| THIS IS A READ-ONLY ARCHIVE FROM THE SORABJI.COM MESSAGE BOARDS (1995-2016). |
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http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010126/ts/rumsfeld.html I calm myself with knowledge that he may not be able to get funding from Congress for this..but then again....there are enough moderate dems to make it happen. DIDN'T ANYONE LEARN A LESSON FROM REAGAN??????? this Bush administration is proving already to be more damning than I originally thought. So lets see, in one week in office, our illegitimate prez has take a punch at abortion rights, and now he's swinging for missle defense. 207 weeks to go. |
i was reading a bit of history about reagan and gorbechev talking in rjejakdkjfk iceland back in ... 86? apparently the discussion got to the point where reagan said "i'd be happy to ditch all the nukes!" and gorby said "then let's ditch all the nukes! i'm fine by that!" and then gorby said "this brings you to one thing: either say you'll ditch SDI (star wars) or say goodbye" reagan said goodbye. |
it merely seems a funnel of gov cash to donors namely in the military and aviation industries. powell, the nimwit proposes increasing military spending, yet they want us to pull out of situations like Kosovoa, Bosnia and so forth. They want to increase spending yet pull out of military engagments. Explain the logic of this? We love our stealth technology sitting in warehouses in Nevada and New Mexico collecting dust apparently. The nimwits talk about "rogue" nations.....give me a fucking break. Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, Iran, N.Korea and so on are more likely to brign a bomb to the US in a suitcase then lob a missle at us that has a clear departure point on satellite. Which result in us lobbing about countless nukes their way. These "rogue" nations arent that stupid. Terrorism is much more effective in their case than traditional warfare. fucking brilliant plans i tell ya! |
On the whole, Bush is trying to get lots done really fast, it looks like. It's almost impressive. Think he'll burn out? How old is W, anyhow? |
the gop (the power players in government and old money institutions, the noveau-riche converts and even the nra rednecks and soldiers of christ) have this weird hive mentality thing where the personality is almost irrelevant. at every level, the agenda is all that matters. that's why this is all happening so fast. they've had 8 years to plan and revise down to the minutiae. all they needed was the authority. |
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I've voted in ever national election since I was 18 & I've yet to see a Republican candidate for any office that I wd cast my vote for. What I don't get is why nobody is ranting abt living in "the greatest nation on Earth" where we have 28 different choices of cars but only 2 choices for national political parties. (And I'm still pissed at Nader/but that's besides the point.) I wonder if the all the disenfranchised FL voters will ever have their day in court. For the record: I went to my polling station here in Sarasota & voted w/no problems. They asked to see my i.d./I showed them my Voter Registration Card/& I was out of there in 10 min. |
i would like to be able to pretend he isn't really president. |
Although it's nice to see that our nation has gone back to our rich heritage of traty violations. |
Your wrong. There are multiple choices you can make for politians. There's The Green Party, The Consttution Party, The Natural Law Party, The Libertarian Party, The Comunist Party, ect., ect.. Take your pick. You just have to learn about them. And, vote for the candidates that stand on the issues you like. It doesn't matter if they loose. Just that you Vote! |
(And I'm still pissed at Nader/but that's besides the point.) " How can you make a call for more parties and then be pissed at Nadar (presumably for "stealing" some of the Gore vote)? The disenfranchised votes in FL will not completley be taken care of. This happens every major election. The NAACP and ACLU file suits, nothing every really comes from them. Unfortuantely...issues that often have Jesse J and Al Sharpton at wheel....well....they tend to get squashed. Mainstream America doesnt pay that much attention to Jesse and Al. Even if they have worthy issue at hand, which they do in this case and in other cases, they need the mainstream to make anything of it. You may not like this, and frankly it does suck, but many people cringe at the thought of Jesse and Al and the issues they speak for. |
the dem mind control machine is the scariest thing in government today. |
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(choose the best one) A) because you want to ingore it happend B) because you think it didnt happen C) it doesn't apply to you so why be bothered typical american shit. we get all hopped up about politics once every 4 years....then we don't want to hear anything about it for 4 more. fickle fickle fickle |
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Hell a young, white northwest city gal said right here on liberal leaning sorbaji that she had a racists notion....you think older to middle aged white men in the rural deep south don't have some left over racism they still act on? Have you been to the south, muchless Florida? Have you heard of the good ole boy system? I've lived in GA for most of my life, i've been witness to this. I've even been privilege to the good ole boy system. Unfortuantely I think the answer you selected is due to A and C as well. |
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eating bug parts is natural- it's a consequence of them living in your food |
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Every election the NAACP, ACLU and other organizations file suit too. |
because a nation election involves 50+ different sets of election law and (how many?) different balloting places each with their own management and neighborhood conditions, there is bound to be race related disenfranchisement. it is statistically insignifigant. |
and vastness of the task of administering an election is no excuse. I don't care how insignificant the numbers are. thats kind of pussy wouldnt you say? would you accept this same logic if say it were the military? people of other ethnicities were being denied access to the military. What about tax laws? We you take this same nonchalent approach if were discovered people of color were being taxed unfairly? Both the military and our tax system are subject to local conditions. Opponents could have used the same argument for school desegregation. |
think of the ways people were reportedly disenfranchised. it is easy to see that these are small actions perped by small people. |
Having a dozen different candidates that can run differs greatly from having more than 2 candidates that have any real chance at winning/becuz of the way the primaries are run. I think there shd have to be at least 4 parties on the ballot for it to be a national election. I vote for the lesser of 2 evils when neither candidate thrills me/becuz I know that a vote for a 3rd party candidate w/no chance of winning siphons off votes from a viable candidate who is much less scary than the opponent. And yeah -- I think Nader played the spolier. He still didn't get the 5% he needed to get federal funding the next time he runs/& he did hurt Gore. If he'd been decent enuf to bow out/the voters for Nader who wd've then cast their votes for Gore might have made up for the votes for Gore that never got counted here in FL -- as I heard the groundskeeper at a church that was used for polling say on t.v. -- becuz some of the polling machines in heavily Black Democratic precincts were NEVER PICKED UP after the election. Seeing that old Black man stand up in front of those cameras (these were the hearings Kwesi Mfume held re: people who were kept from voting) w/so much dignity in the midst of his anger/ knowing that he had lived long enuf to recall a time when Blackfolks could not vote in this country/hearing him talk abt how that voting machine was left behind/even after he called the Board of Elections to report it -- well, let's just say "disenfranchisment is unavoidable" is a very hollow excuse to someone like him. Or me. |
financial institutions can create computer systems that reliably track billions of dollars down to the penny, we can count the results of a few hundred million votes. And it isn't statistically insignificant! Christ, where were you for the last two months of 2000, Nate? This is not a matter of technology anymore. It's a matter of will. |
Come on people get over it. It is over. |
i find your indignation ridiculous. how can it be over? are we through with voting in this country? i am so frustrated by people who wax religious that the status quo is just fine. it is never fine. THINK, damn-it. |
I am tired of hearing peole scream DISCRIMINATION! went they don't get what they want. |
what people WANT is to be heard |
The bug parts thing interested me, though, so I will start a thread for it. |
And you know what? I never get heard. Have you heard me crying discrimination? No. I got turned down for a job because I was a white male, and not a minority. They directly told me that. Did I cry discrimination? No. My ex fiance had an abortion and i told her not too, and said i did not want it done, but she had it done anyway. So I was ignored because I was only the father, and not the mother. Did I cry discrimination? No. Deal with it and stop being such whiners |
"Deal with it stop being whiners" that has to be about the most ignorant thign i have ever seen you say trace. oh and RC, there were many canidates on the ballot. Unfortunately, the way the repubs and dems work, they pretty much engulf one way or another the majority of america's values. Their job, as a 1/2 of a two party system is to reach as many as possible. The 5% funding that Nadar could potentially receive wouldnt have helped his case. As you saw with the reform party who had 5% from the previous election...well....you saw what happend to that party. It factionalized and split. Havign Nadar back down would have been spinless and contradictory to what it is you seem to want. ACLU Lawsuits Re: Voter Disenfranchisement 1. Andrews v. Cox: On January 5th, the ACLU's Voting Rights Project filed the first post-election challenge to a state's electoral process in state court on behalf of seven African American voters in DeKalb, Fulton and Cobb counties in Georgia. The complaint alleged that voters in some Georgia counties were ten times more likely than others to lose their right to vote because of a "fatally flawed" system. It characterized Georgia's voting system as "a hodgepodge consisting of antiquated devices, confusing mechanisms, and equipment having significant error rates even when properly used." Georgia law currently allows the use of various mechanisms to record votes, including paper ballot, voting machine (lever), vote recorder (punch card machine), electrical scanning systems, and certain electronic voting systems. The ACLU found a high level of error in punch card machines (4.7 percent), used in predominantly African American counties, as compared to the 2.1 percent error rate for optical scanners. The complaint asks the court to block the state from conducting future elections "using machinery that fails to correctly and accurately record every vote cast." 2. NAACP v. Harris: On January 10th, the ACLU, along with the NAACP, the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, and several other groups filed a lawsuit in the federal court in Florida challenging the discriminatory and unequal voting policies and practices in Florida's electoral system. Filed on behalf of the NAACP and twenty-four individual African-American and Haitian-American voters, the lawsuit stems from an investigation conducted by the NAACP in the days and weeks following the November 7th election. The investigation identified disparate and unfair voting practices across the state that resulted in the invalidation of a disproportionate number of ballots cast by black voters for President, the wrongful purge of black voters from official voter lists, a failure to properly process registrations of black voters, and the establishment of unjustifiable barriers to black voters. The complaint asks for a range of remedies designed to repair a system that is fatally flawed. 3. Black v. McGuffage: On January 11th, the ACLU of Illinois filed a case in federal court on behalf of three African American voters alleging that inequalities, highlighted by the use of the error-ridden punch card voting system, resulted in a disproportionate number of ballots from precincts with high racial minority populations going uncounted in the presidential election. The court challenge followed the release of official results in Chicago showing that more than 70,000 legally cast ballots were not counted. A Washington Post analysis found that in those Cook County precincts where the population was comprised of less than 30 percent persons of color, the percentage of uncounted ballots averaged just 4.9 percent. But in those precincts where racial minorities comprised more than 90 percent of the voting population, the percentage of uncounted ballots exceeded nine percent. The lawsuit asks the court to enter a permanent injunction prohibiting the state of Illinois from conducting future elections using the punch card system. In his statement at the Washington, D.C. press conference called to announce the filing of the case in Florida, ACLU Legal Director Steven R. Shapiro said, "What we witnessed in Florida during the past election was a national embarrassment. It is simply no longer possible for the nation to ignore the deep, disturbing, and discriminatory flaws in the electoral system that have now been revealed to all of us in excruciating detail." The ACLU remains committed to ensuring that in the future, each and every vote is counted equally and accurately. |
_if the infrastructure is established_. it hasn't been yet. when it is, disenfranchisement will decrease. because, you know, a large percentage of blackfolk own computers, and are the internet. and most of the disenfranchisement that is effected isn't due to backwater morons scaring people away from the polls. "And it isn't statistically insignificant! Christ, where were you for the last two months of 2000, Nate? " You're smarter than that, Antigone. The election was statistically a tie. Flordia was called for Gore before the conservative west even closed its polls. Bush probably would have won by a larger margin had this not happened. "i am tired of people who have most likely experienced very little discrimination pass judgement on those who have dealt with it all their lives" that's discrimination. we discriminate against trace all the time because he's a podunk rightwing cracker. |
Too me, crackers are lice infested, non-bathing, fowl smelling creatures who know they way they are and are happy to be that way |
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Unfortunatly, I just don't have the time. |
you first. thank you. |
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no use in backtracking, but i think RC had posed the question if those who were disenfranchised would be dealt with. Thats what i was addressing. I wasn't debating the merits of Dubya or the outcome of the election. Whether those disenfranchised would have changed the outcome or not is irrelavent to me. I kinda of suspected that any kind of reform in voting would get put by the wayside after the election due to the public mindset of "get over it" such as Trace has exemplified. Dave im not so sure thats a reasonable idea. I know people who have had their power shut off due to a $15 unpaid bill. My wife is about to start her own business, we need power at the house for her communications. And besides, LA hasnt fucked us yet...so |
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i do know that it's gonna get ugly. there's been a lot of shit dug up lately. i can pat myself on the back 'cause it's shit i've been saying all along. i'm so fucking smart. |
many people rely on power at home for medical reasons...respirators, dialysis machines and whatnot. you'd be better of going and sabtoging the plants |
i don't want to take away the ability to produce, just the ability to be extorted. here again, the people have the power and they just don't care. gimme some of that gop hive-mind power. i promise i'll play nice. |
PG&E already can't pay its bills. what we need to do is boycott products that come from states that have shot their energy prices up. oregon, washington, nevada, arizona... |
I think some texas based companies also supply CA, and even own some of the plants her ein CA. |
no really, the product that should be boycotted in the form of not paying for it is electricity. i really doubt the producers would pull the plug, especially if it was publicized well enough. i think they'd cave and get all those plants back online. don't get too close to my fantasy. |
Trace: "Since when did any of this have anything to do with technology? Or race. People did not punch the damn ballots correctly." Well, let's see how well you can "set this place on fire" by rubbing two sticks together. Let's have a race! I'll use a blow torch and you can have your sticks. Of course technology is a factor. Moron. Nate, from your comments it looks like you assumed I meant internet voting from home. I didn't mention it, but I don't think it would be feasable anyway. Anything like that would be too hackable. And, sure the election was basically a tie. That's exactly why almost any systematic effect on voting was statistically significant. Do you know what "statistically significant" means? |
'"i am tired of people who have most likely experienced very little discrimination pass judgement on those who have dealt with it all their lives" that's discrimination.' explain how that is discrimination. i was using trace's words. i was responding directly to his statements. discriminate: [in this context] to make a difference in treatment or favor on a basis other than individual merit. trace- "I got turned down for a job because I was a white male, and not a minority. They directly told me that. Did I cry discrimination? No." - maybe you should have "My ex fiance had an abortion and i told her not too, and said i did not want it done, but she had it done anyway. So I was ignored because I was only the father, and not the mother. Did I cry discrimination? No." - that wasn't discrimination. it was an unfortunate situation for you, and you did not have the upperhand because it wasn't your body. you should have been more discriminating regarding who you chose to have sex with. |
[what everybody wants is to be heard] "That is what everyone wants. That is what I want. And you know what? I never get heard. Have you heard me crying discrimination? No." Yeah, I heard you whining about that job you wanted but didn't get a while ago. You made yourself heard about that on these boards. And I heard you whining about your past squeeze having an abortion over your protests (not discrimination though). You made yourself heard about that too here. |
Right wing fascist bully boys have their place in Sorabjalia, even if it's just to stop us becoming a bunch of nodding liberal pussies. And besides, I think Trace is getting a jolly from the attention being the whipping boy brings. I don't bother to argue with him any more, since I get more sense from my poodle (except where the issue is chocolate allocation for small mammals). |
"Nate, from your comments it looks like you assumed I meant internet voting from home. I didn't mention it, but I don't think it would be feasable anyway. Anything like that would be too hackable. " my comments addressed two possibilities-- internet voting from home, and higher tech voting at the polls. discrimination at the polls is decidedly low-tech. "explain how that is discrimination. i was using trace's words. i was responding directly to his statements. " you assumed he'd never been discriminated against because he is a redneck. "And, sure the election was basically a tie. That's exactly why almost any systematic effect on voting was statistically significant. Do you know what "statistically significant" means? " statistically signifigant indicates values that exceed the margin of error. they have nothing to do with the outcome. fuckwit. |
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fuck politics, let's shag! just trying desperately to through you all off course... semi-we are all definitely boned..... or need to be! |
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i am willing to bet agatha is the 3rd best mother in the world......and thats say a lot about someone i've never met. 3rd after my grandmother and my wife (someday perhaps) I suspect if kelsey were one of my neighborhood play buddies....id wanna go over to their house all the time cause agatha would be the one who has the pink lemonade and popcorn.....you know...the nonthreatening parental types. (my mom always hated it when my croonies came over...hey even villians rest you know. furthermore, when i wanted a snack I always heard "you'll spoil your dinner") |
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no response would look different. |
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Me: "Shit, we got an emergency on our hands, Trace has no response." Cute Nakey Guardsman with rippling chest muscles:"Whaddya mean, no response? Does that mean the thread will die?" Me: "I don't know, we've never had a situation where he doesn't pull any interesting debate down to the level of his trailer wheels." Guardsman: "Holy Shit, this could be bad." (pause) Guardsman: "I'll give you 30 minutes to stop licking my badge, Mam" Me: "Oh is that your badge?" (fade to waterfall) |
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The interesting question is where he hangs his hat when nakey. |
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Although I think we don't have to call out the National guard because Trace will respond. I don't think he can resist the opportunity. After all, he left once, and returned-what, the next day? Crazy, all of us, crazy. |
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agatha was also very nice. she spent a lot of time talking to me even though she knew everyone else there. it was fun. |
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