okay, okay...now i am not wanting to be like the girl who cried wolf, but... i want to find a school. and i can't seem to find any sites that speak to me as a person as an artist as a fuck up. i am looking for shady and good art schools in chicago, il. i have this guess that is where i should go. (all part of my master plan to go back to nyc.) atlanta proved non-confrontational. i am looking for some suggestions as to: a) sites to find college lists b) names of any art schools in the chicago area c) any information on public transportation and employment opprotunities in the city. as i do this time and time again, i am figuring out the process to follow. while planning is not my strong suit. i know that ihave a goal to do it (school) and soon. any help would be fab.

hey kym, if i may be blunt..... your intentions seem kinda scatter-brained. If you are looking to get into any art school you need a portfolio. I am sure you know this. There are several art schools in Atlanta. There is the Art Institute, The American College of Art and a few other exclusive private art schools, of whose names i forget. Art schools are extremely tough and expensive. They have thousands of "artists" knocking at their door, you really have to get an edge for them to notice. Perhaps you should settle in on onee place for a 2 years, get to know the town, do your art, whatever it may be, build a portfolio, meet people, other artists. Whatever you art may be, perhaps dive into a community college for a semester or two and just do it. It's difficult to accomplish much if you are always dealing with moving, a paycheck and so on. I say this because i have numerous friends in your boat and I too was a little scatter-brained for a while, until i finally honed in and hunkered down and did some work, and it's proving successful. Paid photo gigs are here. It's all about the work, not the school. If schools are giving you a hard time, self education is never a bad thing.

patrick... <sigh> i can't disagree. you are a beacon of reason within the clouds of my dementia. i went and talked to a lady at atlanta college of art. she had very supple lips. a slight lisp when she talked. i have absolutely no idea what i am doing. if i could get paid to just be like i am now. i would be content. just doing the things i do and someone subsidized it or something. she didn't look at me funny, but told me how it works, and what i should do. i think i only have this desire to go to school. but i don't want to go and spend 4 years doing something that doesn't ultimately interest and encompass me. self study seems like a route i am interested in taking, but i question how on earth people will take me seriously. i have no idea on the ratio between with and without degree productivity. i think that is what has started making me eat my feedback. i have had it beaten in to my brain that with a degree you have better chances. but no school can teach me how to dream or how to create. i don't need a school to teach me that. but will someone look at me and my work and go "yeah, it totally looks like you don't know what you are doing, and you have never done this before." and how do i get to do instilations as a "fake folk artist?" or just slap a performance art sticker on it and book a show at a club. yes...yes..the peices fall into place once i start freeform typing about it. must zip off now.

I hate to say it, Kymical, but get a degree. Even if you just mark time at the actual instituion, and do your own thing outside of school, get the degree.

fuck a degree. no offense dougie, but you are a few years older than and i and your generation had that impounded into your heads that degrees = success, which is crap. i don't have a degree, i did some college at UNC in Greensboro, dropped out and have in the last year or two taken a few photo classes at the local community college. In regards to art anyway, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE WORK YOU SHOW NOT THE DEGREE I suppose if you wanted to be a chemist or docotor sure the degree is impreative, but when it comes to art, be it writing, photographing, painting, music or whatever, just do it and talk to others, meet those you admire, hang around others read on your own, experiment. Take what you want and go with it. At the community college i have only taken the classes i wanted to and got what i needed, when i was at the University right out of high school i had no idea what i needed, now i do, and i suspect you probably are getting close to truly knowing what you want and need. do not concern yourself with how people will take you, thats not important right now. just impress yourself an others will follow. when i show my work to people, they never ask, where did you go to school, all that matter to them is the image i give them. Same for writing, music and any other art field. "and how do i get to do instilations as a "fake folk artist?" or just slap a performance art sticker on it and book a show at a club." dear, you are focused to much on the end result. Right now, its time to work, work work work, create, produce, and make. Do not worry about how it will be booked, perceived or labeled. jsut shut up and get to it already eh? coming to atlanta next thursday, unfortuantely i won't have much time, however, i will be bar hopping friday night with some longtime pals of mine........perhaps i could buy you a beer we expect to hit these places in no particular order.....MJQ, Stein Club, Yacht Club, Red Light Cafe perhaps some other place if there is any bands worth seeing on that might. I am catching up after a three year abscence....I WILL BE HELL BENT FOR ONE NIGHT

Resume1 -- Education: High School Graduate. Resume2 -- Education: Masters in Fine Arts, Art Institute of Chicago. Employer -- Uhhh, jeez, this is a tough one. Let me go with the High School Grad.

My husband graduated with distinction from A.S.U.,bachlor of science,went on to John Marshall for about two weeks.Between the commute and all the homework,he just said fuck it.Now he,s an engineer,go figure.Personally I wish he would have been a lawyer,that would sure come in handy about now.I graduated from the school of Hard Knocks.I get by,Dougie do you live in Chicago?

Nope. Went to Northwestern for a couple of years though.

an artists resume, in the traditonal sense is irrelavent, they look at porfolios, they look at the work. The talent one possess's has nothing to do with a degree or how much one spent on their art school and decision makers in the art realm realize this. Sure it's helpful to have it, but it's not a determining factor.

OK, and don't take this the wrong way anybody, I'm not saying this is going to happen -- just playing devil's advocate, but what if Kymical decides she hates being an artist in 20 years, she's given it her all, less talented people have gotten recognition and shows and money because of whom they know whereas she's gotten the shaft, and she wants out. She's 40, no degree, and a lot of resentment. 4 years spent after high school getting a degree even in art school might have come in handy getting work somewhere in something as opposed to asking people if they want fries with that. Like I said, just mark time while you're there, get the degree and do your real thing outside of class.

Kym--if you think you agree with Dougie, look for a liberal artsish kind of school with no grad. requirements, so you _can_ take what you want to take, including lots of art classes and so on and so forth. Or you can ignore him entirely, which is what I would do.

Kym, find a four year liberal arts college with a fairly progressive art department. Use the four years (or indeed, just the time you stay) to build a portfolio. Get hooked up with internships every semester/summer they're available to keep you interested. Or you could move to Baltimore and go to the Maryland Institute or D.C. and go to the Corcoran. If you went either of those places I could recommend people and places to you. I do suggest at least STARTING school because colleges always have cool things available as options, like semesters at sea, etc., semester in St. Andrews, things like that. Johns Hopkins owns like buildings in Italy and shit.

what do you do when you are creative. like what would be a good fall back on thing to do? i have been pondering this. like what if i really don't need to be an artist. what if i just decided to live a lie. do something very boring. where i sit in an office and type on the keyboard, answer a phone, go to a meeting. you know a real straight gig, yeah. how do you break into that field? on today's agenda, painting and sculpture. i cleaned the apartment for this opprotuniy. oh and look, my temp agency says i don't have to go to work today...how nice.

Idea: Go to school. Somewhere. Go to a liberal arts school and do art and throw in other classes _if you feel like it_. Margret made a good point--that many have options like studying in Italy. Some colleges have field work terms, where you go out and do stuff, which would get you great connections. Plus, you can meet people neat people who might be able to give you a leg up later on. You don't seem like you'd be too happy in an office gig. They're miserable to begin with, and I think you'd have more fun doing you rown thing and not having a 9-5er. Maybe that's just me.

So when I mention it, you'd ignore me, but when a female proposes it, go for it? Flip Flop polF pilF

who flip flopped? not me. i am just absorbing it.

Yup. Because origionally Kym didn't sound as much into the idea of going to a more conventional school, and in the post she made just before me, she sounded like it was more of a possiblity. There are a lot of pro and con points for going to school. For one, you sounded like you were adviing her to get a degree in something she wasn't particularily interested in (or I misread you), and Margret and I were advising her to go and study artish type things. In fact, I probably wouldn't go to school if I was in her place. However, I thought that to point out a way to go to school and study/do what she likes (fieldwork, or study abroad programs), she could find a nice balance. I'm not particularily degree worshipful. I don't think it's a needed thing. If Kym decided it was, I don't think it would be any fun to go to a mainstream school that makes you take a lot of boring core classes. So nyah.

ym--I think he was addressing me. Admittedly, my posts do have two contrasting views. But one is personal (the first) and the other is an _idea_ which appears to have been lost on Dougie-fresh. (Note "idea" disclaimer). I'm not allowed to posit several solutions to one problem?

Get a degree in something in the liberal arts that has many applications, like Communications or Scientific and Technical Communications ( which is a kick ass degree to have, because it allows you to do many things, such as graphic design, web design, etc...). It seems to me that Dougie's basic idea was to have something to fall back on, or something that will let you get jobs, not necessarily as an artist, that will allow you to pursue art AND eat at the same time! Joy! Plus, college is fun. The best years of your life, for some.

Isolde, you can posit as many solutions as your heart desires. It's just that you said "...you can ignore him entirely, which is what I would do" meaning you wouldn't go to school. And then you said, "Go to school. Somewhere." Also, I had mentioned a degree from a school which I don't even know if it exists (Masters in Fine Arts, Art Institute of Chicago) which seemed like what Kymical had mentioned she was interested in -- art schools in Chicago. Not trying to have an argument here with you.

Here you go, Kymical: http://content.careers.msn.com/comm_cel_9905_liberalarts.html

Sorry. It did kind of look like I was going back on what I said. Not quite the case.

hey patrick... like a statement from way back... i won't be in town when you are i am afraid. i leave for the "southern tour" on thursday. yeah, can anyone tell how ready i am for this? they have been holding my cello for ransom for crissakes!