when i was sixteen and knew everything i told my boyfriend of the time that i was going to marry a man that was little... so if he ever hit me it wouldn't hurt so bad. my friend responded, "why don't you marry someone who won't hit you?" i'd never really thought about it that way before. so i took the words to heart. i wouldn't marry someone who would hit me. last night i was at my "friends" house. we'd dated before, but things weren't amazingly complicated enough so we decided to be friends. so we drank... life was fun... then he started touching me and i told him that i wanted to leave...he wouldn't let me...it lasted for about two hours... then he called me a whore and the such and told me i could leave... selfish girl that i am. i called a friend to come and get me, and then i sat in his roommate's room waiting for my friend to come. i was scared. he came into the room and starting hitting the roommate, and when i got between them he hit me too. i only have a few scrapes and bruises, and the roommate has a cut nose and a black eye. the crazy thing is... he wanted to meet with me today. he was crying. he said he was so sorry. i met him in a very public place, a park. he cried, and said he was sorry. i told him it was okay. it wasn't okay. i feel really scared. when your friends scare you like that... what do you do? bastard thing is, i felt so bad for him that i forgot that he did the wrong thing,not me.

drop him, leave him, forget him, give him his walking papers, don't look back, forget he ever existed. don't let his tears or apologies get to you, these guys never change. 4 (to my knowledge) of my female relatives have been in abusive relationships. 2 in the generation previous to mine and 2 in my own. one was an aunt who was married to a man for 31 years who would cheat on her and point a gun at her head. my aunt's cousin had a husband who would beat her - he was a failed artist who went from one job to another and finally left her for the woman across the street because she "never supported him." my sister her married a guy who would shove her around. she's got a strong will, though. when he gave her a black eye she walked out on him and never went back. the 4th was the same, just left the guy when she found out how bad he was. resist the urge to pity him; don't think you can change him or that he "just needs someone who understands him." he's selfish and he can't control himself and will probably always be like that.

bell_jar, GET AWAY- you can't fix him, you can't help him, you can't show him how nice people can be, you can't take away whatever made him this way

i don't want to be anything more than a friend to him. i'm very much scared by the whole thing. i don't feel like i'm old enough to handle situations like this. i mean i think that i've been growing up too fast. i suppose i'm an adult via age. i'm not going to marry him. i can't just let him be upset though. i can be his friend in a very safe way... right. can't i be good and nice and still not be hurt?

no. being Good and Nice go hand-in-hand with pain. If you want to be a Nice Person, you're going to get hurt. it's okay to be selfish sometimes, you know.

no. he will depend on you to be good and nice even though he is hurting you. and you will try your best to tiptoe around him, placate him, coddle to him, but sooner or later things won't be going right, or there's a line you won't cross, and he will lash out. guys like that are still like children in certain ways - they want things there own way and when things don't go their way (like your rejecting his advances) anger will overtake him and he will lash out. there is some kind of anger and frustration in him that is so great that even the smallest problem or rejection hits him hard, and he will hit back just as hard. guys like this often go their whole lives going from person to person looking for someone who will allow them to act the way they do until they just can't take it anymore. or he is jailed. ah hell, i don't even know the guy. your guy. but if he's like all the rest of 'em that i've known, that's what your in for; and it would be better for you and him if you showed him that you won't put up with it. you don't wanna be one o' them "enablers".

he does not deserve your friendship. he fucked up in a way that if you continue to interact with him will confirm that it's okay to do that to women. you really need to ditch him. just stop talking to him. it's hard, but then it gets really easy.

yes, please do not be his friend. I will worry about you. start screening your calls. do not answer when he calls. never call him. please.

refer him to professional help. Walk away. You may want to talk to someone for a couple sessions your self, it helps.

i just checked my email, and there was an email from him. he's on his way to seattle. it's good. he'll be back in a few weeks... so i'm bothered because in his letter he said that he forgave me for all of the things that went bad between us. that really pisses me off... i don't know... once this guy did something really bad to me... and i told my friend afterwards cause i was scared. this boy asked me if i told anyone. i can't lie, so i said yes. he told me that he could never forgive me. i'd violated his trust. it didn't matter that he fucked me up and that i was upset because of the bad thing he did. i was about to say that women don't hurt me so much, but then i remembered my mother... and me too. i've hurt people. i obviously hurt this guy. i am going to ignore the email. i need more time to think about it. i can be nice and strong at the same time. i just have to figure it out. :) thank you all for your concern.

HE IS AN IMMATURE LEACH (i think) he will make you feel bad for the bad things that he does. he will push your buttons. don't be nice don't be nice don't be nice

where is this guy in seattle? i will find him and make him cry. i really will.

I have some large friends in Seattle who would cheerfully hold him down for you, Agatha.

ahhh... that is a nice offer. i don't know where he's going exactly. pisses me off though. i mean he gets to leave and not me. i'm a jealous individual when it comes to people leaving this hellish place.

forget it. he is miserable wherever he goes.

He sounds like a shit-head to me.For tips on making his life a living hell,e-mail me,I,m good like that.

He says he "forgave" you "for all of the bad things that happened"?? This piece of shit needs to be castrated - after all, you don't want a deviant like that making little hellspawns. Cut him from your life so that he can never hurt you or anyone else again.

Right on!!!!

I hate women abusers as much as I do an animal abuser. Although women abuse men as well, those cases not being as common- and I mean physically abuse because women as well as men abuse mentally quite often. Anyway leave this guy be only trouble will come to be. Unless he goes to a psycologist even then that is a long process before he can be cured of this. That is if that is even possible. He might be to far gone for help from anyone. Good luck-mace him if there is a next time and hit him with bat-if that does'nt work run like hell or shot him in the leg and casually walk away.

A little high, are we?

I was checking my email last night and he talk requested me. He hasn't left his home yet for Seattle. He had to work some things out first. He was talking away, and I told him that I was still really freaked out, and that I needed some time to work on things. I asked him not to try and contact me until I give him an okay. I told him that if he kept hanging out then I would worry about making him better and not me. So it was a meek stand, but... I did take care of me.

good start. ditch him altogether now. what is he doing in seattle? and where is he going to live, did you say?

Madre mios, this reminds me not to post on one thread but check em all.. bell jar, you need to be put in a bell jar. why don't you fuck off and let people who like to talk talk instead of making up these fucking stupid posts. what the fuck is your problem homey? Are you that fucking bored or depraved that you gotta live on the milk o human sympathy. I got two words for you, 'fuck' and 'you.' if im wrong and half the shit you saying is true, well, i apologise.. stranger things have happened. but i fucking doubt it. pendejo.

Hey Japalano: Why don't you hop alongo right off this board -- I noticed a bunch of your whiney ass posts this a.m. about your father or some such shit which were too boring to even wade through. Hit the road pendejo.

Japalono, let me hold the door for you, on your way out.

I think he could probably haul his dubious-story telling, gender-assumin', pink-boy ass underneath the door. Where has Bell_jar been? I thought she might become a "regular" but perhaps not...

Oh, please. Like noone here's ever made any dumb assumptions or said something something to get my mandibles clicking. Not that I mind everyone posse-ing up, and all, but I thought we rolled the welcome wagon out first as a sort of test, these days. In that vein: fuck you, you ass.

what's the story with the spanish? somewhere else japalano said he was from south africa. not a country i associate with that language, but what do i know. chinga tu puta madre, pinche japalano.

i like jalapeno and pepperoni pizza.........

What's a japalano?

It,s a real hot pepper.

Margret, I suddenly felt very protective of the people on this board after reading that dickhead's post (not that anyone here needs my verbal protection -- I'm sure anyone could flame him mucho mejor than me.)

That's a jalapeno, J. He spells it japalano

Perhaps he is mistaken about they way in which to spell jalapeno? I know not. Maybe he'll settle down after a while. Or... *poof*?

I think Patrick through me off with the pizza reference.

Threw me off,I just got up.

jalapen (insert ~ over "n") ae good on pizza.

need a reason to be happy? the department of justice says it's safe to shack-up again. if that doesn't do it for you, the price of high-grade kaya in NYC is at an all-time low. share in my boundless joy.

I feel it's important to post at least one note everytime I come here so that I'll know when I was last here. follow? last night I had a dream that a guy I know was trying to ruin my car (I don't have a car). he had an accomplice, who I think was Peter Galliger (sp). I got so mad I picked the car up and threw it at the guy I know and then ran after him screaming about how I Hated Him. In reality I don't hate the boy, I think he's very dear. I chased him to the elevator and screamed some more and he stopped and turned around to chase me. I really wanted to get away from him. I tried to dodge in and out of another elevator and hide behind corners but he kept spying me. Eventually I just straight out ran and he ran after me. The dreamed ended around then, so I don't know if he ever caught me, but I remember thinking he would because I'm not a very fast runner. I know what it means and I'm Still confused. sometimes it's hard to know if your own behavior is brave or cowardly. are you more afraid to jump, or stand where you are?

This is in no relation to the conversation at hand, but this is the best topic under which to post this so: My friend L. knows this guy A. She kind of likes A. but she thinks he's kind of creepy too. She thinks he likes her, though she's not certain, and she says she really doesn't want him to like her anyway. He asks her to go places with him (like to plays and such) all the time, and she always turns him down because she doesn't want him to think that going-with-him-to-a-play = date. He told her that he was leaving for home at the end of the month, and she felt bad that she never agrees to go anywhere with him, so she invited him to come and see her at the little tavern/pub-type thing near her apartment. Apparently he sounded way too enthusiastic when she opened this invitation to him, so last night she called me and our friend S. to go with her so that he wouldn't get the wrong idea and start any romantic shit with her (her words). So we show up and he's there, and he's a really nice guy, and it is so obvious he likes her. But this is just the thing....he would not leave her alone. He was so hovering! He jumped at every gesture she made that could possibly be understood as conveying discomfort or displeasure. He kept touching her on her hands and arms while we were seated in the pub, he helped her on with her coat even though she clearly didn't need help, he put on her seat belt for her when we got in his car (for real!), he constantly (and I do mean constantly) complimented her.....it was so cloying! Even I was annoyed, and I wasn't even the one he was fawning over! When he started calling her her childhood nickname, she told him to get a grip, and then he acted all wounded...it was disgusting. But I am so glad I witnessed this because I had always thought that it would be so nice to have someone who paid attention to your every move and always let you know how important you were......but it's not nice! It's smothering! And it just lacks dignity. I'm so glad I'm not L. right now. At least he's leaving soon.

smothering is bad.

That guy is head over heels in love with your friend. Your friend should, if she hasn't already, lay it on the line for the guy that she is not available for that kind of relationship.

She has made it very clear ever since she first met him that she was not interested in dating him. Furthermore, she told me when she called me this afternoon that he had never acted like that before. One illustration: at one point the four of us went into a coffee shop and were just goofing around, and L. pulled down a magazine from the rack and made us all take one of the personality tests inside. He made a show of not wanting to reveal too much about himself [please]. Then, this afternoon, L. told me that when S. and I had headed out of the coffee shop, leaving L. and A. trailing after us, A. told her she owed him. For making him take the test. She said, "okay, I'll buy you a coffee." "No, you owe me more than that," he said. "Okay, I'll give you ten dollars. Does that cover it?" "No, you *owe* me." WTF? Then, when they were walking behind S. and me, he kept trying to put his arm around her. Not wanting to be rude, L. tried to make a joke out of it, telling him he shouldn't take such liberties with her. He only stopped when she forced herself between S. and me and linked her arms with ours so he couldn't get near her. She told me that after I left, he started really acting like a jerk. Sulking and muttering strange things under his breath when she and S. talked between themselves, for example. He also called her "dishonest" but wouldn't explain further. He must have thought she was leading him on. But she wasn't. I was there...she didn't do a thing to encourage his freaky behavior. She was, in fact, visibly annoyed with him and told him to knock it off at least twice. He just wouldn't leave her alone. [Side note: he made a point of telling me -- her friend of 8 years -- that I didn't know her as well as he did. What? She knows him from a class they had together in the fall and have gotten together socially -- and always in a "friend" way -- only 3 times before.] You call this love?

he's a freak. tell her to lose him.

Ok, maybe it's not love. I didn't have all that info before, though. Now I think she should just mace him.

Those kind become stalkers Rhi,he sounds scarey.I bet he can make himself cry to show how "sensitive" he is.

Yeah, he does sound like a stalker. I told her I predicted that if she got involved with him, in a month's time she wouldn't be allowed to see any of us or else he'd get jealous...then he would start getting mad if she disagreed with him on anything...then he would start insulting her...then he would start hitting her. She's a smart girl, though. She said she was so glad she saw him act like that when she did, because now she wants nothing to do with him anymore. And he's moving, and she's moving, so she won't have to see him again either. He annoyed the hell out of me when we were talking about psychology and he was contradicting me after everything I said. I was like, dude, which one of us has the psych degree? He could not admit that I was right. What a pig.