| THIS IS A READ-ONLY ARCHIVE FROM THE SORABJI.COM MESSAGE BOARDS (1995-2016). |
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This is on the spaking subject. Micki, as most of you know, was the product of multiple attempts to get pregnant that resulted in many miscarries. You would not believe what we went through to keep her in Eri's womb. She was not inclined to stay there very long either. She was born 11 weeks early and weighed 1 lb 12 oz's at birth. You know what got her through all of her complications? Attitude. Some would call it Spirit. Some would call it Spark. Some would call it "brass Balls".... I call it attitude. You cannot deny it. From the moment she was born, the nurses in the NICU (newborn intesive care unit), said she had a lot of attitude. She shook the walls of her incubator with her screams of anger about what ever was upsetting her at the moment. When she was six months old, she would be in her "excirsaucer" and she would go all stiff, clench her littles hands in a fist and just yell at you for no reason what so ever. I took her beginings into consideration, and could never really bring myself to giving her any kind of "physical warning" IE light smack on the top of the hand for touching a "no-no" after being verbally warned repeatedly. It was simply removed from reach. When she got into something and made a mess, we simply said "no-no micki, that is (dangerous, icky, dirty, owee, etc). She had/s (hoping it has passed) an infatuation with metal keys, as most toddlers her age do. We warned her that she was not to be playing with them, we took them from her numerous times, but not once did we smack her hand after millions of warnings, we just removed the oppertunity from her. She had a thing for sticking these keys into the head set jack on our reciever. The receiver by the way is covered with crayon as a result of Micki's "artistic expression". Did we ever once smack her? Now, we simply told our eldest that she needed to keep her crayons and her keys out of her sister's reach. Well, one day I was at work and Eri was at home doing half a billion things at once, and Micki managed to find Hayleys keys again. this time instead of trying to stick them into the headphone jack, she found a wall outlet and inserted the keys. The shock through her back some 10-15 feet and killed all the wires on that wall. The fire department and ems came out, they took Micki to the ER and checked her out. She is just fine. Of course, there has been a plethora of people syaing "why did you not have covers on your outlets?" Well, that is a good question. Eri went out the very next morning and has installed them. She and I and the plethora questioners are now at peace. My question is this. Do you think Micki cannot take these plastic covers off? Of course she can. Do you think that every where she is going to go, there are going to be covers on the outlets? Most likely not. Do you think she will never have the chance again to stick keys in an electrical socket? Of course she will. Is there any hope in this situation? Of course there is, she got what we like to call a Hurtz Donnit. Practical experience may be the best detterent. After all, there is no way to cover every electric outlet in the world. And maybe a light smack on the hand when she first started doing this would have taught her not to stick keys in holes in walls, and would have prevented the much more painful electric shock she received. A three year old will not reason, but they do understand immediate consequences for actions. And I for one would prefer a smack on the hand or butt as opposed to an electric shock or a bus that runs her over when she is running from me when I tell her to stop. |
probably not. |
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i have my own experience and my opinion. thats it. Im not going to pretend i have child psychology info at hand. my opinion that the apparent limited efficacy of corporal punishment is not worth the potential adversity. really trace, this is a personal decision to be made with you guys. have you seen evidence that spanking works? |
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We have, on rare ocassion, used the spank as a last ditch effort. We would have her clean her room. Sometimes as a routine thing that needs to be done once a week, and sometimes as a punishment for failing to do something else, or doing something she knows she is not to do. When it is used as a punishment in particular, she will not clean. I catch her setting on her bed reading, playing on the floor with her barbie, or just dancing around the room to either the radio or imaginary music. So, we would tell her "no tv until the room is done", or "if you do not hurry up, we will not be able to go swimming, which would punish all of us because you are not getting your room done", or "we will start taking away toys so you won't have so much to clean up"... Did that help? No. She even voluntarily brought us toys to throw away, or she would want Erin to cut her hair off so she did not have to brush it, etc etc etc. So, I give up, give her a smack on the butt, and the room is done **gasp** in 10 minutes, after 4 hours of threats and crying and groundings and so on and so forth. Next time, I make a move like I am getting ready to smack her on the butt, and she is done in 15 minutes instead of ten. Then all I have to do is say Hayley, you want a spank? then it might take 20 minutes. Better then the four hours of hollering and crying and threats and taking things away and so on. Oh, and the first time I saw her try the key in the headphone jack thing, I smacked her hand. Guess what? She has never tried it again. |
I was watching a show when I was in the UK, a call in program about a 'child smacking case'. Apparently a babysitter 'smacked' a kid in their care when they were naughty then the parents came home and were furious because they don't ever smack (to me the UK definition of 'smack' is yet to be fully fleshed out here). Anyway, the topic was 'do you think it was OK for the babysitter to smack the child and every caller was like 'oh yes, spare the rod spoil the child'. It was really notable because I can't imagine a bunch of people going on a national call-in show in the US saying 'Yes! Hit the kid!'. |
if my childs hand was heading for a hot stove id smack it away as well. Probably scream and holler and everything else. But see, spanking to me, as a child was a deliberate response...."im going to get my belt". Sometimes it was spontaneous, but for the most part, i knew when it was coming and the wait was the torture. id like to hear from dave and agatha what has worked and not worked with them. |
I'd like to hear from dave and agatha as well. |
I'm still not having kids |
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Sem made his brother put on that much underwear once, all over himself, and for no good reasons. |
I was helping him design a costume for his super hero identity, "Underwear Man." |
"She even voluntarily brought us toys to throw away" I realize the context, but from my not-a-mommy perspective, that is damn cute. |
with cleo, she went through a phase where she wouldn't let us put clothes on her without throwing a hissyfit. she would turn purple and kick and thrash and the tears would literally squirt out of her eyes just like in the cartoons. putting clothes on is not an unreasonable request. in fact, it's a requirement that children be clothed when they go to preschool or daycare or anywhere outside. it took a spanking to cure her of that and the threat of spanking to curb many other potential hissyfits. i think i only spanked twice. maybe 3 times and every time, i made it her choice and we discussed afterward that it would have been much better for everyone if she just cooperated in the first place. whatever, i'm just glad that it worked as well as it did because i honestly don't know where to escalate after that. i also think that, if you have to do it, do it before about 4 or 5 years old. i think after a certain point, it becomes counter-productive. kids need to know that there are consequences, that parents are indeed the boss of them, and that, if only for safety reasons, immediate obedience is required. when they're running into traffic, there ain't no time for a discussion. patrick, you'll see. |
i was reading that children need to be reminded that they are not in a democracy, but rather a benign dictatorship. |
Jesus Christ, I played hooky today and I've spent the whole day up in the attic fixing the 2 half moon windows up there. They're in really sad shape. Must've been a 110 degrees up there. I was hallucinating that I was Jody looking out at everybody with my little red pig eyes. 110 degrees and rotting wood and power tools. Nothing like it. Singin' one more job ought to get it One last shot 'fore we quit it One more for the road! |
i'm not a big fan of spanking, i don't think it works and i have horrible memories of the maybe three or four times i was spanked in my life. note to trace: do you really think your child is going to put keys in the socket ever again? my bet is no, she isn't. sometimes, a child needs to experience something for themselves to figure out why they aren't supposed to do it, as was the case with cleo running in the road. of course, this isn't a recommended path to take, but i'm betting you won't have to deal with that issue again. |
is that boz scaggs? |
do you really think your child is going to put keys in the socket ever again? my bet is no, she isn't. sometimes, a child needs to experience something for themselves to figure out why they aren't supposed to do it, as was the case with cleo running in the road. of course, this isn't a recommended path to take, but i'm betting you won't have to deal with that issue again." I would have preferred that she would have got a smack on the hand to deter her from this than have had this happen. |
do you really think your child is going to put keys in the socket ever again? my bet is no, she isn't. sometimes, a child needs to experience something for themselves to figure out why they aren't supposed to do it, as was the case with cleo running in the road. of course, this isn't a recommended path to take, but i'm betting you won't have to deal with that issue again." This cracks me up and shows that none of you understand this child of ours. Don't get me wrong, I love Micki to death and am glad that I went through what I did to have her, but she is a fearless thing. After we went through this, we talked to her about it (doing the reasoning so many of you favor) and discussed how this happened and how to prevent it. Do you want to know what she said......she told us that it hurt, but she would do it again. She did NOT learn from this experience. "She even voluntarily brought us toys to throw away" I do have to admit in retrospect it is funny, but still infuriating, because she would give us her expensive computers to throw in the trash, just so she wouldn't have to put it away, even though she spent just as much energy bringing it to me to throw away as it would have taken to put it up. From a non parent perspective, I find all of this humorous, like I do with other people's kids, but it can be frustrating when it is your own child. One thing I live by.....I NEVER EVER react out of anger or any other raw emotion when disciplining a child. NEVER. If I feel angry or upset, then I will send the child to their room so that they can think about what they have done while I cool off. Spanking is not a regular form of discipline in our home, but a last ditch effort, when other "conventional" forms of discipline have failed. When they say that every child is different, and that discipline and education for each of these children is different, the "experts" weren't joking. Sometimes I think that the girls are polar opposites. I have a drama queen and a daredevil. One who cries at the drop of a hat because she is so sensitive, and one who would tell you to fuck off and laugh in your face if you said anything to her. And people wonder why I drink. |
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That's the story behind my first word. We lived in a farmhouse in the middle of nowhere with a huge old woodstove, which I always wanted to touch. "No, honey, hot," my mother would say. And then I would wander back and try again...and she would say it again...and I would...and so on. So, finally, my dad says to my mom "Just let her do it." So they did, and I went over and touched the woodstove, and I said: "hot." And that was the end of that. I never touched the stove again. Although I think I like Nate's idea better. |
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http://www.bozscaggs.com/ |
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Did you just say that micki TOLD you she would do it again? I'm finding this all absolutely hilarious and I am in NO WAY making light of the shock or anything else she's gotten herself into. (Did I read on here somewhere that she burnt her little scalp dying her hair?). I just love stories about kids and even with my little brothers and cousins, the scariest stories make for some good laughs later on. And why does Hayley have metal keys? I don't recall having keys when I was eight though I wouldn't be surprised if my dad had given me some old ones so I could put them in my lil' purse. Again, this is not a criticism, but I'm curious and like talking about kids. Maybe she drives a camaro? |
She was begging me for keys for some reason, and I had some old ones, so I got her a little heart-shaped key ring and put them on it for her. |
I'm not so excited to be a mom, but I love kids. I get really excited to see my little cousins when I come home for vacations and holidays. Micki sounds like a tough one. My cousin Michaela who is 9 is something of a diva. She actually looks exactly like the little girl in Signs. Anyway, she broke and did quite a number on her arm recently. Apparently, she was quite a trooper, calm and such. Later, my stepfather asked her how she was and she smiled and said, "I liked the medicine they gave me at the hospital." It was morphine. Bah...kids these days. |
the latch-key kids at school. I'm sure they are the majority nowadays. Not that there is anything wrong with that to a point. |
or 13. Of course, I had to be old enough to watch my brothers. I just think she wanted to play pretend grown up. Does she have a purse to put them in? I had all kinds of crap. Yesterday, I gave my cousins all of my old plastic cards from grocery and video stores I will never see again. They were so excited |
Carry on! |
I have since hid them for a keepsake or a visual aid for Micki to use on her kids when she gets older. "this is what I did when I put keys in the electric socket".... Hayley did not keep them in a purse, she left them on the floor, despite repeated warnings that her sister was trying to stick them where they do not belong, and that Hayley needed to put them in a drawer in her dresser or somewhere her sister could not reach.... Same with her crayons. That is why my computer desk and our speakers and our stereo receiver and our walls and our TV Screen has crayon all over them. Again, failure to react on my part to remove the keys from Hayley for safety's sake |
1. Last resort (big guns) 2. Never, ever in a public place; it only furthers thier cause for attention, and provides a better "pity me" platform 3. Reduced need for this type of correction as child ages, new "oppertunities" for restrictions/groundings will present themselves as she gets more "stuff" or "priveledges". |
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that I would not have minded smacking right there in front of everyone |
Hey, kids find all kinds of flimsy reasons to hate their parents...no need to give them real ones. |
Spanking is only a last ditch effort in our house and not commonly practiced at all. Yes, Kazoointoit, she actually did say that she would do it again. Flat out. But this morning she told me that she wasn't going to "try to kill herself by electrocution" again....out of the mouth of a THREE year old kid. She wasn't saying she was trying to commit suicide, it wasn't like that, she was just trying to sound adult. It was hillarious and weird all at the same time. Your cousin sounds a lot like our little one. It might be interesting to see if our Mikayla follows in similar footsteps.... The hair dye...she didn't hurt herself, but it was red hair dye and her scalp looked like it was bleeding even thought it wasn't. The sun has finally faded all of it out, and her hair is back to it's normal color with lots of highlights from the sun. |
Our Micheala is actually six. I realized that today on my way out of Target. Anyway, YOUR Micki, Not only does she sound tough, she seems pretty smart. I know what you mean though about trying to sound adult. My cousin Meredith hated my uncle Bobby because he gave her a raspberry on her cheek and scared the poop out of her. She was rather outspoken about her disdain for him and told me once when she was about three or four, "I hate that man, I think he should be dead." Yeah, it was wierd, but I don't think she realized what being *dead* actually entailed but somehow knew that would me he wouldn't come around for a raspberry ever again. Or maybe it's a sign of a serious problem in her development. I highly doubt it though, aside from a few anxiety issues...she's friendly and sensitive and kind to all living creatures who are not uncle Bobby. |
I had a meeting with the gifted teacher at Hayley's school last year. We were looking into aspects of personality and how it relates to a childs way of learning and things like that. At two years old she just looked at me and told me that Micki is a genius, and she can't wait until she is in school, because she is already showing every personality aspect of it and advanced education, and speech patterns. I am not saying this to brag, but just to point out that I really will have my hands full with this one. |
edged sword. Not only do you have to raise a child, but the chances of the child being able to outwit you are greater. Maybe she will turn out like Encyclopedia Brown and just solve crimes. You can always hope. |
Micki is really into "rock and roll" and dancing and singing and putting on a show, so I think the best way to help put all of her "crazy energy" so to speak is to put her in dance classes and encourage this side of her. Let her perform, and get the energy out on a stage or in a class. Maybe I will be able to put her in something soon. I am looking for a way for her to focus this energy and attitude. Well, I am off for a job interview. Talk at y'all later! heheheheheheheheheheh |
1. Put heavy things in front of the outlets(you can rearange your funiture in fornt of the outlets). 2. If she is afraid of something, put it infront of the outlets, or say that it will get her(my sister is afraid of the vacume, so I say that the vacume will get her or I put it infront of an uncovered out let). |
1. Put heavy things in front of the outlets(you can rearange your funiture in fornt of the outlets). 2. If she is afraid of something, put it infront of the outlets, or say that it will get her(my sister is afraid of the vacume, so I say that the vacume will get her or I put it infront of an uncovered out let). |
1. Put heavy things in front of the outlets(you can rearange your funiture in front of the outlets). 2. If she is afraid of something, put it infront of the outlets, or say that it will get her(my sister is afraid of the vacume, so I say that the vacume will get her or I put it infront of an uncovered outlet). |
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Dodi,I happen to like Bush as he takes a real stance against homos and the other morons that want to force the western, world to become TRULY FREE...if gay people hate Mr. Bush,then only Mr. Bush can be The President.It is a good day for America. By Dodi on Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 11:22 pm: I agree with you V. No one likes gay people, something had to be done. If Kerry was president at that time, he probably would have done the same thing, what other choice did we have?? |
I think there's a lot of gay people on this site, it's very obvious, cause of the way they post. I don't hate gay people, infact, I have a few friends that are gay. I just don't like it, when they rub it in your face, like the last post, makes me want to laugh so hard. I wish people would just get a grip and grow up. |
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My uncle was gay and died of AIDS.:( |
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Why do they call you a troll V? I think the other's are trolls, cause their so rude and they try, let me state that.."TRY" to make newcomers feel unwelcomed. I'm sorry, I won't buy into that, not like I did in the beginning. I will have to admit, I didn't like it much, but now, I can't seem to leave.:):) I never regarded you as a troll, so keep posting what you post and be who you are....:) |
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A new person came here (Nichole) and they made her leave...WHY?? I don't understand. |
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