I'm beginning to doubt that I can be anything BUT friends with men over the long haul

sorabji.com: Can men and women just be friends?: I'm beginning to doubt that I can be anything BUT friends with men over the long haul

Margret on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 10:00 pm:

    It goes like this:
    (1) We meet
    (2) We become friends
    (3) At some point attraction happens
    (4) We date/marry/whatever
    (5) Attraction goes away
    (6) We revert to friendship

    Do you think my inability to distinguish romantic love from friendship with sexual privileges could be the problem? Is there a distinction? If there is a distinction, can someone, for the love of god, tell me what the fuck it is?

By dave. on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 10:23 pm:

    at some point, as time passes, you have to drop your expectations. "romantic love" is just a high-falutin' way of saying "crush". the crush you have at first will fade. that's your dna trying to make more dna. once the crush is gone, you have to decide if you can stand to live with the person. if you can, you might as well go ahead and do so for as long as it doesn't suck.

    a few, abnormal people can maintain a crush across years and decades, and they are the unrealistic ideal that we all compare ourselves to. but they are freakish mutants and you should shun them for their unhealthy influence on you.

By Margret on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 11:14 pm:

    The main problem is really that when I'm not under the influence of limerence, I actually prefer to be by myself. I like being alone, and never having to negotiate for that with someone else. Kurt Vonnegut called those damned people diplods in Cat's Cradle, I think.

By dave. on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 11:52 pm:

    well then, your question was apparently rhetorical. you pretty much know the answer for you.

    my advice is to simply relax a bit. you're setting yourself up to be alone by clinging to ideals that basically insure that.

    it's like staking your happiness upon the expectation that the sun won't rise in the morning. the sun's gonna do what it's gonna do, what it always does.

    not trying to be a dick. i totally understand your dilemna.

By agatha on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 01:09 am:

    Isn't Dave romantic?

    Are you still with that guy that we met that one time? He seemed very nice. I think there's something to be said for companionship, although I wouldn't put it in quite as stark of terms as Dave did.

By Nate on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 04:32 am:

    this very mindfuck is 50% of what is keeping me single.

By TBone on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 11:21 am:

    Indeed. I think my wife's getting sick of me already.

By patrick on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 01:11 pm:

    i just went to a wedding im confident will be done in 5 years.

    im spewing all kinds of venom for my ex, a fortress i once thought impervious.

    and im still very very romantically involved with the woman i wooed 2 years ago.


By J on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 01:31 pm:

    I just had to PAY for a wedding that won't last two years.

By kazu on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 01:35 pm:

    "i just went to a wedding im confident will be done in 5 years"

    I wonder how many people will be thinking this at my wedding. :(

    "my advice is to simply relax a bit. you're setting yourself up to be alone by clinging to ideals that basically insure that."


By Nate on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 01:45 pm:

    what's wrong with being alone?

    especially when alone doesn't mean alone, just uncoupled?

    i need that thrill and passion that exists in the beginning of a relationship. it lets me ignore everything that frustrates me. and probably more importantly, it lets her ignore all the stuff about me that is frustrating.

By kazu on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 01:52 pm:

    there isn't anything wrong with being alone/uncoupled.

    but if you don't want to be alone/uncoupled, you might want to stop doing things that insure it.

By heather on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 09:27 pm:

    i never fully trust the thrill of the beginning, and i know too many people who use it instead of finding other ways to deal with depression. but whatever.

    i'm fine with being alone, but good company makes almost everything better.

    still i feel i have little i should be saying in this thread. stuff. things. apologies.

By wisper on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 09:59 pm:

    Of the first three friend's weddings i went to, only one couple is still together. The divorces came after less than 2 years. I expect they will keep coming.
    The longest running gay couple i know (10 years) just broke up too. They were going to get married any day.

    Friends get engaged all the time now. Two couples last month alone.
    I have never congratulated any of them.
    Because i'm rude? Because i'm callous?
    Not really. I'm starting to think that wishing someone well on a marriage is like wishing someone luck before a play. I need to think of the wedding equivalent to "break a leg".

By Nate on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 10:22 pm:

    "fuck a mule"

By Margret on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 10:30 pm:

    yeah, it's not so much rhetorical really, dave, as that the things i believe to be true about myself now are not in any sense transcendentally true. i have changed before, i'll change again. i desperately want to be alone, and wonder whether it will hold true when i have a chance to be alone. that is, i judge the yearning for solitude to be reactive and have no sense of whether the desire will continue past its satisfaction.
    we broke up on friday. because we'd essentially become friends who were uncomfortable because of the unspoken web of expectations surrounding the romantic/sexual nature of our relationship. everything, in some sense, revolved around the relationship and the problems and flaws and the blah blah blah of the fucking relationship.
    it wasn't making me happy. it didn't contribute to my happiness: the relationship didn't. the friendship used to and should again. so, i want that back and fuck the other stuff.

By droopy on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 11:28 pm:

    since divorcing my father in 1979, my mother has only dated one guy. it was for maybe two years back in the 80s. he drifted out of her life not long after he got in trouble for tax evasion. she never dated again, and has apparently lived quite happily.

    she'll be retiring soon. she's told me of a plan she has: she wants to get all of her friends together (other unmarried women over 60), buy one of those old, abandoned motels you see on the side of some of the more out-of-the-way texas highways, buy it and live there all together. she says she wants to keep the sign on all the time saying "no vacancy".

    this must happen.

    i think i saw a place in bee cave, texas that might work.

By Margret on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 11:47 pm:

    i want to live in a town called bee cave!

By droopy on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 12:01 am:

    i think it's "bee caves," now that i think about it. there's also a beeville, texas - the county seat of bee county (i shit you not).

    take your pick.

By lapis on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 12:12 am:

    bee cave.

    like the name.

    i can stay in a realtionship for a week if i'm lucky. matt and i were together for three months and we get along alright. i don't tell him everything.

    i feel guilty sometimes, for thinking other men are good looking or just letting myself do things that i want to. fought with a guy on saturday night and we ended up making out in a condemmned apartment.

    i wonder if this is all something i need to prove to myself sometimes.... being alone is good, but so is physicality. when i get particularly close to a male friend, when i fight, when i dance or sing; there must be skin.

By TBone on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 12:56 am:

    I was thinking "fuck a bridesmaid".

    Excitement is overrated.

By Czarina on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 01:57 am:

    I just bought something on ebay,that came from Beeville,Texas.
    I didn't know it was the county seat of bee county.[but I had my suspicions]

    You have to work to make relationships work.But that doesn't mean you should settle for a lemon.The thrill goes away,but there's a comfort mode that kicks in,a things shared together kind of ambience.

    But I think retaining one's autonomy is very important.I am complete within myself.I don't need someone to complete me.

    We have many mutual interests,but also many independant interests,that we persue.I think that not having someone stuck up your ass all the time helps you to enjoy the time you do spend together.

By V on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 04:38 pm:


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