[This probably won't be of much interest to the fellas/but feel free to chime in if you have an opinion.] Have any of you ever watched that show "Fashion Emergency" on the E (Entertainment) channel? Emme/the plus-sized model hosts it. (And from the way she looks some days/she might wanna take some C.E. courses in on- camera careerwear. But I do digress...) I'm a semi-regular viewer (Mainly for the make-up tips)/& I am considering submitting my friend's name to them/along w/a very nice letter/asking that they hook her up w/a makeover. My girl in Bylkn. that I visited recenty is going thru some serious self-image problems. IMO/it's a mid-life crisis thing/coupled w/fears that she will be single forevermore (which I totally empathize with). Most of her psych problems are related to aging & health issues. She's in her early 40's & has been divorced for/what? 10 yrs. I think. (I always forget her exact age/I think she's 43.) She has no kids/a very nice apt. that she shares w/a (new) roommate (who's very cool. The last one was a bitch-from-hell.) & 2 of the fattest felines on earth (but they're both quite old). She developed a sudden case of adult- onset diatetes abt 8 yrs. ago/& ended up hospitalized in a coma for several days (I've only known her since '94). But she pulled thru & her blood sugar has been in check since she started taking insulin. Abt 4 yrs. ago/she was also diagnosed w/discoid lupus/an autoimmune disease that can be very serious. But fortunately/she hasn't had any problems w/kidney damage/arthritis/ pericadtitis/or any of the usual resultant medical problems. However/she did end up w/some very dark lesions on her back & face. The ones on her back look like acne scars & don't bother her that much. But the 2 on her face are around her mouth. I hadn't seen her in quite a while & I didn't find them that noticable when she opened her door to let me in. But she is rather self-conscious abt them. She has always had flawless/chocolate brown-skin that strangers of both sexes wd compliment her abt on the street. And she has noticed that since she developed lupus/men don't look at her in public anymore/or try to get a rap. Which she attributes to the lesions/& the fact that her diabetes has caused her to drop several lbs. She went from being athletically slender to fashion-model thin. A la Kate Moss (i.e. 'mosquito- bite tits' -- her term/not mine. And noassatall). This woman was always a snazzy dresser who knew how & where to shop. The things I dig most in her wardrobe are the one-of-a-kind pieces she always finds/like the handpainted silk overcoat she scored at a sidewalk sale years ago. And her shoe collection wd give Imedla Marcos a coronary from sheer jealousy. But she says that she hardly goes shopping now/becuz she never goes out anymore/becuz she has no one to go anywhere w/etc. Most of the stuff in her wardrobe is too big/& wd cost to much to have professionsally tailored to fit her current frame. She makes a decent living as a legal proofreader/but after 9 yrs. she's bored w/her job. She wants to move on but doesn't know what she wants to try next/& is worried abt taking a major pay-cut to become a novice in another field. She also hosts a late-nite talk show on a non-commercial NY radio station in the once a week. (She is the only Black woman hosting a talkradio show in the NY market. And no/she doesn't get paid for it/but that's still quite an accomplishment in my book.) She used to really enjoy doing her show/but for the past 10 or 12 mos. she's been complaining that she's bored w/it & doesn't consider it worthwhile anymore. And she's got the largest & best library of any human being I know! Tons of 1st editions (some of them autographed -- she has authors on her show/when she can get them to show up -- her show airs in the wee hrs.-- galley proofs/all kinds of really interesting books. She's smart & funny & wonderfully sarcastic. But she's been very depressed lately/& I think the chance to fly to L.A. (she hasn't taken a vacation in years) for a makeover & some new gear wd really do her good. BUT/I have always been a person who objects on principle to makeovers for myself. I happen to like the way I look. I know how to put on my face & get dressed up when the occasion calls for it. And I clean up quite nicely when I choose to. But I'm basically a jeans-&-sandals/or shorts & t-shirt kind of woman (becuz it's fucking HOT in FL!). I have good skin & I find that make-up generally makes me break out & look worse/so I usually skip it. Even for job interviews/all I put on is lipstick & eyeliner/maybe a little mascara if it's not too hot out. And I know I wd really resent it if someone submitted my name as a makeover candidate. But I think a makeoiver wd really do my girl a world of good. I may be a schlub/but I like myself & the way I look. She however/is very unhappy w/her appearance at present. Which I think makes her ripe for a makeover. Or am I just projecting my wishes onto her? I wd be mortified if I submitted her name/she was chosen/then ended up pissed off at me for recomending her in the 1st place. So what do you folks think? Is this another one of R.C.'s hairbrained ideas/or shd I go for it? (It has to be a surprise -- if I tell her I'm planning on doing it/I know she'll try to talk me out of it.)

Do it R.C.,help that girlfriend out,she,s seriously depressed.She will probably end up thanking you,really.

R.C., let me just say that you are a very, very sweet person. I am a man, but I have watched Fashion Emergency a number of times in the past, mostly because my wife likes it. BTW I think Emme is a lovely woman. I think you owe it to your friend to talk to her first. If she is a close friend, she will probably be very touched by your thoughts and not at all offended. You have already proven you have a gift with communication so I know you can come up with the right thing to say on your own. Write the letter to E!, then show it to your friend and tell her that you intend on sending it if she gives her blessing. Good luck to the both of you. I have a good friend whose wife has lupus. There are a lot of "if's" that go along with that disease and you really never know what's going to happen once you have it. Fortunately, she just gave birth to a gorgeous baby girl and has - knock on wood - had no negative side effects. Your friend is very lucky to have someone like you in her life.

(blushing) Thanks for all the kind words, J & H! But isn't the surprise the major point of it? If I were yr pal & I came to you & said "Here -- read this. I'm sending this letter to 'E' to recommend you for a makeover!" wdn't you be just too weirded out by that? Most people's 1st impulse wd be to reject the gesture/becuz they wd feel unworthy of all the attention. If they choose my friend/she'll have to go to LA & appear on t.v. And like me/she is an extremely private person. But if it was a fait-accompli & she'd already been selected/I wd think she'd find it nearly impossible to say no. Well... lemme see what a few more folks have to say/then I'll decide. Where's Agatha? And Sheila (who has been consipcuously absent for the past wk!). And the Magnificent Margret? And Lucy Phurre? And Swine & Nate/both of whom/I'm sure/are fashion plates in their own rights. And Markus/who will no doubt have something terribly witty to say abt the matter. And Slacker? I haven't seen him 'round these parts in a coon's age. (And like Sheila/he never posts his e-mail addr.)

R.C., empress of the known word: Write a letter emphasizing the changes in your friend's life and the depression, do not emphasize anything physical which might make her feel self-conscious or anxious at a later time. Emphasize that this is a beautiful woman, a wonderful woman, who is blue with reason, and you just want to offer her some serendipity, you just want to surprise her with joy. Even if she turns the fucking thing down, save a copy of your letter and tell her that you're thinking of her, you love her, and that it's not her body you thought would be changed by the makeover, but her spirit which, though obviously super duper tough, is human and is flagging. It is a gesture of love. Do it.

P.S. Save the letter and only give it to her AFTER the fact.

Ya think? I mean/if I send it off & she's chosen /they might contact her before they contact me. So she'd find out from them 1st. And then she might call me up & cuss me out for meddling... (Which is a big habit of mine. But onlyin the lives of people I'm close to.) Are you sure I'm not just projecting some quick-fix desire of my own onto her w/out really taking into account what's best for her needs? Doing radio is one thing. She uses her real name & all/but no no one can see you on the radio. Going on t.v. is a horse of a different feather. I'm scared that she might balk & skip the flight at the last minute/becuz she'd be afraid to be so exposed...

NO! Don't do it. TELEVISION is EVIL. If she's depressed she might think "What, you think I NEED a makeover?" Speaking as someone who's manic depressive with MAJOR body-image problems, a make-over would be HELL ON EARTH. Well, in front of the cameras anyways. Why don't you do it privately. Go down to see her and say "right it's out on the town tonight" and spend a day getting ready, go out, get hammered, have F-U-N and don't come home b4 dawn. What are you scared of RC? Would you confront your fears in front of a audience??

I agree exactly with bagpuss. do not try to put your friend on tv. I can think of nothing worse than the thought of going on tv as an example of "I am not attractive anymore, can you help me?" if you can afford a gift certificate to a private salon, that is definitely the way I would go.

See? And I was starting to think this was a cool idea! I can't afford to treat her to a day spa/makeover or the pricey clothes they hook you up w/on "Fashion Emergency". Which is why I thought of them. Becuz of the lesions on her face/ makeup is problematic for her (foundation can cause her to get radical acne). But getting a make-up artist to play up her eyes, etc./wd show her how to work around the problem & accentuate her other features. (I tried to get her to let me do her face while I was there/but she said it was "too dman hot for that shit". Which it was). But a new outfit & some fashion advice wd be right up her alley/I think. Plus/getting to see her transformed on the telly wd be my part of the fun (that show hardly ever does makeovers on Blacks/Asians etc.). And if you didn't already have a special event planned/they hook you up w/a pass to a premiere/or dinner at a cool restaurant/etc. My personal fears aren't really 'fears' per se. S'mainly that I object to the '15-min of fame' concept & the fact that in America/damn near anyone can get on t.v. w/out having accomplished anything of merit. To me/it's dumb to give up yr privacy & have yr face on t.v. over something like getting a makeover. Or being on on Montel or Jenny Jones (even the serious 'issue-oriented' shows they air.) Becuz the host/the crew/the PA's/everyone is getting paid for their time except you! Being on t.v. is all abt $$/so if you're not there becuz you did something exceptional/you at least oughta be getting a check for it/IMO. If I ever get nominated for an Oscar or a Golden Globe/then I'll go & be on .t.v.

the whole idea of a "fashion emergency" disgusts me. this is part of what's wrong in the world. this is women oppressing women.

plus, anything that requires maintenance is a drag. a makeover only lasts until the end of the day. the shit they do to women would take like, what, an hour every morning? I would hate to feel like in order to reach some level of prettiness I had once achieved on tv one day I would need to put stuff on my face or spend time with my hair. it would be a burden. I understand that you want to do something nice for your friend, r.c. I'm sure she knows you love her to death and won't be offended by anything you do. but I'm still not sure if fashion emergency is the way to go. maybe you could somehow feel her out on the subject in a phone call. like speak of someone you overheard who was thinking about getting a friend on the show. or something.

[Nate - pls. don't be fucking facetious w/me now. This is serious. My girl is totally depressed over her self-image & has been for nearly a year now. Every conversation we have/she brings up how she feels like she's nothing but a great mind walking around in a body & face that nobody looks at. Which is all abt her self-image -- not how others see her/but how SHE feels abt how she looks. So me thinking abt getting her a a makeover doesn't qualify as "women oppressing women". Capise -- You dweeb?] That might be worth a try. I'm less enthused abt this idea after hearing people's comments. But she really needs a change for the better. I just have to figure out what change might be suitable... I still need to hear from Aggie on this. But she's prolly swamped preparing for graduation & a houseful of company.

do you know how to sew, r.c.? if you did (or maybe know a family member who does), you could offer to have her cool clothes fixed up to fit her again.

R.C. - I am being FAR from facetious. Why does she have a poor self-image? I get up in the morning and get out of the house in under 20 minutes. Including eating and feeding my pets. Do I worry about other men talking about some zit i didn't cover up right or the fact that i'm wearing the same jeans i wore the day before? hell no. if i was female, however, going out of the house would mean going out under the eye of a population of hyper critical fashion nuts. my peers. the women of america. shows like "fashion emergency" are the epitome of this epidemic. what the fuck is a fashion EMERGENCY? when does anything of consequence ride on whether or not your socks match or your foundation matches your skin tone? if your girl is depressed bouy her self-esteem, for chrissakes. self-image is a product of self-esteem. tell her that it's the mind that's important. WHO THE FUCK CARES WHO LOOKS AT YOU? it's all goes back to the DON'T OBJECTIFY ME/MAKE ME AN OBJECT!!! female contradiction. no wonder ya'll get hysterectamies.

Nate, you are such a little fig pudding! I am bleaching my hair again soon. R.C., suggest she bleach her hair until it is platinum. That will look fabulous and striking against the chocolate skin you have described. Also, it opens up a whole dramatic world of makeup, just for fun. Light and shimmery eye shadow, those sparkly wierd light lip colours, and some eyeliner in silver or gold metallic. It's all about glamour. I put on makeup maybe twice a year, and once is always after I have my hair bleached, and once is always some time when I'm just down down down. The accentuation of eyes and the lightening of her hair would also draw the eye from the lesions that she is convinced everyone is staring at. And, frankly, bleaching the fuck out of my hair makes me feel like a killer futuristic replicant and puts a bounce in my step and a confidence in my smile.

if i see one more black woman with blonde hair i'm gonna be sick. what's a fig pudding? is that like a puss dumpling?

LOL! I call them Congo Blondes. .And Zulu Redheads. A brown-skinned woman w/blonde hair looks diseased/IMO. It started w/all that Ghetto Fabulous shit Andre Harrell talked Mary J. Blige into doing to her when he made her over for her 1st record promo (Andre owns Uptown Records & Uptown T.V./for those of you who don't follow things in da hood). And it's gotten iller & more extreme ever since. I got an errand to run/then I'll come back & try to explain to Nate why I still adore him/even tho' he plucks my very last nerve. (Oh yeah -- I only have a cat to feed/but I manage to get up/shower/have coffee/feed her /dress myself/& be out the door in 30 min.when I have to go to work. Sans make-up or hairdo's. Not all women spend forever in the bathroom.)

I'm with nate. There's a guy over here called Oliver James who's like the UK's "famous psychologist" apart from the fact that he's VERY GOOD. His latest book is examines the way in which our culture is putting extraordinary pressure on success and achievment to the detriment to our happiness. THE major cause of this pressure is the lowering of women's self-esteem due to the opression of the "beauty" thing. Nate's point about the force of this pressure coming mainly from women IS TRUE. How many of you know gorgeous women who have a body image problem. I know loads. In fact I can't say any of my female friends hasn't at one point said to me "God my knees/thighs/nose/arms/breasts/arse/elbows are fat/thin/crooked/straight/big/small". This is too fucked up. R.C. we know you're an independent woman of the nineties with a righteous self-image, but do you have any idea how RARE you are? It takes me two hours to get ready for work. (but mainly due to the speed I'm moving).

well do you agree that self-esteem is ....WELL...SELF-esteem, there is nothing he, she , him, her can do for one's self esteem, the person has to decide in their own mind their perception of their body. I know a girl who is 5', 85lbs, polynesian, and obsessed with her weight. I have tried to discuss it with and its a futile battle. She has a problem, what , where or how that came to be is debatable, but regardless. I could tell her she is pretty and skinny all day long but it doesn't do any good........

well do you agree that self-esteem is ....WELL...SELF-esteem? there is nothing he, she , him, her can do for one's self esteem, the person has to decide in their own mind their perception of their body. I know a girl who is 5', 85lbs, polynesian, and obsessed with her weight. I have tried to discuss it with and its a futile battle. She has a problem, what , where or how that came to be is debatable, but regardless. I could tell her she is pretty and skinny all day long but it doesn't do any good........

sorry for the double post

Ok, so the blonde idea is out. Sigh. Well, fuck it, did you get a new boom box? Cause maybe you could make her a couple of mix-tapes to cheer her up. That's what I always do for my friends. Congrats on the scores, Empress. Sigh. I don't look GOOD in blonde hair, I just like having it. Like I said, it sort of conforms to my view of myself (a fractal, of course) as a killer fembot from outer space.

Bagpuss -- nobody takes 2 HRS. to get ready for work! For a big nite on the town/maybe. Or if you're taking 2 hrs./it's becuz you read the paper before you leave the hse./rather than becuz you're in the bathroom for 90 min. Am I right? My girl T is jusy like me but older -- w/way more style & a much better CD collection. But I don't get why Nate & Bag & Waffles don't see why this is such a major problem? This isn't 'society' screwing up her head & fucking w/her self- image. It's reality-based -- men don't look at her/or try to rap to her/anymore. Becuz she's got lesions on her face & a body like an ironing board/becuz of her illness. (Most Blackfolks w/diabetes tend to be obese. But she ended up losing wt. And the lupus cd be a lot more life-threatening. So she can't really bitch abt the lesions. Her doctor ain't trying to hear it.) Nate: (And pls. don't think I'm trying to read you here. I'm just telling you abt yr life/to try & make you understand what my girl is going thru. Becuz you confessed to experiencing something similar.) AAAARRRGHHH! Hold on -- I just got a major Brain Freeze. I made my 'Ritas w/too nuch ice. They're thick enuf to eat w/a spoon/but instead I'm trying to suck them tru a straw & now my sinuses are frozen & I cant fucking type...). Okay/so Nate -- you know I've got a thing for you. And I'm only one in many. But here you are/a 25-yr-old hottie (I think he's hot/I don't care if others don't agree) w/a zany sense of humour/plenty of brainpower/more than a little old-fashioned chivalry (a rare thing in these times)/some very cool pets/a good job/& a brand new Volvo v7.0 (did ya catch him braggin' on the WAYD board?). And women on yr jock for days. Yr ex-girlfriend STILL calls you up to bitch abt not seeing you (trans: dickwhipped). You've got yr current flame/this Vietnamese damsel-in-distress. And who knows how many other Janes & Joans on the sidelines. And if I were a Cali girl & 10 yrs. younger/I'd be tryin' to hang out w/you too. Even if I had to take a number & wait in line. But remember the post you made abt that fucked-up stunt you pulled on some guy you knew from a BBS back when you were 19? You mentioned that back in yr teens/you were a dweeb. A non-cool/no-play-gettin' dork. But a few years lalter (during yr college years/I assume) you blossomed into yr very cool present incarnation. And now/all the bad times & all the rejection are just faded memories. Becuz you've got the goodies & everybody knows it. And it's good to be the king/right? Well/imagine yrself 10 yrs. from now. You've enjoyed all the perks of being a desirable male out in the marketplace for all of yr adult life. And suddenly/yr health goes haywire. You get sick/end up in a coma/spend 4 wks. in the hopsital/& come out 25 lbs. thinner w/diabetes. Then/you notice these black spots growing on yr formerly-flawless face. You can't treat them topically/becuz the lupus that caused them gives you bad reactions to Retinol & other skin meds. You can't get rid of them/short of having laser surgery (which yr insurance won't cover) & becuz you're a diabetic/yr skin is very fragile. You have to wear sunscreen year-round -- doctor's orders. So even if you decided to pay out-of-pocket/you might not be a good candidate for laser surgery. None of yr clothes fit becuz you're too thin. But you can't eat more to gain wt./becuz of yr diabetes -- monitoring yr food intake is very important. You feel like shit becuz you think you look like shit. And no matter how great a mind you have/or how fabulous a person you are/people have to look at you 1st in order to be attracted to you. And nobody of the oppostie sex is looking anymore. Women don't try to catch yr eye on the subway anymore/or strike up a conversation w/you when you're out at a street fair. And of course/yr best friend doesn't believe this/becuz she knows ou & knows you're The Glorious Natorious & thinks you're just going thru a bad phase & need to snap out of it. So she tells you to make the 1st move/be more outgoing. Walk over to some strange babe & be yr usual witty self & start up a conversation/rather than sitting back & waiting for babes to walk up to you. And becuz she's yr friend/you listen to her. And the next time yr girl calls you/you burst into tears telling her abt how you tried that day -- not once/not twice/but 3 times -- to engage strangers in conversation out in public. The 1st woman you said hi to turned her head & looked away. The second one spoke back/but her eyes were staring at the lesion on yr mouth/& the conversation died in a matter of seconds. The third chick you tried to talk to while having a smoke in front of the bldg. you work in exchanged a polite hello as she was coming out the door/accepted yr offer for a light/took one look at yr face/then proceeded to whip out her cell phone/turn her back to you/& call someone else to talk to. All in the course of a single day. That day happened to my friend abt 6 mos. ago -- but w/3 guys. She's been very depressed ever since/& I don't know what to do to help her. Which is why I came up w/the makeover idea. Which may have be stupid on my part -- but it certainly wasn't abt being 'oppressive'. And I'm NOT judging her on her looks. Neither are most women -- not a single strange woman she has encountered has treated her like a leper/the way those 3 cretins did that day. (How I wish I had kept my fucking mouth shut abt "putting yrself out there"...) But Nate -- what do you think yr lovely little life wd be like if all the women in it suddenly disappeared? And you cdn't get a single screw/phone # /or even the time of day/from a female from now on? ........................................................................... Margret -- I have no idea what yr skin tone/eye color/& natural hair color are. But if you wanna be blonde/go for it. Just do it the right way -- i.e. no home coloring kits/no cheap single- process dye jobs. Go to the best colorist in town/plunk down yr $250 bucks/& let the colorist pick yr shade. Platinum blonde only works on 1940's sex bombs -- on real women/it generally looks quite hard & makes you look old & haggard. (Remember when Julia Roberts & Gina Davis went platunum? They looked like hell. And Gena Davis is a beautiful woman.) A soft, honey blonde w/highlights & lowlights/or even a wheat blonde/are prolly as light as you shd go. But the highlighting & contrast (lowlights) are the key. And only a pro can do those right. ........................................................................... Okay people -- since the makeover idea is officially nixed/what OTHER suggestions can you offer? (And no -- I can't sew a lick. I barely manage to replace my missing buttons.) I'm tired of seeing my girl so fucking depressed all the time abt her looks/& the fact that men won't give her any play. And it's legitimately demeaning/ /becuz everybody -- Black/White/fat/thin/male /female/gay/straight -- ALL OF US want to be noticed by others/at least some of the time. You don't have to be a bimbo/or an insecure twit/to want to be considered worthy of attention. And being rejected repeatedly/for months on end/wd destroy anybody's self-esteem.

My work-friends (both of them) hairdresser is going to do me for free for her portfolio. She is very good. We talked about it already. I can't wear the honey tones because I am sallow. The gold in my hair picks up the yaller in my skin. The curse of the mongrel. Actually, with platinum hair my skin looks more "ivory" (euphemism for not-quite-white) and I have very light green eyes which look creepy with my dark hair but actually end up kind of a cool and mysterious slatey darkness to them when I am blonde. The dark tones need to be ashy; everything has to have a violet rather than the red base because of my skin color. I more sensible way to go would really be ash blonde with the occasional platinum/nordic lick and lightest ashbrown undertones, but it's all about glamour (glamour). I am a filme noir gal trapped in hippie fashion sense and Cartesian dualism; the point is that even though I know I don't look my technical best, I LOVE IT! And I am all sultry and friendly and mellow and cocktail-conversation-comfortable when I'm blonde. R.C., I'm sending you the costco picture.

I saw the pic. I take it all back. That California sunbleached bright-blonde look totally works on you. Becuz you really aren't 'sallow'. You're just not Nordic-whitegirl white. (That 'porcelain' skin only looks good on kids under the age of 10. And people like that can't take the sun at all). The only drawback is that pale blonde is very high-maintenance. You gotta get yr roots done every 6 wks. or you start looking like trailer trash. Now -- are you gonna get a funky short do to go w/yr new color/or leave it shoulder-length? (Do people ever tell you you resemble Laura Dern?)

I know I'M tired of being told that.

LOL! Okay, Markus/stop being a fool & GIMME SOME ADVICE HERE, DAMMIT! So far/it looks like I've got: 3 Pros -- J, H & Margret 2 Cons -- Bagpuss, Nate & Cyst &( Bag was really vehement/so I think maybe her vote shd count twice) 1 Waffler: Waffleboy (wd you like to cast a yea or nay vote here, dude?) I'm still waiting for Agatha & Sheila to weigh in. Oh yeah/& Swine -- but I don't think he'll be interested in this topic. And since I keep waffling myself every time I come back & read the posts/I've asked Sheila to cast the tie- -breaking vote (assuming Aggie doesn't get around to putting her 2 cents in.) I generally keep my own counsel. But I figured this was too delicate an issue to decide in a vacuum/& that I wd've made the wrong choice on my own. And I see now that I was right.

I'm bucking the consonants on this. Simply enough, I think Bagpuss (who, incidentally, is XY) and Cyst already summed it up. Though your intentions are great, this is the sort of thing that could end a long friendship if taken the wrong way by a highly sensitive person with desperate approval needs. And I gotta go with Nate's analysis on this too. And if pics are being swapped, I think it's time to start coughing them up for a general viewing. Someone with web real estate step forward, and everyone pitches a pic into the pot. (PJ's got mine, and I've been trying for days to send it to Ukrayina, but freaking AOL keeps kicking me off every time.) C'mon, it'll be just like in Mrs. Schmedlap's first grade class, where everyone had their picture on the bulletin board. Ah, the good old days.

hey. margret. if light-green eyes look creepy with dark hair, they look creepy in a really fucking good way. like that famous national geographic cover of that girl from who-knows where. striking. green eyes and dark hair are a very rare and wonderful combination. not that I have any idea what you look like or anything. and maybe you'll look great as a blonde. and if that's what you want to do, that's definitely what you should do. but I can't imagine anything looking better than light-green eyes and dark hair. and fake blond is high-maintenance (unless your hair grows really slow). lucky you.

I've got buckets of Free webspace. In two weeks I'll have buckets of free webspace and a killer URL so I might (depending on time and talent) do a proper Sorabjians website. Speaking of which, any writers out there who want an "artists' collective" webspace to put up your stories, then watch this space. Send us your pics [with names] and I'll put 'em up in the next week or so. Why does EVERYONE think I'm a woman? Sheeit. It would be a compliment if I wasn't SO fucking single.

Oh, and has Markus got THE biggest brain on the planet or just the second or third?

i think your friend is clinically depressed, for whatever reasons, and needs to be treated for that. with brain-chemistry altering (prescription) substances, in which i have ultimate faith, from my personal experience. if she is skinny with no ass, that sounds great to me. marks on her face, we all have marks on our faces, and at 43 it is just beginning. not having men scope you, there comes a day when you realize you aren't that foxy anymore, whether or not you have some disease to blame it on. if she is all those other things, then wanting to be beautiful as well is just plain greedy. a woman with her own radio show, lots of books, fat cats and close friends who care is not on the critical list. and why are you always feeling someone else's pain, Ms. Fixit? don't have enough of your own?

R.C. -- I am wavering on the hair length issue. I figure I leave it shoulder length for a month or so, then decide when I get the roots touched up if I want to hack it all off, too. I have a haircut I want, but I don't know the name of the boy who has it so I don't know how to get shots of his head. He was in "The Faculty" and played Jamie Lee Curtis's son in "Hallowe'en H2O." His facial bone structure is similar to mine so I think I could pull it off. I have pictures of me, Sarah, and Nate. I also have web space. What I don't have right now are the appropriate graphics programs loaded. Oh, I also have a pic of Mark snagged from the Office Cam. Let me talk to my housemate the Salma Hayek obsessed troll and maybe he will help me load up Fractal and Adobe and (the most difficult part, really) get my goddamned pen-mouse working. Noone has ever told me I look like Laura Dern, though once someone told me I looked like Diane Lane's smarter and less pretty cousin. Oh, and the Girl on the Famous National Geographic Cover was from Afghanistan.

rc, no no no no. don't do it. she needs help beyond a makeover. i happen to agree that shows like fashion emergency make women look bad in general, but whatever floats your boat. however, i think your friend needs something different than a makeover on tv. i think she would probably be horrified. then again, i don't know her, so what do i know.

If you all don,t think R.C.,s friend should get that make-over will you hook me up?My hairs a mess.Check out this make-up called Covermark,it will do the trick.

J: T tried Covermark & Dermablend. They both look totally phony when you see the person up close. (She put on some Dermablend for me to see while I was there). They're both basically heavy pancake make-up w/special skin primers you have to use before applying them. They feel thick & heavy & grossly unnatural. Sheila: I live a simple, placid (i.e. boring) life. I imagine yr bucoclic environs make for a very placid existence as well -- but you've got the geese/random murder victims/& the local meth heads to keep things interesting. I can't tolerate a lot of drama & don't allow drama-inducing folks into my world. I have some issues that sometimes keep me up at nite/but they are few. And I also look at T as a future version of myself -- i.e. what's happening to her cd also happen to me in a few yrs. So it pays to pay attention. But I have to TOTALLY disagree w/you on the 'get her on meds' recommendation. She's been in therapy in the past (& plans to start again next wk.)/but always w/out pharmaceuticals. All I can say is that when it comes to psychotropic drugs/there are 2 kinds of people in the world: Those who happily jump on the band wagon/& those who don't want to have their legitimate emotional responses to the world medicated away. T & I are 2 of the latter. There are some diseases (schizophrenia/bi polar disorder/etc.) which produce such severe symptoms that a person cannot function w/out meds. And I have no problem giving those folks the drugs they need. But depression/when it's precipitated by a real event or situation in one's life/doesn't qualify as a condition requiring meds in my book. Think abt it -- you walk into a psychiatrist's office & start talking abt how lonely you are. How hard it is to come home an empty hse. in the big city w/no one but a couple of cats to greet you. How unfair it seems/becuz you are a more-than- decent person & you see all kinds of creeps & cretins (O.J. Simpson/Lyle Menedez/that crazy woman from 2B who's always drunk & singing at the top of her lungs...) who are NOT alone. They have a lover/or at least companionship. You do not/& it creates a hole in yr soul that nothing else will fill. Becuz none of us were meant to live our lives alone. But some of us do... You have so much love to give & no one who wants it. And the worst part of all is that there's nowhere to go w/that loneliness! There are no support groups meeting twice a week to give people a place to talk abt their incredible hunger for love & acceptance & companionship. Esp. if you are a mature, educated woman -- society has taught us that it's 'wrong' for us to feel bad abt being alone when we have degrees & jobs & interests & can pay our own way in the world. T *shd* be depressed/considering what's happened to her! But I don't think she shd be medicated in order to push away those feelings -- becuz they're legitimate. She agrees (we talked abt it while I was there). And Sheila -- 43 is not so old that a woman shd be expected to throw in the towel & forget abt ever having a sex life again! I'm very disappointed that you wd be so cavalier. I'll bet you were a total babe at 43 -- & loved every minute of it! You're however old you are now/& still scoping out sexy bras to buy for yrself. So don't tell me that after a certain age/a woman's emotional need to feel attractive -- for herself or for a man -- is supposed to just politely roll over & play dead. That's crap/& you know it. And T was never a great beauty. She was & still is a woman w/a very striking appearance/a very angular beauty (you cd slice a loaf of bread on her cheekbones) that is intriguing & intimidating at the same time. And she didn't lose her looks gradually over time/as part of the normal aging process -- which is something we all endure & gratefully/have time to adjust to. She literally woke up one morning w/these lesions on her face/then watched them get larger & darker over time. So she isn't some Liz Taylor-type who was once a celebrated beauty & can't accept the fact that her looks are long gone. She's a better-than- avg.-looking woman who still looks good -- except for those 2 lesions. And she can't understand why men can't see anything else bat her but the marks on her face. Which frankly/I don't understand either. But I promise you all/I won't send her name to Fashion Emergency.

who is it that cannot see anything else? better living through chemistry: it can change your world. you don't even have to want to change. ok, i didn't cave in to gravity until i was 83, but that is not the point. and the bra is for structural engineering, not sexual attraction purposes. jesus herbie christ, do i have to send you all a picture of my naked meatmobile, or is that just a passing fad?

p.s. there is absolutely nothing wrong with rolling over and playing dead.

because I was an ugly duckling and in high school only like two or three guys ever asked me out, I got real used to the idea that I was never going to have sex and that I was just going to have to enjoy having platonic friends and maybe somehow someday trick some smart guy who prefers svankmeier to spielberg into liking me because of my relatively (to other girls at my high school)large vocabulary. or something. so I had myself convinced that it completely did not matter to me if men found me physically attractive or not. (it's what's inside that matters, etc.) then I moved out of the suburbs to the bright lights big city and found that grown-up men didn't care as much about upholding the blonde-white-blue-petite-submissive ideal of womanhood. and did some semi-evil shit involving making seattle men pay for portland-suburb boys' former meanness/inattention to me, but that's another ridiculous story. so, anyway, after I learned that dates aren't just for cheerleaders anymore, I still believed that I didn't really give a fuck whether I was attractive because I only wanted to go out with guys who were interested in me for my personality anyway. but then one day I realized that I am afflicted with that terrible personality flaw common to most american women. no, women all over the world, I think. I found out that I cared. a lot. I babysat for a friend for a couple hours and carried her eight-month-old around in the trendy district where she was staying. and it was startling to me, no, ok, I was fucking horrified, that no one, NO ONE, was checking me out. I know that my looks are of a strange type that only certain people find attractive, but it's a large enough segment that I can probably consider myself lucky. with the baby in tow, it wasn't exactly as if I had put on a cloak of invisibility, because the baby was an absolute cherub, and some people would look at him, then smile at me because of him. but I knew that no cute curly-haired bakery boy was going to be asking me out this day. now, why should I care if guys check me out when I walk past the sidewalk cafes? I shouldn't. but I do. I hated carrying this beautiful child around, and I wished I had a big sign that said, "I'M ONLY BABYSITTING!" this sucks. a lot. I wish to god I didn't give a fuck. what can I do to stop caring?

heroin.

I don't care that much about not caring. maybe it doesn't matter so much that I care as long as it doesn't affect me to the point where I start regularly wearing makeup, women's clothes or shoes I can't stomp through puddles in.

i'm working from home today and watching the jenny jones show while i finish these monthly reports. today she's showcasing these people who were ugly ducklings in school but have later bloomed into "beautiful people". all the women look kind of miserable. when you've reached the point where you think you need fake tits, meticulous make-up jobs and wear stilleto heels everyday, then you've reached the point where you care too much. and these women don't really look attractive. they look like female caricatures.

I am waffling on your dilemma RC, it's taken me 20 minutes to catch up on this thread since Friday and I am at work , so I don't exactly have an opinion. i have green eyes and dark brown hair, I didn't realize it was considered a rarity "green eyes and dark hair are a very rare and wonderful combination."

green eyes look especially beautiful on people with dark hair. I think it is a somewhat unusual mix. I smoked out with some peace corps hippies last night and walked around stoned till 4 a.m. and tried to figure out who the democrats' candidate for president was in 1968 (hubert humphrey). I could only remember that the guy was from minnesota; my friend could only remember that he was a labor supporter and that his dad had really liked him.

i stayed at home, cleaned, cooked for my wife while she read a book al day, spent a few hours at the dark room and smoked my self straight, oh yeah and caught a few episodes of star trek and x files......i have only been told my eye/hair combo was unique by a gay man so i took it for whaty it was worth, i have been told at times my eyes change to a light shade of blue, but this was in high school and i hate dropped a hiut of acid so i am still unsure though

i stayed at home, cleaned, cooked for my wife while she read a book al day, spent a few hours at the dark room and smoked my self straight, oh yeah and caught a few episodes of star trek and x files......i have only been told my eye/hair combo was unique by a gay man so i took it for whaty it was worth, i have been told at times my eyes change to a light shade of blue, but this was in high school and i hate dropped a hit of acid so i am still unsure though

My eyes are blue-green and any time I ever did acid(wayyyy too much,I sometimes think,when I can think)My pupils were one black pool.

I have black eyes naturally, so they never do anything interesting like change color. They're flat black, irises indistinguishable from my pupils. I used to dislike them, until the day I was told they look like two bulletholes. I think that's the coolest complement I've ever received.

i thought that said "buttholes"

woah. spider has flat black eyes. my eyes change color when i'm pissed. they turn yellow. i am a demon, child i carry fire where ever i go and i will burn your soul... otherwise they are just hazel. on the green side of hazel. i bic'd my head. people have been complementing me on my skull shape. "you have a nice shaped head" otherwise my hair is dark brown. whenever i did acid and looked in the mirror, my skin was dark red and my horns showed. little stubs. like the roots of antlers, perhaps. i need to rut. i'm going to go dig a hole, fill it with my own urine and ejaculate, and roll in it.

what a novel idea Nate, do you prefer this practice at the foot of large Oak trees? I like to gnaw of the roots, they are sweet and chewy

you got it.

Finally got my shit together to actually read more than 1 or 2 threads (and this appears to have developed into more than 1 or 2 threads, in and of itself). A. R.C. there is no absolute good or evil. There is only what is good for an individual and what is bad for that individual. None of us knows this woman, and maybe a makeover would make her feel good, and maybe it wouldn't, but you would be better qualified to judge that than any of us would. Maybe physical beauty is superficial and, in some nebulous way, caring about it is wrong, but the truth is, if she's upset about it, and you want to help her, you should probably start by helping her to feel good about it. I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you think it would make her happy, go for it. If you don't think it would make her happy, don't do it. If you think makeovers are evil because they reflect an attitude that is somehow fundamentally wrong, go with whatever would make her happy anyway. 2. As for medication...abso-fucking-lutely not. Your friend is not clinically depressed, she is causally depressed. The way to treat causal depression is to deal w/ the cause. One of the problems with managed care is that they medicate for causal depression, and for general unhappiness caused by generally unhappy situations. (They also medicate kids for any deviation from the norm, whether or not it is genuinely pathological. My opinion on Ritalin is another rant for anouther day, though) I think that the heavy dependence on medication is one of the worst things managed care has done to the mental health field. They medicate people b/c it's cheaper than treating them (My mom's in the mental health field and she's pretty upset with managed care, as is everyone who wants to make people better) 3. My eyes are hazel/ sort of multicolored. They change colors a little, too.

I agree totally w/you on #2. So does T/so Prozac/etc. are OUTof the question. And while I wd never let someone send me for a makeover/I don't think they're inherently 'bad' /per se. As I've said/I like my looks & know how to get all dolled up when required. But there are women who have a "fashion emergency" every time they suddenly find themselves invited out to a black-tie event & realize they have no evening wear in their closets/except that bridemaid's dress from their sister's wedding 2 years ago. Those are the women "Fashion Emergency' usually features. And they also makeover quite a few guys -- who all look a LOT better afterwards. One of them was a Playgirl centerfold. Gorgeous -- but all he owned was jeans & t-shirts. When they put him in a jacket & some nice pants/he was to-die-for! But that's the case for most of the guys. All their makeover entails is getting them to lose the ratty beard or the ponytail/a good haircut/& a new suit.) I honestly can't say for sure if I think T wd be insulted by the gesture or not. So I think I'm better off being safe than sorry. And I tell her every time we talk that she's a terrific person & shdn't give a shit of men don't take the time to notice her. But I also know that if I were in her shoes/I wdn't be tryin' to hear that noise either. Loneliness & rejection are a bitch/& that's a patronizing response/no matter how well-meant.

Hey RC, i have waffled enough on this issue, instead of surprising her by parading her on TV, just take her out one saturday afternoon and go to the saloon for nails/massage/hair/foot rub/bikini wax/ or the omni spa (whatever the hell that is, my wife goes every couple of weeks and seem to make her feel good) or anything else that might make her feel good without the stigma of being on television.....WHEW!!! that was winded. My wife, a friend and I once bluffed for the Rolanda Show. We had mapped out a story one evening over merlot, rails and many a cigarette. We decided that "he was my best man but he was bangin my wife and he wanted to come out on the show" and i was gonna freak on his ass and start a fight. This was about 5 years before Jerry got really big and the producers called us back wanting to fly us up in 3 days and we chickened out..anyway thats my two cents... ps if you chop up Ritalin and snort, it is VERY much like coke......its the devil i tell ya....gov't wants to keep us high.

LOL! Snorting Ritalin -- you're a fool! If I had the $$ I wd treat her myself. But I don't. And the fact thet E! flies you out to Cali or NY/takes you to some swank shop/& has a fashion consultant work w/you to pick out a beautiful outfit (& you get to keep it) was a big reason for my considering submitting her name. (It wd have been a mini-vacation for her as well.) I don't have the broomstick-body problem/& I have no idea how to dress her to minimize her thiness & lack of curves. *sigh* Short of conjuring up some fabulous guy to take a shine to her/I don't know what to do to help her thru thus. It's becoming a vicious circle -- men ignore her/so she feels unattractive/so she puts off a negative vibe/which makes men ignore her....

I,m still working on how to cover up with make-up,Jimmy Sue better get back to me soon,I,m getting pissed.

Covermark,and derma-blend was all he could come up with,what a drag.

RC, your friend sounds like a wonderful person going through a really hard time. I have to disagree with you on the meds though, as I found it really helpful to break the cycle of depression, and get past the cause of it. While I was depressed, I just couldn't see any other way of doing things, to get out of the situation that had got in that state to start with. I didn't stay on the meds for more than six months, but during that time I was able to sleep again, and analyse my situation, then make some choices to change where I was at. I honestly don't think I could have done that without the meds, because my mental state was such that I couldn't think straight. Your friend sounds like she is in a similar situation. I hope that her therapy helps her to see the good things in her life again. Maybe she could talk to her doctor about gaining weight and keeping her diabetes under control. It is possible, but she needs some nutritional advice to get her on the right track. I can empathise about the facial lesions, as I get exzema on my face from time to time, and every time I look in the mirror it is the first thing I see. I also hate wearing makeup, and apart from the exzema, my skin is really good. I am lucky though, because my husband knows me, and it takes more than some ugly marks on my face to scare him off! Your friend should maybe not worry so much about trying to meet strangers, but hang more with people she knows. It is amazing how much more confident you can feel when you are in a group of friends, and a confident attitude is far more attactive to most people than pure physical beauty. (I speak from experience) Anyone who gets to know her will quickly realise that her wit and intelligence are far more important than some marks on her face.

Thanks, NZ. {{And welcome back!}} But the big factor here that differentiates you from T is that you've already got a husband who values you for who you are. My question is: Did you meet him before you had yr exzema problems/or after? T just can't seem to meet a man who's willing to see past the lesions on her face. Or her rail- thinness (Which is a cultural issue as well. Brothers tend to prefer their women a bit 'thicker' than societal standards dictate. Esp. when it comes to legs & ass.) And sure/*I* think the guys who are blowing her off are assholes anyway/so no great loss there. But I'm not the one getting blown off/y'know? Hopefully/therapy will help. But frankly/I don't see how. If she were 300 lbs. & complaining to a therapist abt men not giving her the time of day/the therapist wd eventually have to tell her "Listen -- you need to do something abt yr weight. It's a health issue/as much as an appearance issue." But short of laser surgery (& I did tell her to at least go for a consultation w/a reputable plastic surgeon)/I don't think she can get rid of the lesions. And I don't know if she's spoken to her doctor abt trying to gain weight safely. Ultimately/her issue is that all this physical b.s. shdn't matter. She's the same person she always was/& she shd get the same attention from men. But I didn't make men the way they are/& neither did she. So I'm kind of at a loss at this point...

Prozac would also take care of the seeking attention from men, which seems to be the real hugh problem here. It takes away your libido, so you just don't care. If you are depressed, it doesn't matter why. Being depressed for a good reason doesn't feel any better than being depressed because of brain chemistry or unresolved issues, nor is it more noble or fixable. Why would anyone not want to feel better? Ask yourself.

Why wd 'just not caring' feel 'better' than being legitimately depressed? Why is being an emotional zombie preferable to being depressed? She has no suicidal ideation or anything. She's just unhappy becuz she still likes men & wants one to take an interest in her. If she had a lost a child or a spouse or a parent/no one wd think she needed to be on drugs. But becuz she's depressed from loneliness/she shd be medicated? God forbid anyone shd admit to being lonely in this society! People wonder why their kids are out getting stoned/when everywhere we look adults are popping a pill to alter their mood. Some people prefer to actually experience their emotions/rather than medicate them away. And if she met 1 decent guy who cared abt her for who she is/she wdn't have this problem I repeat: T's NOT abt taking meds. And w/her diabetes/that's probably the wisest choice. There's no telling what Prozac might do to her coupled w/her insulin shots.

First point: I was actually responding to Nate when I talked about no good & evil...my point was...don't worry abt. whether it's good for society...your only concern should be whether it's good for her. #2 Prozac is bullshit. It's the dream of the Victorians made flesh...instead of repressing your unpleasant/ socially unacceptable emotions, just pop a pill and they'll all go away. Bullshit. It's like fucking Huxley... "A gramme is better than a damn" Bullshit. The following is a lengthy self-indulgent digression on my experience with the evils of medicating people. Skip it if you so desire. I have rather strong feeling abt. medicating b/c they insisted on putting me on pills for ADD, which, btw, went away after I got rid of the television, and I wanted to be taken off at the beginning of High School, but my grades dipped...I told them they'd go back up & better they dip at the beginning of HS than at the end, when I hit 18 & you can't make me take these fucking things anymore. (& no, I couldn't fake taking the pills, my mother is a mental health professional) Anyway, middle of Junior year, the Ritalin started fucking w/ me. Senior year, they wanted to put me on Dexedrine. I was a merit finalist at the time. I told them, if you put me on Dexedrine, it'll fuck w/ me, my grades will drop, I'll lose the Merit Scholarship, end up going to some awful state school and eventually just stop coming to class...which is exactly, to the letter, what happened...the dexedrine also made me violently psychotic, or so they tell me, I don't remember...(which, btw, is why I don't do speed)On the upside, however, now that I'm not on all these fuckin' pills, I am a damn good secretary (having defeated what my mother told me would be a crippling organizational learning disability) and will be going back to school soon. There is no way I could have learned to cope, developed those skills, while the pills did it for me...I had to learn how to focus, I was passing out in class when they took me off the speed, b/c it takes energy when you don't know how, but speed treats the symptom.. you have plenty of energy when you're tweaking. In conclusion, it's bullshit.

I must admit, I didn't have marks on my face when I met my husband, but I do have a misshapen body thanks to Scoliosis and Spina Bifida Occulta (thankfully only the bones were affected and I can walk etc), which I was very self conscious of. My mother always made a point of emphasising the good points of my body when she complimented my appearance, and didn't make a big deal about my crooked back and short neck. Consequently, I got over my fears about my body shape, and met someone really special. Our relationship started mostly with phone conversations (hours long) and developed from there. My point is that who she is hasn't changed, only the way she looks. I know how hard it can be to go out when you feel so down, but I would definately encourage her to get out and live her life. I am sure that when she least expects it someone will sweep her off her feet, because she sounds like a fantastic person.

we all choose our drugs. and we don't criticize the choices of others. to find anyone on this thread who claims to abjure the use of drugs/medication is the epitome of hipocrisy.

R.C.,I wouldn,t want to argue with you if my life depended on it,I think you could argue with Jesus Christ and come out the winner.But,coming from a former skinny tall gal,men like skinny legs,skinny as my legs are,I,ve had strange men come up to me and tell me I had more legs than a bucket of chicken.And as for prozac,my sex life is fine,wayyy better than most,and I feel O.k.

Lucy: Thanks for that story. But others will say that for everyone like you/there are millions of kids that Ritalin has helped. (Don't EVEN get me started on America's crusade to drug our kids into good behavior... But I've also seen some ADD kids that wd make yr teeth curl. So I don't know what I'd do if I had one...) So you're damned if you do or don't. But I'm glad you were able to get it together once you came off the meds. NZA: Thats YOU for those words. It's really hard to hold onto hope. But if I can think of a way to pass some of that hope on to T/I will. *sigh* Sheila: I think you know me well enuf to know that I like drugs & have done my fair share of them. Esp. the liquid kind. But you can't compare getting high on the weekends to a daily dose of mood-altering Rx meds. Some of which people take for the rest of their lives. Which means they aren't getting 'well'. Depression/IMO/isn't a mental illness unless it's a crippling, clinical depression w/no real-life triggers. I think I wd prolly feel at lot better if I were on Prozac! But I know I wdn't be myself on Prozac. And I know I won't have the blues forever. So I find other ways to cope w/those feelings. J: Some folks'd say that my 'argumentativeness' wd drive Jesus to drink gin straight from the cat's dish. But thanks. 'More legs than a bucket of chicken' is a strange compliment. I'll bet he was a Southerner.

yes i can compare them. when you are never going to get well, having never known what well is, it's okay to not be yourself. your self is not necessarily a desirable state. some of us have defective selves and have to fake it till we make it, or die. anything that makes it easier, anything, because there is no payoff and no glory in suffering or enduring or inflicting ones self on others. with psychotropic drugs, you have a choice where before you didn't know choices were available. some people are born depressed, like some people are born stupid or evil or vacant. and, if you have defective children, you should do anything you can to fix them. give them drugs, send them away so they don't have to be near you, kill them slowly or quickly. straighten their teeth, nourish their bodies, accessorize them well, experiment with their little brains using chemicals or religion. best of all, don't have them, and if they are ADD affected, make sure they are not in my sphere. consider how bad you must feel to have zombieness, zombism, zombiety the lesser of evils. way less. plus, i think real zombies are unaware of it, but i don't know for sure.

did i just say "real zombies"? not exactly what i meant, but you get it, right?

Girl I hear you loud and clear!I was hyper when I was a kid,which is why besides me coming out butt first,my mother hates me.My son was bouncing off the walls and my pediatrition was more than willing to hook me up with rittelen,but my husband 86,d it,and I ended up a nervous wreck.I had no support or controle around here for so long,that my spawn could have been the poster children for birth-control.