- can't he learn to do better?

    Of the three, that seems to be the easiest problem to change.

By Nate on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 04:36 pm:

    don't settle. you're better off collecting cats.

    though i'm interested to hear why glen's lack of financial aspirations bother you. you don't need a provider-?

By Nate on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 04:37 pm:

    spider, spider, spider.

    chemistry is chemistry. there isn't much you can do about it.

By Antigone on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 04:38 pm:

    She could settle for being alone.

    Dunno, sarah. Maybe you're happiest when in motion.

By Antigone on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 04:40 pm:

    I'd settle for Diet Vanilla Coke if only it had no sodium content.

By patrick on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 04:40 pm:

    "if only the sex wasn't so excruciatingly awful."

    wanna dish?

By patrick on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 04:41 pm:

    im going to settle for In and Out Burger. I've recently been turned on to them.

    Nate, you're right. Makes wendy's seem like school cafeteria food.

    i now possess some insight into the secret menu too.

By Spider on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 04:43 pm:

    Antigone, it's only got 30 mg. How many of them were you planning to drink?

By Spider on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 04:44 pm:

    Sarah hasn't told us what Tim is doing wrong. Maybe it's not a question of chemistry but of technique.

By Antigone on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 04:52 pm:

    For a while I was drinking about 10 a day.

    I was bloated up like a blowfish, too.

By Spider on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 05:04 pm:

    I'd say it was the daily 200 oz. of fluid you were consuming that was bloating you up, not the sodium -- holy cow!

By sarah on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 05:10 pm:

    it's both. bad chemistry, bad technique. sloppy, awkward, silent, dispassionate.

By Spider on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 05:31 pm:

    Hmmm. Okay, then, how about Glen? Like Nate said, is his lack of career goals that important? Or is it indicative of a general lack of motivation and personal laziness?

By Antigone on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 05:36 pm:

    It's indicative of sarah's inability to be at peace with herself.

By sarah on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 05:44 pm:

    it's personal laziness *and* lack of money. he's 34 years old and lives paycheck to paycheck. he works a bad paying job because he doesn't want the stress of a high paying job. and he's got a daughter.

    i mean, grow the fuck up.

    guess what? life is stressful, and we have responsibilities. plus, i don't want to be the provider. i want to be with someone who makes at least as much as i do, and i make a decent but modest wage. because i don't want to have to live my life worrying about money. with him, i'd be in financial trouble.

    same with kevin. kevin's financial situation is abominable. tim's the one with a huge bank account, which he's saved for a down payment on a house.

    i'm not materialistic. i don't need or want diamonds, designer clothes, expensive trips or cars, etc, or a big house. i prefer to live very simply and i'm not well-off by any stretch of the imagination. but i also have the sense to strive to make an income wherein i don't have to worry about money.

    that's an important personal value to me, and something i look for in a partner.

    glen can also be quite selfish and self-centered. he's lazy and doesn't take pleasure in going out of his way to do things for others.

    also, he'd never ride a motorcycle.

    but besides all of these worthless details, there's the longing and the waiting. there's the filling up of time. i wish i could ditch all three of them, but then i'd have no friends, no social contact whatsoever.

    there's got to be something else. i'm just getting depressed trying to figure out what it is, waiting for something to show me the way. i gotta get out of here.

By sarah on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 05:48 pm:

    i was at peace with myself completely before i fell in love with kevin and moved to austin. and i still experience moments like that.

    but the fact is, i want to get married and have babies. i want to settle down and have a family. and i hardly think that desire means i don't have peace with myself.

By Antigone on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 05:56 pm:

    Sure it does. If you didn't have that want, you'd be at peace.

By spunky on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 06:00 pm:

    I guess I read your first post wrong, nate.

By patrick on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 06:03 pm:

    i dunno.

    there's all kinds of practical sense in it, as you cite sarah, but the consideration of finances when it comes to romance and love, in general, seems absurd to me.

    and you see it all the time in want ads and such, women wanting a man who is financially stable.

    i just don't get it.

    let the next battle in the war of the sexes unfold

By patrick on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 06:05 pm:

    just like women would find it absurd if men stipulated they give head at least once a week.....maybe. i dunno.

    and don't get me wrong sarah i dont think your materialistic or anything of the sort.

    i digress back to the chinese finger cuff equation.

By eri on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 08:46 pm:

    I don't have lots of money, though I once did. I once made a damned good wage for someone of my age and education.

    I was a single mother, working full time, going to college full time, and trying to be a good parent to my daughter, all by myself.

    Finding someone who was financially stable with the potential to be successful, and on that path was a neccessity. I knew that I couldn't be happy if I was the one working, and cleaning the house and raising the children, doing it all, basically. I was already miserable doing what I needed to do to try to give my child a good life. If I was going to have a man and have more children, it was important that he be able to provide certain things, so that I wasn't stuck doing it all, in the same miserable rut I was already in.

    I don't need brand name clothes or fancy cars, and I am not materialistic (though I once was). Making ends meet isn't always easy, and I needed to know that no matter what my children would be taken care of.

    It came down to that too. When I was 5 months preggers with Micki I couldn't work anymore, and I couldn't stand on my feet for more than 10 minutes, so there were a million other things I couldn't do. After she was born, I couldn't work because of all of the special care she needed. And then even more responsibility fell on my shoulders.

    I could probably get a job now, but now after all of these years, my kids are different in someone elses care. I find that I am miserable when I work, cuz I am not there to take care of my kids like I should. So my outlook has changed over the past 4 years.

    The thing is that if I didn't find someone who was financially stable, I would be in a horrible place now and I would be a very unhappy person.

    So for me, demanding those things wasn't absurdity, but rather neccessity.

By Nate on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 09:27 pm:

    that was good, though, spunk. playing it off like you had no idea.

By Spider on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 09:31 am:

    There's nothing wrong with being practical.

By Antigone on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 12:31 pm:

    So the next time a man says, "I couldn't date her because she was just too damn ugly to look at," you won't object?

    He's just being practical, after all.

By Spider on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 01:21 pm:

    I'll have to take your word for it that that's being practical. Personally, I consider avoiding financial ruin to be more important than making sure my environment is aesthetically pleasing, but to each his own.

By heather on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 06:22 pm:

    chemistry is extremely important

    financial intelligence is important to me only
    because people who are stupid with money
    drive me crazy

    something that needs to get out in the open
    so you feel free to talk as you please [although
    i suspect it's open behind the scenes]:

    nate *is* as far as i know getting married- as
    he just sort of said

    it has nothing to do with me and hasn't for a

    it's all good

By spunky on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 07:26 pm:

    is it uncomfortable around here all of the sudden?

By heather on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 07:43 pm:


By Antigone on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 08:22 pm:


    I'm masturbating.

    How about now?

By spunky on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 08:28 pm:

    just make sure you clean it up

By Antigone on Sunday, June 15, 2003 - 11:26 pm:

    Start licking, bitch.

By Nate on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 04:02 am:

    speaking of uncomfortable, i got dumped tonight.

    nate fucked up another engagement.

    i don't want to exist.

    (which is different from wanting to die, so don't be concerned.)

By Spider on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 11:58 am:

    Aw, Nate.

    What happened?

By Antigone on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 12:52 pm:

    Come into the arms of sorabji, Nate. Tell us your woes and let them go.

By Spider on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 12:59 pm:

    Here...have some Robyn Hitchcock:

    Maybe tonight you're aching
    For someone you're dreaming of
    Wait till the dawn is breaking
    Into the arms of love

    Maybe tonight you're crying
    Like a poor wounded dove
    Any time now you're flying
    Into the arms of love

    Maybe tonight you're falling
    For someone you don't know enough
    Tell me you'll soon be crawling
    Into the arms of love
    Into the arms of love

    Maybe tonight you're falling
    Away from all the stuff
    Tomorrow you'll be crawling
    Into the arms of love

    Maybe your world is fading
    It wasn't strong enough
    Through all the dirt you're wading
    Into the arms of love


By patrick on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 01:01 pm:

    ˇAye Aye mi amigo! Ninguna cerveza ni titty barata alquilada de ayuda de la voluntad el dolor. Espero allí comodidad en el armario del non-existance. Visita venida cuando usted viene usted decide irse.

By patrick on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 01:02 pm:

    why is babel fish so fucking gay?

By eri on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 01:03 pm:

    I am sorry Nate....sending a big bear hug of comfort and comiseration your way!

By Lapis on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 03:58 pm:

    Oh no. I'm sorry. Hug?

By Czarina on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 04:43 pm:

    Well, try to be optimistic.

    Better to get dumped before you got married. Its much more of a hassle to get out of a relationship, once the legalities set in.

    See, now don't you feel better?
    Now all you have to deal with is the heartache, and not the evil greed of a hateful woman.

    [and before I get jumped on, of course I don't think women are greedy and hateful, I was just trying to make him feel better.]

    But, really, sorry ole chap.

    Masturbation can be comforting.[just some food for thought :)]

By semillama on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 06:10 pm:

    Sorry to hear that nate.

    It's late, I need to go home and see my sweetie, but I will start a thread about another wedding of a former sorabji poster, Mavis. Stay tuned.

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