i am a shy girl, blah blah blah. this shy shy shyyyyyy (maybe even shyer than me) guy who i used to talk to at school has been talking with me on email lately. yaay he's so nice, so i finally admitted that i have a crush on him. he thought that was nice & cute. since we've been emailing eachother we've gone to 2 movies & watched a video together... now he's coming up to visit me at school for the weekend... like overnight & everything! nothing's really ever happened between us 'cept for ONE kiss (not even on the mouth)... i mean, nothing's going to happen this weekend, is it? i mean, we're both too shy. but maybe i want it to, i don't know. in my ROOM... valentines day pyjamas that i bought today i know that none of you are psychic, i'm just a little nervous & i'd like someone to say something like "don't worry, it'll be okay... you're a gooood giiiirl. now just get some rest & have fun". .·:*¨hee hee¨*:·. awwwwww.

if you have to ask if anything's gonna happen, it probably won't. poor guy. unless you're easily persuaded.

enjoy whatever you do together. Hopefully he is one of us elusive nice guys, if so, you may want to think about reeeling him in and mounting him on your wall... (waits)

be persuaded.

Both you get all fucked up and do what satan wants you to do,ride him like a pony.

oh i ~*WANT*~ to be persuaded... hee hee.. i'm just neeeeeervous. i've never really done something like have someone stay in my room with me before... i mean, i'm afraid of bein' all awkward & stuff... eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek!

It'll be fine. Well, I'm not going to say that. A. It'll be a blast. You'll hit it off, la la la. B. It'll suck. C. Who knows? I opt for C. The unexpected are always the most fun.

Akward is so sweet. And lst-time intimacy is *supposed* to be akward. Like that great line from the English patient when Juliette Binoche reads from Ralph Fiennes journal abt "new lovers breaking things" in their haste... So put away all yr expensive knicknacks/in case he decides to bend you over the dresser & ride you doggy-style. And pls. - stash some condoms in the bathroom/in case Mr. Shy Guy is totally clueless & doesn't have any. You can still maintain yr Shy Girl demeanor by saying they belong to yr roommate.

Don't worry, it'll be okay... you're a good girl. Now just get some rest and have fun. And take Nate's advice. http://bbs.sorabji.com/messages/244/3476.html?TuesdayJanuary1120000401am

Well, that went awry. Fock.

I totally envy you, sister. excited and nervous and shy. this weekend I'm going up to seattle to go be jaded and dissipated with a bunch of old sybarites.

Don't do it, sister. That's a big leap from a kiss that wasn't even on the mouth to first-time sex. Make him sleep on the floor.

if you're gonna do that, just send him home when he shows up.

she's in college. big leaps are allowed. I mean, she's there to learn, right? and if she sticks around here, nate's gonna corrupt her anyway.

jesus christ. this chick just sneezed herself into orgasm outside my office. now she's taking pills. anyway. on to the matter at hand. does the weekend equal two nights? if it is just one night, go with your instincts. but if you fuck him, he won't be back again. if it is two night, though, you've got to plan. do NOT fuck him on the first night. tease the hell out of him. make him sleep on the floor. accidently brush his crotch when you're kissing, but don't even let him touch your tits. then, on night two, throw on slut mode. and by all means, have him fuck you in the ass.

oh yeah, only throw on slut mode if he's nice to you the day after the first night. he's got to remain nice to you after you've made it clear to him he's not getting any no way no how. then you have a chance of holding onto him when the weekend is over.

"and by all means, have him fuck you in the ass." God I love Nate.

At least let him finger you first so you can get into the swing of things, extra brownie points if he has cold fingers too.

nate has good advice, this is the best approach. I remember the first time i crashed in a girls dorm room. She was the roomate of our band's keyboardist, whom the bassist was screwing, nontheless, i got tipped she thought i was hot, that put me in action. She was cute, we took weekend trips to the beach, stayed in hotel rooms, crashed in each others dorm when the roomate wasn't home, which was easy, cause the bassist, MY roomate, was screwing the keyboardist HER roomate, so the details were easy to work out. It was fun, I remember being so happy in what little space i had. I was free, no one to tell me I couldn't do what i was doing, no one to barge in and tell me to go mow the lawn. We were essentially sex partners and nothing more, exploring our new found freedom, and this was fine with me........ther is nothing wrong with this, no one was hurt along the way...... Sister have fun, my god these are the best years, bask in your new found freedom, rent movies, stay in bed all day with this guy and watch Star Wars or something. Most campus libraries have free vide check out. Go to the caf together, eat shit food, get some one to cop you some cheap wine, ENJOY, and fuck him silly on the second night, the first night will test his patience, but deep down guys like to wait a little bit........and don't make him sleep on the floor. If you have romantic interest in him, show some hospitality and YOU take the floor, which if he has any balls he will gladly take the offer. If he is apuss like me, he won't let that happen, in which case, don't be a prude and cozy up in the bed with him....

patrick has a good lead in if it's a one-night. tease him, then make him sleep in your bed while you sleep on the floor. then in the middle of the night, get into bed with him. wake him up with a little oral sex. on you, not him. nothin' better than waking up with a big wet possum on your face.

I don,t think she should waste one perfectly fine pony riding night.

There's a place down here you can get a free pair of possum balls.

but aww! i mean, i like these plans (hee hee) but you all really think he's comin' up here to have sex? what if he doesn't want to have sex? what if he really just thisks we're, like, friends or something? i guess maybe i'm just panicking a little.

sister, listen: he's male. he's thinking sex. you're female. you have the power.

nathan speaks truth. just bend over, grab your ankles, and let nature run its course.

yes you are panicking. Chill, ease up, have fun, go with the flow.....

oh man, you're not having your "flow" are you?

no! aww i wouldn't have said he could come up if i was flowing. that's WAY too awkward.

or kinky as fuck, take your pick.

why would you forgoe a weekend with someone just because you have your period? You can still make out, or just hang out......

Duh...cause sisters planning on geting some,on both nights if she knows what,s good for her.

We've already been over all this.

yeah i know, but would you cut your nose to spite your face. I mean sure, she may not wanna screw but time spent together screwing or not is still time spent together....

This little 19 year old piece of chicken I had Sunday night was amazing. The raw energy of that youngin' was incredible. However, it was clear he was still young, when afterwards he blabbed and blabbed and blabbed endlessly about Pokemon and Star Trek, when all I wanted to do was lie there and revel in the afterglow. But I'd do it again. Especially since this is the time I became "versatile."

What do you mean by versatile?

use your imagination!

Pokemon and Star trek? I guess the sex must've been good to have listen to that!

are you sure that he was even 19? pokemon? what the hell is that anyway? that little yellow thing right?

No, I don't get it! Jim, do you mean that you, errr, "switched"? As in, from bottom to top, or vice-versa? I just like to know what people mean when they use sly terms that I'm not familiar with, that's all....and I have to check because everything sounds naughty to me if I think about it long enough. And I'm with heather and the Pokemon/19 question. Although I do have a Snorlax (one of the Pokemon creatures) beanie right in front of me, and it is rather cute. But it was given to me, I swear!

i have a paul stanley teddy bear and he has boots with chains on them. *swoon*

Sister, you're in college? No offense, but you seem really Really young. I got the impression you were a virginal teenager. Whatever your age or experience, I still say that's too big of a leap. And I'm utterly shocked that I was outvoted in favor of sex. It's just so unlike the sorabji clan! You people always encourage others to have sex. You're like religious zealots, only it's not other peoples souls you're trying to save, it's their sex lives.

if you really and truly like this guy, don't do it. it's just too early. if you like him and you fuck him this first time, chances are very very good that you'll never see him again. that may sound counterintuitive, but you're going to have to trust me on this one. if you don't care about him, make sure you have some condoms on hand and just relax and have fun. if having sex with him will make you get all emotional and fall for him anyway, then FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T DO IT.

Hey, Spider, that's not fair. For the most part, I try to stay OUT of the to have sex or to not have sex discussions. I generally think people SHOULDN'T if they have to ask, but I also think they WILL if it's gotten to the point of asking a bunch of strangers. They're not my teenagers, so they can make their own mistakes instead of being locked in their bedrooms until they're 35.

Rhiannon-- DING DING DING... I went from bottom to top in no time flat. LOL This broadcast of the TMI theater has been brought to you today by the letter X, and the number 69. Heather... yeah he was 19.. :-)

I,m proud of Jim too:)

*grin* happiness is being a slut.

Oh Jim you don,t get it enough to be a slut,let,s make that happiness is really hot sex,not that I,d know anything about being a slut haha:)

heh... trust me hon, I'm a slut.

hey Gee... i'm 19... in first year university (i live in canada just like you!)... so i'm still kiii-iinda a teenager. but no offence taken. everyone says i sound young in real life too.

My brother loves Pokemon, and he's 23. He also just got dumped by his girfriend of 6 years. I don't know if there is a connection.

I love Pokemon. Not the show, I've never seen it, but just the products. That Pikachu is so CUTE.

My brother loves Pikachu. I avoid watching the show because I am aware of it's addictive potential.

Margret, that was Gee, not me. Unless you don't like my love for my Snorlax, which is indeed bloody cute...a little blue-and-off-white sleepy little guy with fangs and a blissful smile. His tag says "Snorlax is very lazy. It just eats and sleeps. It is rotund, grows in bulk, and becomes steadily more slothful." A stuffed toy after my own heart.

did you all know that Pokemon is short for pocket monsters? it's true. ok, let the penis jokes begin.

yes, my wife learned that from her japanese coworkers..........japanese animation and humor living up to it's understated dark nature.

Sister - -we forgot to ask: Are you a virgin? If so/then ignore all this advice (esp. Nate's) & go w/what Gee said. Skip the sex/if you've never had sex before. IMO/The First Time ought to be w/someone you're wildly in love w/& dating steadily. Not just some guy-pal who's in town for the weekend. However/if you're not a virgin/then I say go for it on the 2nd nite.

Sorry Spider.

's okay.

ok can someone explain to me why the first night is not ok ("you will never see him again") and then- why would the second night be ok? please tell me what's really behind that. is it that you'd look like a slut? even though he perhaps 'asked for it'- but she's the one that has to say no or he'll never see her again? please please answer this, some things make so little sense to me and i'm sure there are plenty of you with an answer to this

it's a chess game. and i think sometimes reservation seems the most logical and seems to imply a sense of self respect. But as long as people have their wits about them screwing on the first date or whathave you is completly ok, again as long as one has their head together or just plain horney. I don't see the big deal.

hell my wife and I screwed way before we ever went on a real "date". We turned out ok. It's ok to have sex just to have sex, as long as there are no head trips going on and the two are honest with each other.

generally that's what i would think but sarah and nate are saying that if she has sex the first night- she won't see him again- and they're pretty sure of it i'm just getting to a point where i don't understand why all of this is so complicated.

i am not sure of sarah's perspective, but i think nate is suggesting that she hold out the first night as a means of power over him. As guys like the elusive/chase/tease game. though I don't know why he says the guy wouldn't come back.

i've only had sex one time, so i'm not exactly ms.experienced or anything... i think that's one of the main reasons i'm nervous (less than 24 hours... eek!) but i don't think this guy has had sex ever... i mean, unless he has some huge secret life or something. so we're pretty even. so it might be okay.

NEVERMIND!!!! i decided to go home for the weekend instead... i'm just way way waaaaay to chicken to spend a whole weekend with just him and me all alone here (i don't know anyone else here so it would be a PURELY just us ALONE weekend and that's way too nerve-wracking ofr me... i'm just too scared). so instead i just invited him to watch a movie with me at home on saturday night... i mean, it'll be fun adn it's not as PRESSURE FILLED of a situation. i know, i know, i'm a baby... but i can't help it! you have NO IDEA about how much of a stomach ache i've had over this all week. thank you guys for lettin' me talk it out with you!!!

Wow. She IS a master of the mind game. She should be giving us advice. That poor boy's head must be spinnin' *grin*

good move. i'm proud of you.

I wasn't pointing the finger at you especially, Margret. I'm just thinking of all the times people have asked "should I have sex?" and the automatic response is "YES!". I think you're right about everything you said though(sister being an adult, doing what she wants anyway, etc.). I think you're doing the right thing, Sister. You seem like you really dig this guy. You'd probably be a lot better off getting to know him better (physically & mentally) first. I guess I just can't disconect love and sex in my head. No one needs to bother telling me Love and Sex are different. I know they are. But for me One always leads to the Other.

hmph. my thoughts behind waiting until the second night is to see how the guy will react to not getting any (on what he probably sees as a 'sure thing'.) if he gets all pissy, and then is a bitch the whole next day, then you know not letting him put his eel in your cave was the right thing. now, if he's still way into you, bang the little marmot.

Gee, I don'think anyone "anutomatically" advises someone to have sex, i mean we did take her situation into consideration, as in other cases as well.

Weasels. They're everywhere. With their beady little eyes, just watchin'. They're out to get me, I tell ya. Damn weasels.

Gee, you just need to get laid.

Don't we all? Of course, the sheer giddiness that would exude from these boards if that happened would be horrifying.

WOW- your talking about Weasels- i'll have to tell my friend- her name is Weasel- interesting choice by her parents don't ya think???

GOD!!! this message board has finally cleared up who is male and whose female in sorabji land- the responses to sister's 'situation' make that perfectly evident. Nate- from all of us here in my room lololol-u'r a dude and bloody funny with it. oh- and about the weasel thing- don't judge, it's a private joke. we would also like to apologise for the Willow notice- but we couldn't resist- i mean c'mon, anyone who has seen the goddamn movie will understand the fascination!!!! ok see y'all Nate- keep up the good work :]

See Sister -- you never have anything to lose by waiting. And only having had sex once makes you practically a virgin. (But wait -- if you were seriously dating the guy who was yr 1st/how come you only had sex once?) Anyone who is as nervous & conflicted abt sleeping w/a guy as you were isn't ready yet. If he's stil around 6 mos. from now & still being attentive/then maybe you'll been ready for him. [And Heather: Nate was quite right in what he said. When a guy you're spending time alone w/for the 1st time is all abt some drawers & he discovers he wo't be having any/the asshole in him will immedaitely surface. BUT/a real playa will know better than to let his frustration show once you blow him off. Mac Daddy wd've played it coolio/still been around come Sunday/& gotten to knock boots. Then he prolly wdn't have called either. The ol' Double Standard never dies. Most men figure if you were such an easy lay that they ended up poking you on yr 1st date/then fifty-eleven other guys have or prolly will end up in bed w/you on the 1st date too. Which makes you less-desirable than soeone who is harder to get. Nine times out of 10/voiding sex on the 1st date is the smart thing to do.] (And ignore Patrick -- he & his wife are Not Of This Earth/so of course/it all worked out wonderfully for them. On their planet/everybody mates for life.)

silly earthlings

It's so variable. I asked a friend of mine who is very happily married to a great guy 'well how did you meet' and she said 'we got drunk and had sex and then about 2 weeks later we went on a date and from there on in we were pretty together.' Courtship - ptooey!

No way -- Courtship Rules! Some people manage to create an everlasting hook-up w/out it. But that doesn't mean courting isn't cool.

So what happened?

Scroll back. See Sister's 1/20/00 post.

I hate courtship. It makes me feel horrible and insecure. I just want to get to the part where we know we like each other and the other one is a sane person and we have fun together. Courtship for me is always full of game playing which I loathe. I'd rather be up front than squirrely.

Nononooo -- you've got it all wrong, DL. Courtship is where everybody gets to know everybody. Sure/you're on yr best behavior. But that's not being squirrely or phony. If you met yr best friend's Mom for the 1st time/wdn't you be on yr best behavior? It's no different than that. And you get to spend time together doing ordinary stuff -- going out to eat/going to the movies/rollerblading/taking walks -- that doesn't seem ordinary at all/becuz you're doing it w/somebody new & special. I can't say I've always been courted by the guys I've ended up with. Bbut when I was/it was like a fairy tale. Standing in the middle of Times Square kissing on the sidewalk in the pouring rain... rolling down the hills in the Sheeps Meadow in Central Park (think abt it -- you haven't played Roll the Log since you were a kid, right?) Going to Serendipity & pigging out on hot fudge sundaes... Spending all nite on the phone together when you can't see each other... You walk around feeling like a teenager again. And acting like one too. Becuz you're all giddy & silly when you're first falling in love & the whole world seems bright & shiny & sweet. God, I miss that... Even if it only lasts a few months.

Danke. (Now I feel like an idiot. It's Tuesday, isn't it...)

I'm so excited because I get to see the boy I like tomorow. I see him twice a week and all week up until the time when I see him I keep thinking "I get to see him in three days..." Today I kept thinking: "I get to see him tomorow." I feel nervous and can't decide what to wear and I'm afraid my hair will be all static-y because there was no conditioner when I took my shower. I want to spend more time talking to him but I'm afraid he'll realize how I feel and become uncomfterble. okay, I'm going to go back on my word. I'm going to have to let the boy know there's something going on. But not yet. I'll try to hold out. I thought I might tell him in a few months on the last day we work together. That way he won't have to keep seeing me every week and feeling uncomfterble. Did I tell you all about the way I think he looks at me? You know you're talking to someone and you look at them and you can see them, you know they're there. But a few times when I've been talking to him I think (I'm almost posative) that he's looked at me Differently. Not in the normal way. I feel like he's actually Noticing me. Like he's just realized I'm Real. I might just be imagining things, or he might look at everyone that way, but it strikes me as special. I can't remember if anyone's ever looked at me like that before. crushes are lots of fun. But This...this is awful. I've got a big lump in my throat. He makes me really nervous. and I still can't think of a nickname for him.

Call him Ishmael.

it's not awful. it sounds great.

I like giving nicknames too. There was a kid in my drawing class I nicknamed Ninboy. All he wore were nin shirts, and listenend to it, didn't speak a lot, and mostly kept to himself. I would sometimes try and talk to him, but I could tell he felt awkward. He was from California, and came here for a change. I have his job now. He dropped out of college, and has extreme depression.

Have you asked him out yet, Gee? Don't waste time with this.

Ishmael. Okay. All my nervousness over seeing him today was for nothing. It turns out he doesn't work on wednsdays anymore, so I only get to see him for three hours on thursdays. It's too bad because the top I wore today really flattered my boobs. I couldn't ask him him out because if he didn't like me he'd be really embaressed from then on. so would I. I want to get a better idea of what he thinks about me first. I like him a lot. I'm thinking about switching my classes around tomorow so I have an hour free before work. I could go and hang out and talk to him. that's what I did last week. I'm afraid I'll come on too strong if I do it twice in a row, though. I think when I see him tomorow I'll try talking to him about normal stuff. Find out more about him, like what his asperations are and how how plans to make them happen. is that too heavy? I have lots of fantasies of me and him sitting on a couch and talking about all kinds of personal stuff. I have other fantasies too, but those are personal.

GEE, YOU ARE SUCH A WUSS!!! Sem is BEYOND RIGHT on this. And he's a Guy/so you can trust his advice/even if you think mine is worthless. Guys are always stuck w/Doing The Asking & Facing All The Rejection. But in Modern Times/a Woman (vs. a mere girl) shd be willing to face the same risk. Unless you are one of those idiotic Rules Girls [if it doesn't load correctly/go here & click on the 1/25 show of Bill Maher's Politically Incorect/the one featuring Sherrie Schneider & Ellen Fein -- 2 Jewish chicks whose only claim to fame is that each managed to get a man to marry them a decade ago] who plays all kinds of head games to 'land a man'. It's no harder for you to be told No than it is for him to say No to you. Turnabout is fair play/dig? Ask him out for Pete's sake! Be specific -- i.e. "If you're free on ____ wd you like yo go out for ____?" (I don't know if you drink or only partake of coffee or whatever. But whatever 'whatever' is -- a movie/a salad/ coffee -- /you can invite him out for that.) If he says no/then you know he's either not interested or seeing someone. But in any case/the risk you take is no worse than the risk he'd face if he was the one doing the asking. And if you like him as much as you say you do/then he's worth the risk. And make sure you have the $$ to cover his tab/ since you invited him out. Whoever does the asking shd pay for the evening.

Hell, just go out as friends. Go to the Tim Horton donut shop (I couldn't find one in Quebec, btw, I feel cheated - Fuck the (pseudo)French!), go to an IHOP, or whatever 24-hr place you have, you know. You have everyone here backing you up. I'd think you could tell if he didn't like you - sometimes that's way more obvious than if someone likes you. GO out with the intention of being his friend. The key is to get him in a social situation, where he'll act different than he does in the college situation. IF he still doesn't seem interested, then you still have freind. You may want to go out with him and one of your friends, and have himsit between you. Have your friend watch him and study his reactions to you. That may answer some of your questions right there.

just tell him you're interested in sucking his penis.

Nate,that,s too brash and this is Gee we are talking about,she,s shy,so she should shake hands with his penis,introduce herself to his penis first,handle his penis,then and only then,and ONLY if Gee wants to do it,should she slob on his nob.

well, i just thought if she went up to the guy and shook hands with his penis that would be awkward. otherwise that WOULD have been my advice.

RC, I don't think your opinion is worthless. And you're right - I am a wuss. Even when I convince myself to be honest about how I feel, I do it in a wussy way. I asked a boy out Once, though. He said yes and then when I called him (three times) he never called me back. He could have just said No. If it feels right the next time I see him I'll ask him if he wants to do something with me. I don't want it to seem like I planned it all ("If you're not busy on February 2nd at 5:45pm, would you like to go to the Falafal Hut located at the rear end of York Lanes for some rice and potatoes served to us by Danny the Falafal Guy?"). I want to seem casual. He really likes making me laugh. He's good at it, too. He had me wheezing and holding my stomach in pain and he was so excited to have that effect on me. I didn't get to ask him about his asperations, but he asked me a serious question that surprised me. He asked me "Why are you shy? Don't you trust people?" I didn't expect him to be so serious with me. I take that as a good sign. my biggest worry is that I'll ask him if he wants to go do something and my voice will shake. I'd be horrified.

Why?

If it shakes, tell him you have a sore throat. Or, if you believe in logotherapy, *try* to make it shake and it won't. Also, remember that you are more sensitive to things like that than anyone else. So if it does shake and it embarrasses you, remind yourself that if you don't bring attention to it, he won't notice. You know what I hate? When guys ask you tons of questions. I get really flustered and defensive. Even innocent questions. Remember the tempting-shoulder boy? All he did was ask me if I were a classics major, and I went into cornered-animal mode. "No, why would you think something like that?" But then I'm crazy. When I like someone, I hate him at the same time. I hate him for making me like him. God help the poor man I fall in love with....he'll probably end up killed. Good luck, Gee.

thanks girl. you guys are nice. I thought about it alot today and I decided okay, I'll ask him if he wants to go do something. I have lots of time to figure out How I'm going to do that (sounds stupid, I know) because I'm not going to ask him till Valentines day has passed. I'm sorry, that's just too much pressure. I have a question for boys. Just something I'm wondering about. If some girl that you knew (doesn't matter if you know her slightly, or very well) just came up to you and offered to give you a blow job, would you say yes right away? Assuming you weren't seeing someone else at the time. Does it matter if she's fat or skinny or beautiful or ugly? Is there some point at which you have to say "No, I'm sorry, thanks anyway." or will any woman do?

If she just sprang it on me apropos of nothing, we had nothing between us other than a passing acquaintance, I'd certainly decline, slightly weirded out. State-altering substances aside, I don't think that sort of thing happens all that much outside of Penthouse Forum editors' fevered imaginations or motorcycle gangs. For some reason this reminded me of a surreal encounter I had in Croatia. I don't remember why I was in Zagreb, probably flying into Sarajevo from Frankfurt and had an overnight or something. It was a cool late spring evening, and I was walking between bars and cafes, and was near the large tram square in front of the train station, across from the Esplanade Hotel where Rebecca West stayed and wrote a good amount of Black Lamb and Grey Falcon. An utterly filthy four and a half foot tall Gypsy woman ten months pregnant with three rotten teeth in her head accosted me with unintelligable sounds. She clutched at me and begin cycling through pidgin versions of various languages. I thought she was begging and starting rooting around in my pocket for small deutsch marks when she cycled into English. I'm pretty much unshockable, especially at that time when I was awash daily in death and atrocity and despair and suffering, but I was gobsmacked when she came out with the classic "Fuckee, suckee, fifty marks" familiar to English speakers from Thailand to Brazil. Only the currency was different. I stuttered a somewhat polite refusal and made a break for it. The surprise was mized in with revulsion and, most of all, amazement at her asking price, which was more than most ordinary people in the former Yugoslavia made during the entire four year war.

Wait -- is there some sort of National Dating Moratorium til After Feb.14? Shit -- no one told me! And I have a date for Sat. nite! :) Gee -- forget abt Valentine's Day. Most guys don't even notice it's Feb.14 if they haven't got a girl already. (Plenty don't notice even if they do!) He's not *even* gonna think "Damn, she asked me out at the beginning of Feb. -- must be angling for someone to buy her a box of Godiva chocolates come Valentine's Day." Just ask him out. The very next time you see him. Unless he's got his tongue down some other girl's throat at the time. Promise me you'll ask him out -- the next time you see him. Promise? You said on the other board that you think all us SorabjiFemmes are so brave. Well/we're not. (Just chemically-imbalanced.) Seriously/no one's really brave abt the whole dating thinkg -- except egotistical assholes who think they're All That. I've got a date w/a dish & I'm terrified that come tomorrow nite I'm gonna say the wrong thing/or fart in his car/or spill coffe on myself/or spill it on him/or not be smart enuf/pretty enuf/whatever enuf/for this guy. But come hell or high water/I *am* going out w/The Chef tomorrow. Becuz I've waited forever to meet somebody like him. I dunno how old you are/but I know you don't want to end up like me -- 39 & all alone in the world & having her 1st real date in years/do ya? Ya gotta get Out There in The Flow/or you'll never know who'll you dig that might dig you. So even tho' he's only 28/even tho' I'm nervous as hell/even tho' it will prolly rain & wreck my new haircut/I am going out on a date tomorrow. Becuz I won't know if he cd be "The One" if I don't give him a chance. And neither do you. So pretend it's a Nike ad & Just Do It! Promise? -------------------------------------------------- And I can answer yr blowjob question: If the girl looked good/Nate wd say yes right away. Ditto for Swine & Sem. 90% of he males on Earth wd say yes if they weren't married. And 70% of the married males wd say yes. But not the married male Sorabjians. Guys love head. Can't get it often enuf. And the idea of head from a total stranger it quite irresistible. Unless she's a skank.

It doesn't do that much for me. It's nice and all, but it gets boring fast, and then it's time to move onto something else. To be frank, I find cunnilingus more exciting than fellatio.

Markus -- A man after EVERY woman's heart! And don't feel bad abt the Croatian gypsy. She was just trying to get $$ to eat so her baby cd eat. I'm sure she cd tell you were an American. And everyone knows Americans abroad = $$.

uh, actually i would say no, if i was sober. I'm a little old fashioned about that kind of thing. We aren't all Clintons, ya know. Plus, i don't think it's a wise idea to put your dick in the mouth of someone you casually know. What if she's off her meds and ...SNAP!

I'm glad valentine's day is on a monday. I'll go to the gym, do homework, eat at home. I bet I'll have no problem avoiding smug coupledom.

It is? Great! I will be absorbed in wrestling and might avoid feeling lonely. Actually it should be alright this year. One advantage of being away from all your friends, is that you don't have sit and watch thembeing all luvey-duvey w/ their s/o.

Markus,I'd like to meet you.

Me too cause the asshole did it again,disconnected the cable connection to the internet and I,m trying to figure out how to hook it back up to my phone line.Can anyone tell me?If I don,t get back tonight,remind me Mon.to tell ya something about moving the mouth south.

for the record, I'm 22. It's not that I'm worried I'll seem like I'm fishing, it's just that I don't want to feel like there's any obligation on either his or my part to spend V-Day together. To be honest I don't want to spend that day with him (as much as I like him). It's difficult to explain. I'd just feel like I was trying to live up to the standards of the day. Plus that's my birthday, and in my family you spend your birthday with your family, not with some guy you work with. I promise to ask him out. Not the very next time I see him, but eventually. Is that okay? I see him every thursday (and only every thursday) and I'm going to be busy all next weekend, so asking him the next time I see him would be bad, since I Really don't like asking too far in advance. there's a slight possibility I might be free. if it turns out that way, I'll ask him - promise.

J, I want to hear about moving the mouth south. Sit on a happy face!

Saturday morning I woke up because he was feeling me and wanting some loving.I have been ignoring him because of the bullshit he gave me about the mailart.After he threw that fit on me, he bought me this computer station and a leather chair that rolls,he spent all weekend putting it together,took the computer apart and set it up in the next room,but it doesn,t work now because it,s set for a cable ISP,and the room where it is only has a telephone connection.So after he woke me up kissing me he went south,it was good,but as I was feeling him ,he wasn,t "ready",so I put my mouth to work,he came but he never did get hard.All day long he kept talking about it,how that has never happened before,I said "It,s no big deal,I hear this happens sometimes,I,ve seen commercials about it.That just upset him more,he just started taking wellbutrin on top of his prozac and seems to think that may be the problem,so now he,s so wacked out he,s going to go back to the doctor.Last night I stayed up after he went to bed just so I wouldn,t have to go through it again.

Viagra?

J,why does he keep disconnecting you?I suspect his flaccidity is related to latent guilt.Use it.Are you on your computer now or web-tv? Which email address should I use?I am continueing taping those radio shows for you,as soon as I use all the tapes I'll send them right off to you.They'll just make your day!

Still on webtv...he tried to hook the computer back up,but the room he put it in doesn,t have a cable connection,he said I,ll seem like a C.E.O. in that set-up,I told him my buisness would be Frustration Inc.

J,go check your email,I sent you something.

I checked,I didn,t get anything,btw,that Chippendale picture you sent last week...get out of the south!!!haha

I think they might have had one too many servings of grits. I'll resend,so check again in a few minuets.

J,I'm confused,my email said you received your card,and you even responded,with a message back to me.Was that you?All I sent was a humorous card.

Got it and yea you got my drift.Did you get a viagra mpg I sent?I think what set him off on the mailart business is the fri. before I got it,we had been bowling(don,t you dare say anything)and he was telling me about a guy he works with,he had been off work for 2 weeks and when he came back to work told my husband he took off because some family his wife met on the internet came and stayed with them."Can you imagine?"He asked me"having some people you never even seen come stay with you for 2 weeks.I told him I could imagine that,and that I invited R.C. to come out here and go to Rocky Point with me,and then he said I was crazy and he might have to have me put away again.I said she wasn,t coming cause she could,nt get off work till the summer and Rocky Point is too miserable then.I thought that calmed him down but apparently it,s dawned on him that even though I can,t go anywhere,I can still communicate with other people.

WHOA! J -- don't go gettin' yrself institutionalized by yr spouse just to entertain me for a week! Don't laugh -- it's easier for a spouse to get you locked up in the looney been than most people think. And I wd NEVER stay w/a couple unless I knew them both from around here. That wd just be rude. When you're part of a couple you/have to get clearance from yr other half before inviting houseguests over. Think if how you'd feel if you came home from work one day & there was some guy you'd never even heard of w/his bags in yr living room/sleeping on yr couch/becuz yr hubby met him on the Web? So tell yr husband he can stop cleaning his shotgun becuz I won't be showing up at yr door.

The point is Czarina could stay with us cause he knows her,he seems to think that the people I talk to on the board are not "real",and they are.Plus he has had some of his friends stay with us and I never complained and was always gracious.

shit.......i am not real......you really think thats my wife i talk about and post pics of? I have no idea who she is, or who I am ...really....i don't....

Haha....,you,re real...she,s real....I,m real...Angry Sam is real,sometimes anyway.

We're taking in a lonely little Canuck we met off IRC (Internet Relay Chat) He's moving down here, to Seattle, from Canada, after he graduates in June and doesn't really know anyone here. Since I think he may get a job @ my boyfriend's design media studio, he'll most likely stay with us for awhile, until he can get his own place. I got an email last night from someone who used to frequent these boards awhile ago. He located me from a search engine he'd found. He has my webpage address, my new email address(es), my home address and phone number(s).... I'm thrilled.

I'm mad. Some girl I work with was cuddling up with Ishmael. This doesn't mean they're together or even interested in each other. it's difficult to explain. anyway I was really jealous and I think I growled under my breath. I think I understand what's really confusing me. He treats me like a boy! Like a freaking boy! What's with that? I don't look like a boy. I've got long hair and a figure. I've got boobs. He's noticed them, I know that. So..what? I'm not a boy! Every other girl (and some boys) he flirts with - me he hits on the head with his newspaper and calls a jerk. I'M NOT A BOY! I freaking hate it when guys treat me like I'm one of them. I'm a girl! I'm a girl!!!! I wear frilly underthings and sqeal when I see mice! G-I-R-L! That just ticks me off. Him and his little cuddlebuddy. Well somebody's gonna get their ass kicked, and I don't care if it's him or her or some old lady walking down the street. and then I'm gonna Force the little bugger to realize I'M A GIRL. the frickin stupid rotten miserable cute little moron.

gee, you rock.

is it just me, or has gee's personality really opened up recently? maybe spider can analyze? i'm here if analization is required. but yeah, echo agatha.

Just hit him with a steel chair. That's what Chyna would do.

Chyna kicks ass. I wish I could be as big and strong as she is. Gee: It is a universal fact known to every girl over the age of 7 that when guys want to touch you and are afraid you'll reject them, they hit you. Chin up. Nate: No analysis available at this time, as I'm still gathering data. Will let you know when I've reached a conclusive diagnosis.

Well Gee/now is when the fun starts! Welcome to the Wild World of Figuring Out Men. Once you figure out this particular man/you will have a lifetime membership into the realm of madness that is The Male Psyche. Even if you don't figure him out/you will still be inducted. For life. Becuz what you learn abt this guy prolly won't be at all helpful in decyphering the next guy. Or the one after that. Men like to pretend we're the complicated ones. But most women aren't. It's just that we get so twisted up trying to figure out "what on earth does this guy want from me?" & they tend to confuse our confusion w/being complicated creatures. Like the guy who calls you 3 times during the week to try & get you to come & hang out w/him on Sunday/then spends the whole afternoon parked in front of the football game. And wants you to stay parekd right there beside him. And thinks that was a 'date'. But once you get thru yr 20's/you'll have a pretty good idea of how insanely contradictory men in general are. And then/you'll find one who doesn't make you want to pull his hair out/& you'll get married/have kids/blah, blah, blah. (And pray yr kids are all girls.) There cd be a million reasons why this chick was all over him -- & you have to accept the fact that at least 1 might be becuz she's interested in him too. But considering the following as well: 1. Maybe the reason he let her drape herself all over him is becuz he's clueless that *you* really like him. Think abt it -- if a guy is sitting down in the lounge or a club & some girl comes over & plops into his lap/what can he do -- short of standing up & letting her fall on her ass? Which I hope he wd/if he were *my* man. But he'd have to be willing to be terribly rude & really embarass the tart in front of everybody. 2. There are people who like to behave provacatively in public just for the hell of it. (Like Carmen Electra & Leo DiCaprio (sp?) Who admitted later that he'd never met her before that nite at whatever club it was. But she suggested they make out becuz it wd be "good theatre". And IdiotBoy that he was/he agreed/ rather than realize she was just using him for publicity.) So maybe Ishmael was caught off guard & possibly flattered by her attentions (was she good-looking?) & went along w/the program. And maybe yr co-worker likes to instigate shit. 3. The bopping you on the head w/the newspaper thing sounds like Adolescent Mating Behavior. Which I thought guys outgrew by the time they hit college. But apparently/some don't. He's obviously not the Rico Suave type who's going to get all in yr face & try to Mack. But don't think that means he doesn't like you. If he flirts w/everyone else (& whazzup up w/him flirting w/boys? Aae you sure what you saw was flirting?) & you're the only girl he pals around w/it cd very well be that he treats you differently becuz he feels you're different from the others. Now/ whether that 'difference' is fraternal affection or genuine attraction is what you have to figure out. If you still want him -- or even if you don't -- this gives you all the more reason to ASK HIM OUT -- NOW! It seems like you'll never be able to read this guy right until you spend some time alone w/him.

I thought being treated like one of the group was a good sign. None of the other girls gets a newspaper bop. And you can't really complain about the competition. It's not like you've put any claim on him.

i sort of thought that i wanted to have boys, rc girls are a pain in the ass (my sister and i as evidence) gee- maybe he let you see them together because he knows that you like him (or at least that he likes you) and he's trying to show you that someone else wants him so you should too.

My mother (who had four boys) frequently expressed her relief at not having daughters.

C'mon now, Heather -- where's yr Team Spirit! Our side needs more players. And if you think girls are more of a bother/remember this: Girls are far less likely to - get into brawls that require trips to the E.R. - get arrested - commit date rape or sexual hassarrment - bring a gun to school & slaughter everything in sight - leave skidmarks in their underwear/which you will probably be washing If I ever decided to actually make a kid of my own/I'd go to one of those sex selection clinics just to make sure it was XX & not XY. Girls rock! Think of Cleo. Who went toe-to-toe w/Mark Thomas. Enuf said.

girls rule the world until they get to be about 11, then things go all wonky and everything is painful but cleo though, touche can't believe i'm sounding so sexist. i need some better role models. sometimes it's just hard being a girl- no matter what nate thinks. great men and great women....... fuck this gender bullshit plus i didn't know about that skidmark thing

So what's this Cleo thing going toe to toe with Mark Thomas, RC?

FOr the record, neither I nor any of my (less talented) brothers did any of the things on the list.

markus, did it ever occur to you that if your mother had had four girls, she would have told them how relieved she was to have had girls? moms do that stuff. i think mark was ready to nap for a week by the time my entourage left his domicile. i think we mentally exhausted him.

Nice try. Call her and ask her.

i agree nate, gee has seemed to open up....anyway, gee, isn't you who said she used to "poke" boys alot? Perhpas he is reciprocating. and heather.... "maybe he let you see them together because he knows that you like him (or at least that he likes you) and he's trying to show you that someone else wants him so you should too." guys don't go to such lengths....at least not conciously. and RC, i have seen plenty of girls underwear in my life time...you shouldn't talk....in fact, this is one of those subjects that should left alone. black boxers and no underwear eh? i haven't worn underwear in months....

(1) The Rockin' Highliners are going to be playing in Toronto on the 11th. I will ask Ishmael to come with me. Is that a bad idea? Asking a boy to go see a band he's (probably) never heard of before? I've actually never seen them before, either, but I hear they're good and I really want to go. (2) I've never poked Ishmael. But he's the one I mentioned a while ago who poked me a couple of times, and I found that suspicious. (3) How have I "opened up"? I would really like to know.

You're sassy. Poking is a noted courting behavior. Ask Crawford.

But I've always been sassy!

Poking is definately fun. Sassy poking... hmmm.

Yes, you've opened up, Gee. I can see your gall bladder now.

Speaking of which, thanks to Droopy, I am currently holding the anatomical drawings of Andreas Vesalius in my hands. His "spleen" plate is not that gory, except it appears that he has drawn the skin that was cut away to expose the organs as being clipped or pinned to the untouched skin on the figure's chest. What an eye for detail. His mournful muscle people are the best.

jme- put gee's liver down

hehehe. That was really funny. aka "LOL". The boy I made out with hugged me today and I swear to god, whatever it was he was wearing (cologn, after-shave, whatever) was still lingering in the air five hours later. It was a nice smell, too, don't get me wrong. Not overpowering, but strong. I have to ask him what it was. Tomorow I ask my Ishmael out. I'll do it, I will. I'm not only sassy, I'm sparky. I will feel sorry for him if he says no.

Go, GEE GO!!!

Just make sure you call him Ishmael.

If I called him Ishmael and he ever found this site he'd know I was talking about him. He'd probably know anyway, though, so oh well. Anyway, everything was going really well today. I was having a good day. My tutorial was short yet helpful, my lecture didn't put me to sleep, and I even managed to squeeze some potato salad in between the two classes. woohoo! Our regular supervisor at work couldn't come in today, so Ishmael was acting supervisor, which means that he spent a lot of time in the little office, which was great! Because he was alone so much of the time I could just go to the office any time and ask him when no one was around. I spent a lot of time with him today. When I first saw him I commented that his hair looked different and he said something about a two-minute shower. I said I didn't know why people always talked about taking a shower cuz then other people picture them naked, and he started talking about being naked and wet and soapy and touching himself (!). the rest of the evening every now and then he'd say the word "penis" which would make me laugh (and blush I think). He'd also touch himself suggestivly and give me a goofy look. He was playing with me. :) when it was his dinner break I sat down beside him and he kept offering me some of his food. grapes, celery, some kind of melon. I told him about the great grapes they had at Disneyland and he told me I was a freak for thinking about grapes when I was at Disneyland. he also hit me several times. one time he walked all the way across the room, picked up a book and hit me in the arm with it and walked away. he hugged about three other girls, though, so what's that? The Boy I made out with suggested that he's intimidated by me. Ha! I'll bet. anyway I took it all as encouraging. I was starting to think that he really did like me and I was Posative if I could just force myself to ask him, he'd say Yes, He does want to go see the Rockin' Highliners with me! Unfortunatly, when I finally did ask him at the end of my shift, he told me he already had plans with his roommates, but thanks. I'm more confused than I was before. the only thing I know for sure is that I will Not be asking again. I think I did my part. If he's in any way interested he's gonna have to make a move now. He'd have to be a freaking dimwit to not realize I've got a thing for him now. You may now all proceed to tell me what a loser he is for not snatching me up when he had the chance.

GEE -- YA BIG WUSS! How dare you give up so easily?! You'e a Sorabji Woman -- Remember That! You're after the Elusive Big Game here. It may take more than a single hunt to bag him. But bag him you'd better -- or I will most certainly hafta open up a large can of whupass all over yr little undergrad butt! And whazzup this this makeout guy? Gossip travels fast on campus. If Ishmael finds out you're playing suckey-face w/someone else/he'll NEVER make the mental move from viewing you in Buddy Mode to Babe Mode. (Unless he's the type who likes to poach. Which indicates bad character.) And Babe Mode is where you want him to be. Why'd you wait til THE END OF YR SHIFT to ask him to the concert?? He might have just made plans w/his roomies 5 min. before you popped the question. IMO/a guy who doesn't blow off his homies to spend time w/a female is kind of odd -- but also admirable. I used to hate it when I wd make plans w/my school chums/& they'd back out at the last minute to go be w/some guy. If you *really* want to spend time w/this guy, then ask him out again. (Think of all the guys you've blown off the 1st time they cracked... Then think of how many times you said 'yes' if they had the courage to ask again. Persistence *is* flattering.) But twice is definitely my personal limit. I won't give any man a chance to blow me off 3x in a row. [Speaking of which/The Chef has been very persistent abt spending time on a regular basis. Like, every weekend for 3 wks. running. I never have to do the asking/which is nice. But I'm starting to feel guilty becuz he *always* pays. Says that if he takes a woman out "The only reason she shd be reaching into her purse is to get her lipstick. If I can't afford to cover her tab/then I've got no business taking up her time." :) So I guess I'm gonna have to invite him over to spend an evening chez moi/since my funds are tight. (But I *killed* at my interview today. I shd hear from them tomorrow re: my start date/drug testing/etc.) I just hope I manage to behave myself & not maul the poor bastard...]

I don't think gee should ask him out again. he's already said no. he may have a good excuse, but now it's his turn to ask her out. and, besides, it's not like a guy has to keep a date with his roommates. maybe if he had plans to do something with one specific person, then it would be rude to cancel. but with a group of people he sees all the time? they can do whatever they were going to do without him, I'm sure. I thought you were a rules chick, r.c.

I,m with Cyst on this one.

Me too. Ball in Ishmael's court.

Depends. I say RC has a good point. The question is what do you want more, to be smug and alone, or happy and together? If you want to go out with him, ask one more time, after a couple week wait to see if he's gonna step up. But no third time. Unless you think it worth it, of course. But I've got a hard fast rule that I never ask anything more than three times.

yeah Gee, move on, guys like to chase. When they see an opportunity that is easy, they may turn and run, or toy with it like a cat.........fahget about him, find some other beau, and toy WITH HIM!!! The Rules? oh god, nothing could be worse for relations between men and women.

ya gee. you should marry kabuo. nobody wants to be with a one armed journalist anyway.

dating is so awful. all those rules. ack.

RC, I made out with some guy I didn't know very well a few months ago. It only happened one time. now he's like a semi-friend. I got some good advice from him, though, cuz he's got some stuff in common with Ishmael. I didn't want to wait till the last minute to ask him out, but I was really nervous and it wasn't until I realized "there's no time left!" that I was able to force myself. I'm sure he didn't make his plans at the last minute since he was working the whole time. even though I hate to blow one person off to spend time with another person, I really think if he'd wanted to spend time with me he could have said yes. These are his Roommates...he see's them all the time. Unless they were some kind of special plans, like a birthday or something. But if he were interested in me he could have suggested doing something else. It's the "but thanks" part that bugs me for some reason. It's not so much him having plans, just when he said "but thanks". that bothered me. no one has yet told me what a loser he is for letting me get away. I'm waiting for that.

what's the point, now? that jackass is such a complete and total loser for letting you get away.

No Cyst -- I am an R.C.-Has-Her-Own-Rules Chick. If I ever saw either of the chicks who wrote that book on the street/I'd spit on them. Then again/I guess 2 silly Jewish girls who haven't dated in a decade becuz they've been married for so long can afford to give ridiculous dating advice/becuz that shit prolly only works on Jewish men anyway. Gee: I've asked guys out more than once & never been sorry for it. Hey/sometimes people are just plain busy. And who knows what Ishmael's plans w/his roomies actually were. Maybe they had bought tkts. to some other gig. I think it sucks for a female to take the p.o.v. that "If he *really* wanted to hang out w/me he wd blow off his friends." We hate it when male chums blow us off to go chasing after a potential piece of ass. When you make plans w/someone -- whether friend or potential mate--you shd keep those plans/unless an emergency comes up. That's just basic good manners. And not all guys 'like to chase'. Some men are really shy & afraid of rejection -- same as some of us. If it takes them all week to get up the chutzpah to ask a girl out & she says no/they might never ask again. Well, you've gotten everyone's 2 cents at this point. But I say fuck the false pride b.s. Pride is only meaningful when it strengthens yr self-esteem/not when you use it to try & prove you're superior to others. I say ask him out 1 more time/in a couple of weeks.

I don't know, Gee. If it were me in his place, and I got asked out by such a nice woman, I would at least have said I would love to go get coffee or do something else, if I didn't want to break the engagement with my friends. It wouldn't hurt to try again, but if he says no again, kick him to the curb!

Yes, ask him again. Maybe he did have other plans, or wasn't thinking very much. After that--whatever.

I'm not trying to be superior. Do I seem like I think I'm superior just because I'm so much better than he is? heh, just kidding. I don't think I'm superior. I think he's a really great guy who's got a lot going for him. I'd just like to reassure myself for a little while that he's got to be messed up Somehow if he didn't want me. as for asking him out again: You're right, he could have had plans he couldn't change. I'm totally willing to give him the benifit of the doubt. But everyone has their limits. If I gave him the chance to reject me twice (and no matter how nice or understandable a No it was, it was still a No) I'd feel really crappy and start avoiding him. Right now I only feel dissapointed and I don't think I'll feel akward around him. Even if he doesn't fall in love with me, he's still really swell and I'd like to be some kinda friends with him at least. you're all good eggs.

What about me? Huh?

You're cracked.

i am not an egg

You were once. Don't deny your roots, just because you outgrew that stage. Be proud, man.

I think I'd give it a while before I asked again. And that's if I did. Just to see how things go. No rush. Don't make it a big deal, or something to obsess over. It's like drawing: first you start out with scribbly, non-important lines, and then you pick and choose which are most needed. Give it time. Or if you just have to know, then confront him, but confrontation is always a hard and messy thing to do. It could go out two ways: you could be that fearless woman, or you could be that ashamed what-was-I-thinking woman for having asked him again. I think asking him out again right away would be like confrontation.

did you guys ever take those grade school standardized tests in which one of the sample reading comprehension stories was about a chick breaking out of an egg? its special tooth for breaking out of the egg is called the "pip," as I recall. one of the sample vocabulary questions was "barrel" meaning to go fast.

None of my reading comprehension tests ever had the term "give 'er da Berries!"

Umm, what page are *you* on Cyst? Or was that some secret code thing/like the dots (which I also don't understand)?

that was not a non-sequitur! they were talking about EGGS! I think the test I am thinking of was the california achievement test (CAT). we took them twice a year or so. and they used the same tests over and over. the first couple times I looked up whatever I didn't know after the test was over. then I knew them all. I think I started testing at a 12th-grade reading level in fourth grade or something. but just because they gave us the same goddamn tests over and over.

meow I must have missed those.

We had to take the CAT tests as well.