Touching Nerves


sorabji.com: The Stalking Post: Touching Nerves
THIS IS A READ-ONLY ARCHIVE FROM THE SORABJI.COM MESSAGE BOARDS (1995-2016).

By patrick on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 03:30 pm:


By Spider on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 03:49 pm:

    Hey....that sounds like somebody we know...


By semillama on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 04:37 pm:

    "George Will, a Washington Post columnist who has long suffered from ingrained conservatism,"

    hee hee hee hee.

    Hopefully, liberalism is next on their plate. I want to know how liberals end up looking like after such an analysis.

    Seriously.

    One thing the author could have noted is how the conservative traits apply to the typical suspicion of science that seems to permeate conservatives. Science, after all, is inherently ambiguous to a degree. As an archaeologist, I know this well. But just because everything is ambiguous to some extent, doesn't mean science is invalid. The anti-climate change types tend to gloss this over.


By Nate on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 05:57 pm:

    science is also not fit for the study of everything.

    especially supernatural things like liberals.


By Antigone on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 06:11 pm:

    Science is fit for the study of everything.

    Some people just don't understand what science is.


By TBone on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 06:12 pm:

    Science fiction does a better job, though.


By Nate on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 06:43 pm:

    you can claim that, tiggy, but you know as well as i do that it isn't a fact.




By Antigone on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 06:56 pm:

    Of course not. "Understanding" is hard to quantify into an observable phenomenon, upon which we can make testable hypotheses.

    But just because it's difficult that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.


By Nate on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 06:58 pm:

    ah, i see what you're saying.


By The Watcher on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 07:27 pm:

    I've never met a more screwed up type of individual than a psychologist. Of course most of the ones I met were professor's in college. And, they were the absolute strangest birds I've ever seen. No wonder none of them had practices.


By Nate on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 09:06 pm:

    FUCK YOU THE WATCHER.


By Hal on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 12:25 am:

    ASS GOBLINS BY THE HUNDREDS


By semillama on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 10:01 am:

    LORD ANTON WILL RECIEVE THE AMBASSODOR FROM GORILLA CITY AT 8PM. YOUR PRESENCE IS REQUIRED.


By The Watcher on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 01:39 pm:

    Well, I guess we now know what nate does for a living.

    However, I would never have guessed it.

    The psychologists I've met were much much stranger.


By Nate on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 02:00 pm:

    "Well, I guess..."
    "However, I would never have guessed it."

    You are really, truely, not one of the 8, my friend.


By spunky on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 02:22 pm:

    ?


By Antigone on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 02:27 pm:

    Watcher, you suprise even me with your cluelessness. For someone with the name "Watcher" you sure don't see much...


By The Watcher on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 02:36 pm:

    Brain overly numbed by mindless television I guess.

    What else is new.


By Dougie on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 02:39 pm:

    "You are really, truely, not one of the 8, my friend"

    Who/what are the 8 Nate?


By Nate on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 04:20 pm:

    one of the eight people in the world who, like, _understand_, man.

    is hash really america's favorite hangover cure? can you believe i drank a ton of coors light last night and didn't even post to sorabji?


By sarah on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 06:28 pm:


    that is definitely in violation of code.



By Antigone on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 06:41 pm:

    Nate, I can't believe you drank a ton of coors light, period. You're better than that, man!

    At least drink Sam Adams.


By Dougie on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 06:47 pm:

    I've been drinking Sam Adam's Summer Ale lately, the one with the hint of lemon & grains of paradise (whatever that is) and with the Winslow Homer painting of kids sailing on the label. It's quite divine, I must say. I pick it up at BJ's by the case.


By sarah on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 06:49 pm:

    Dougie, that's been my beer of choice this summer as well. it is sooooo yummy.




By Dougie on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 06:55 pm:

    Yeah, ain't it, Sarah? Although they were out of it last week, so I picked up a case a regular Sam Adams, and it's almost too strong for me now, after having had the Summer Ale.


By patrick on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 06:59 pm:

    i wasnt going to say anything but you know, maybe nate is on a budget these days.

    fucking beer snobs.




By Dougie on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 07:01 pm:

    I chase my Samuel Adams Summer Ale with Tequiza Summer Cerveza. Sometimes I don't even bother with chasing -- I just mix 'em both together and down the hatch.


By Nate on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 07:01 pm:

    i was slumming with the community college crowd. when in rome, and all.

    there was this really hot dumb chick that i was thinking about taking home with me. then i decided that i don't do that. it was impressive.

    i like that summer ale. i haven't had any this season, though. maybe that's a sign of what tonight should bring.


By blindswine on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 11:05 am:

    10:10 AM
    40 ounces of bud.
    $2.75.

    you're all still a bunch of pretentious cunts.







By Dougie on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 11:15 am:

    Not me. I'm a pretentious asshole.


By J on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 12:38 pm:

    No pretensions here,I'm just a plain old asshole.


By TBone on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 12:48 pm:

    I'm not being pretentious, I'm just better than everybody else.


By J on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 01:13 pm:


By semillama on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 07:04 pm:

    I used to be pretentious, but then I bought a nice tent this summer.


By Hal on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 12:06 am:

    To drunk to be pretentious.


By Lapis on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 07:34 am:

    The last few times I've gone to the bar, all I've drunk are cape codders. Tonight I branched out and had a lord of the dance.

    Yay me.

    I shall be a superhero for halloween, rebound girl. That's all I've been lately. I appriciate the attention I've been getting but all they want is ass. Anybody's ass. And the drunken fool's ass has tended to be mine.

    I sound bitter. I need sleep. I actually said no tonight and he walked me home and I told him that he was treating his other rebound girl really shittily.


By Hal on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 02:11 am:

    Damn.... You are starting to sound like me.


By patrick on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 12:56 pm:

    Cape Cods?


    for the beginner, thats a hell of a drink to head for.


By patrick on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 12:58 pm:

    oh wait....i was thinking of a Long Island ice tea.


    lappy....try this.....as I think the cranberry can be a bit much....order a vodka tonic with a "spaash" of cranberry. Personally, I like this better as the tonic adds bubbles and its not so acidic and you don't have to constantly pee like a racehorse due to excess cranberry juice.

    plus it makes your drink pink.


By kazoo on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 01:03 pm:

    I don't have to pee any more when I drink cape codders...only straight, unsweetened cranberry juice makes me pee more. And a cape codder made with that sounds vile, simply vile.

    When I'm not drinking beer:

    stoli-razberi tonics with extra limes. yum.

    I also like frilly martini cocktails, like cosmopolitans.


By Dougie on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 01:06 pm:

    I really don't like those Cuban drinks called Mojitos, but I do like the Brazilian drink which is kind of similar, but without the mint. The name escapes me though. But yeah, just give me a beer anytime.


By patrick on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 01:34 pm:

    well you know, they suggest cranberry for infections because its a direuretic as I understand and well.....there's nothing better to get your crap on in the mornings than a tall glass of cran


By kaz on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 01:36 pm:

    I drink unsweetened cranberry juice from time to time, but I have never noticed it help get my crap on.


By Nate on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 02:07 pm:

    i've recently found that a glass of apple juice will blow me out. i don't recall this ever happening in the past, but hey, i'm not complaining.


By wisper on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 02:48 pm:

    nate is a man who enjoys a good shit.
    i respect that.


By patrick on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 03:08 pm:

    yes nate, apple juice too. and like you, its been a recent discovery. i love apple juice and it used to never have that effect.


By Nate on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 03:19 pm:

    hooray for fruit blood!


By Antigone on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 03:43 pm:

    It's the pectin in the apple juice, Nate.

    Try a swig of apple cider vinegar. You'll explode. :)


By patrick on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 04:11 pm:

    but why would our bodies seemingly over night have this response to apple juice. its always been of my favorite juices. now I have to measure what im drinking and make sure im not leaving the house within the following couple of hours


By semillama on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 04:17 pm:

    it's because you are turning into an OLD MAN.


By Wooderson on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 04:25 pm:

    That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age.


By patrick on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 06:19 pm:

    absofuckinlutely wooderson.


By moonit on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 10:28 pm:

    Plus apple juice helps the water you drink to be asorbed better.

    So if you don't drink lots of water you should have apple juice.

    I'm still speaking gibberish after a weekend of drunkenness with workmates from around the country. I need about 40 more hours sleep, and to detox.


By Lapis on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 12:05 am:

    (Little note, I was feeling particularly pessimistic when I wrote that post. Too much drama.)

    I like Cape Codders. My old karaoke buddy (who is now my bartender) got me hooked on them. Looks pretty, tastes nice, not overly sweet. If I'm not drinking that, I'll have Pabst.

    So far I've tried:
    Long Island Iced Tea (on my 21st) (not bad but I can't remember if I liked it or not)
    Cape Codder
    Lemon Drop (Yum, when I'm feeling froufy)
    Mint Julep
    Lord of the Dance (tastes sortof like cherry coke)
    Whiskey Sour (normally I don't like whiskey much but I'll drink these)
    Tequila (plus karaoke makes me a silly silly girl)
    Whiskey (I really don't like it much, but after a few drinks it's okay as a shot)
    Pabst
    Pacifico (if I'm at the overcrowded hipster bar I might as well treat myself to something other than Pabst)
    Sparks (get two Sparks and a can of coconut juice and play kickball)

    Cranberry isn't for getting your crap on, I think, but it's good for bladder infections. I enjoy it.



By Nate on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 12:36 am:

    a twelver of pabst will get your crap on.


    get mine on anyway. the velvet foam. mmmm.


By Hal on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 12:58 am:


By Hal on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 01:03 am:

    You know there's nothing but love.


By Nate on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 01:24 am:

    woah hal.


    i just had a premonition.


    it's a future sorabjifest.


    you're passed out..


    with your arms wrapped around...

    the toilet.


    and

    i'm pissing on you.


    oh man.

    never pass out before me!


By Lapis on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 01:32 am:

    A twelver? Riiiiight. I'm a slow drinker.


    Nate, I want to see that. If it ever happens and I'm not there, pictures must be taken.


By Hal on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 01:53 am:

    That won't happen, I've only ever passed out hugging a toilet once in my lifetime.


    And Nate, I'll hold my own drinking with you buddy.


By Stinkoman on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 01:58 am:

    ARE YOU LOOKING FOR A CHALLENGE!!!!!!!


By Nate on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 02:05 am:

    I've passed out hugging a toilet so many times. I've ripped the toilet seat off and passed out in the shower. I've passed out on lawns. I've passed out under grandstands. I've passed out in moving cars. I've passed out in parked cars. I've passed out on couches, chairs and wrapped around ottomans. I've passed out during sex. I've passed out during breakfast. I've passed out during phone conversations with irate girlfriends.

    It doesn't sound like you've had much experience, Hal.




By Lapis on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 02:15 am:

    Oh, you could be awake too.

    I've never passed out. I have, however, perched gracefully in a chair during a party and taken a nap.


By kazoo on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 02:21 am:

    I was wondering how you could possibly assess your tolerance having only passed out once at the toilet. Unless, of course, you increased your drink consumption over time so precicely that your were able to increase your tolerance without having to suffer any consequences. In that case, you are much to anal to be drinking with Nate, or even drinking at all. Maybe you should be dusting your pencil erasers.


By moonit on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 03:01 am:

    I have a picture of me passed out on the stairs from my weekend booze trip. Not good.


By Hal on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 06:56 am:

    Oh don't get me wrong Nate, I've passed out many many places. However only just once hugging the porcelain throne. I'll drink with you Nate, and I WILL hold my own. Hell based on my trip to Virginia if we're drinking at a low enough elevation I might very well beat your ass drinking.

    Kazoo, did you just call me anal?


By kazoo on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 10:48 am:

    Well, it sounds like you increased your tolerance the good old fashioned sloppy way so...no.

    Why, are you anal? I am about some things. I'm anal about how my dishes are put away.


By Nate on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 11:55 am:

    Hal, buddy, I'm not saying I can beat you in some drinking contest. I honestly have no idea. I've practically quit drinking and have dropped 30lbs and I'm sure both of those contributes to my ability to consume in quantity.

    It was just a premonition, man. They're always wrong anyway.


By Hal on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 12:13 pm:

    1: Not anal about anything but my job, but when dealing with drunk assholes night in and night out. It pays to be an anal retentive asshole most of the time.

    2: Good Nate, I'd rather not get into a drinking contest anyway, I'd rather kick back with you and have a few beers. Seems to me like that would be more fun.


By patrick on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 12:42 pm:

    now nate, how can you say you've quit drinking then mention, seemingly, almost every week about pounding one twelver of coors or another.


By Nate on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 12:53 pm:

    c'mon patrick, that's what i mean by 'practically'.


By patrick on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 01:01 pm:

    oh hey buddy....no judgement here. i slurp a bit of hooch, be it bit of wine or a quart of beer every night.


    "medicine" as my grandfather used to call it.


    it doesnt help that trader joes is a half a mile away, and the wine conglomerate puts out "studies" like this


By J on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 01:35 pm:

    I'm not into wine,but my s/o is and he raves about the Charles Shaw wine they carry at Trader Joes,they call it two buck Chuck.


By patrick on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 01:48 pm:

    yes, the "2 Buck Chuck" is all the rage. It was written up in the NY Times several months ago and the recent influx of NYC transplants....its all they can fucking talk about. They can't grasp the idea of a decent $2 bottle of wine.

    Im over the 2 Buck Chuck though.

    But nonetheless....they have countless others.


By sarah on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 01:51 pm:

    prac·ti·cal·ly (prktk-l) adv.

    1. In a way that is practical.
    2. For all practical purposes; virtually.
    3. All but; nearly; almost.
    4. Kinda sorta not really.
    5. Sshhhhyyeaah right.






By kazu on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 01:51 pm:

    Charles Shaw wine rocks. I love love love red wine.

    Another thing I am anal about is food storage. I HATE when people put food in the fridge and they don't cover it properly. It even makes me anxious. Roommates often thanked me for putting their food into proper tupperware and rubbermaid containers for them. Believe me, I wasn't doing it for them. I think it stems from when I was little and stayed at my grandmother's house. There was always unwrapped food and it was hard and sometimes had this waxy film on it. Vile.


By patrick on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 01:55 pm:

    i read this a few weeks ago.


    its an interesting article about wine labeling.

    I admit to being a sucker for the Yellow Tail recently...it IS a neat label, but moreover the fucking Shiraz and cab/shiraz are my favorite wine, chilled, this summer.




    "And now, a few words from your Syrah"


    By James Ricci, Times Staff Writer


    As they're being bottled, most wines — the slightest nuances aside — look pretty much the same.

    But slap a label on that bottle and, suddenly, there's so much information, both explicit and subliminal, that it's almost impossible to take it all in.

    In addition to the raw data — the vintage and all that — the label tells you who the winemakers are, who they think you are and the sort of wine they believe they're producing. As wine brands proliferate, the art of label design has become an intense exercise in psycho-marketing, requiring teams of skilled people to determine the message and make it leap from the shelf.

    Does the buyer see himself as a connoisseur who knows his Échezeaux from his Eiswein? A bold spirit who refuses to bow to tradition? A hipster who thinks a wine with a cool-looking minimalist label is just the thing to bring to a dinner party?

    There are wine labels specifically vying for each one's attention. And when you consider that about 80% of wine is bought directly off the shelf, it begins to become clear: That little sticky-back piece of paper has a lot of power.



    Follow the kangaroo

    Nowhere is wine label design more crucial to sales than with the less expensive brands aimed at occasional wine drinkers and inexperienced young consumers who want something festive-looking to take to a party.

    For the current trend in splashy, colorful label design for lower-end wines, we mostly can thank the wildly successful Australian brand Yellow Tail, whose whimsical leaping kangaroo has makers of other low-priced wines hopping in emulation.

    "Now you're getting a plethora of brands with kicky names and colorful graphics — people fishing in the shallow end with flashy lures and baits," says Rob Celsi, vice president of brand development for Trinchero Family Estates in St. Helena, Calif.

    But how does a winery make its label stand out amid the colorful din?

    Seattle designer Stephen Black faced such a challenge in redesigning the label for the Talus line of wines, which retail for about $7. The concept grew from his conversation with Talus' winemaker. "I asked her what she does that makes Talus wines unique, and she said, 'I don't do anything special. I get out of the way and let the grape do its thing.' "

    So Black came up with a painterly rendition of a single grape floating in a disembodied, Magritte sort of way over an incongruous setting. For white wines, a green grape hovers over a sandy desert; for reds, a purple grape hangs suspended above a stormy sea — all in vivid color.

    "Part of my approach was to try to create contrast," Black says. "I wanted to pique consumers' interest with counterpoint, contrast, something very unexpected; something innovative with traditional clues. You have to find some way of creating a unique and memorable image without looking garish or cheap."

    Black further emphasized the traditional by modifying the "a" in Talus to resemble ancient Roman lettering. The typeface, moreover, is slightly condensed, "meaning you can make it larger without it looking horsey," he says.

    Finally, he opted for a vertically elongated label, which makes the bottle look a bit taller and more slender — features generally associated with more expensive wines. But not too tall or slender.

    "This is all about perceived quality at a certain price point," Black says. "You don't want to over-deliver graphically; you want to make sure consumers don't expect so much that when they try the wine they're disappointed."

    While the battle of the bottom shelves is waged with color and drama, at the high end of the price scale designers are increasingly wed to the concept of less is more.

    "Everyone is trying to achieve an image of perceived rarity," says Napa label designer Jeffrey Caldewey. "It's the idea that if you have to put a lot of type and gaudy graphics on your package, you're trying a little too hard. The more restrained and elegant labels are meant for the restaurant or dining room table, as opposed to trying to leap off a shelf into your lap."



    For $40, artwork

    After Napa designer Anthony Auston was hired to devise a label for Joseph Phelps Vineyards' Ovation Chardonnay, which sells for about $40, he was asked to devise something "like a museum book, something hot, contemporary, somewhat minimal, but also timeless," Auston says.

    He and his colleagues "banged our heads on our desks trying to figure out how we were going to represent a grape leaf or a grape cluster or a vineyard this time around — when you've designed hundreds of wine labels, this can be a problem. So we grabbed our cameras, a bag of chips and a six-pack and headed out to the vineyards to figure it out."

    Eventually, Auston settled on a very minimalist white label bisected by a straight black horizontal line with a squiggle in its middle.

    "Nearly everyone who looks at the label takes a closer look," he says. "Most think it's a section of barbed wire. Actually, it's the remnants of a grape tendril clinging to a length of trellis after the winter pruning."

    It's an intriguing image, set off by the clean elegance of the rest of the label, which is extra-wide and sits low on the bottle. Auston chose uncoated paper stock because it gives the impression of being handmade and expensive, unlike coated stock that looks mass-produced. In a retail setting, coated stock can reflect bright overhead lights, making the label harder to read.

    To balance the contemporary with the traditional, he used a classic typeface but set the letters widely apart so that white space flowed easily around them.

    In recent years, improvements in printing and labeling technology have allowed designers to introduce labels in virtually any shape — a trend that has been playing out at all price levels.

    Labels and overall bottle appearance can radically affect sales, wine marketers say. An effective label, however, is not just visually clever, says Jim Lapsley, a UC Davis professor and expert on wine marketing.

    "The real importance of a label is that it graphically express the brand identity," he says. "If a winery owner can't really describe the main points that differentiate his or her brand from others in its genre, then it is difficult for a designer to capture that brand identity in a label."



    Alluring pheasants

    In 1998, Bogle Vineyards jettisoned its old label, replacing it with a smaller, more elegant label with an unusual inverted egg shape and a discreet, tasteful drawing of two pheasants. The classier label was intended to reflect a general upgrading of Bogle's vineyard and winery practices. Since the introduction of the label, which was designed by Auston, Bogle's sales have increased 320%, or about of 25% a year.

    Bogle executives attribute a major role in the increase to the new look.

    Sales "just keep growing and growing even now, despite the tight wine market," says Chris Catterton, Bogle's marketing vice president. "The new label was a perfect fit for us. It helped communicate we were dedicated to quality and came from a farming background. Every so often you get it exactly right."

    Many marketers estimate the life of a label to be five or six years, particularly for lower-priced wines that must compete for "shelf impact."

    Designer Susan Pate, whose elegant label for Robert Mondavi's ultra-premium Opus One has remained unchanged for 25 years, ascribes much of the instability and outlandishness of label design to "corporate marketers staggering around for trends" instead of allowing designers to communicate a winery's uniqueness.

    "When you approach it in the latter way, unless the winemaker is schizophrenic and wants to change everything, the label that results tends to be a classical statement," she says. "If it has the right energy to begin with, it will have that energy five years or 20 years from now."

    In the fluid, individualistic and ultracompetitive wine business, one fact about label design is abundantly clear: No trend will be long-lived or apply across the board. As soon as the herd seems to be moving in a certain direction, someone quickly defies the trend in hopes of setting apart his wines. And if his defiance is, in turn, perceived to be starting a trend, someone else instantly rises to defy it.

    "I can guarantee you," says designer Rick Tharp of Los Gatos, "if everybody's producing expensive wines with tiny little labels, somebody's going to come to me and say, 'Rick, I want the biggest label you can design.' "


By sarah on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 01:57 pm:


    petite syrah and red zin are my favorites. i think shiraz sucks ass.



By kazu on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 02:04 pm:

    I had the most incredible zinfandel the other night with dinner. I forgot to write the name down. Zin, in my book, is always and only red.


By patrick on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 02:08 pm:

    im a zin junkie too. im tellin you sarah, i dunno if they have trader joes there, but Yellow Tail shiraz is the shit.

    Australian reds have been really damn good in the last year.

    I dont understand how you can like zin and diskike shiraz.

    I understand intense drought and heat are good for wine. The silver lining in the recent heatwave in europe. didnt the land down under suffer from a bitchin heatwave and drought last year?


By patrick on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 02:10 pm:

    in fact, arent Syrah and Shiraz virtually the same variety of grape just from different regions?


By Nate on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 02:12 pm:

    thank you, kazu. i believe sarah specified red zin because a while back patrick threw a shit fit about trailer trash when i mentioned my favorite wine was zin.

    and i think that 2 buck chuck is foul.

    but only because i am nocal.




By kazoo on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 02:14 pm:

    You can buy Yellow Tail elsewhere. I like it okay. My problem is that I can never remember to write down which ones really strike me as wonderful.

    I don't drink much white wine, but I had some australian chardonnay a few years ago that was incredible and I can't remember what it was called.


By Nate on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 02:18 pm:

    syrah is grown in france, shiraz in oz.

    petite syrah is a different grape.


By kazu on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 02:18 pm:

    I would assume she meant red zin, especially if she was pairing it with petit syrah. I just like to establish my snobbish elements.

    "but only because i am nocal."

    My friend Yael gets mad when I don't buy wine from cali.


By patrick on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 02:18 pm:

    that was like, 10 years ago.

    sheeesh.

    i didnt know much about wine then, nor do i now, but as far as i knew then, zin referred to that shit in a box at the store. blush, rose, white zin.

    it was an honest interpretaion by an amateur, but you see, nocal peeps get all uppity when talkin to amateur winos.

    but then they go and drink a twelver of coors and dredge any credibility through the shitter.


By Nate on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 02:23 pm:

    heh. coors is a solid, consistant american lager.

    and cheap! and what the hootchies is drinkin!

    and besides, i'll drink $2 chuck. i drink just about anything. doesn't mean i don't think it's foul.


By patrick on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 02:35 pm:

    for my information as well.

    "Petite Sirah is a grape whose origins and the spelling of its name have been a subject of conversation. We now know that most of the Petite Sirah in California is actually a grape called Durif with most of the rest being Peloursin. The Durif grape was developed in France in the late 1800s by Dr. Durif by crossing Syrah and Peloursin. Over time since the Syrah grape was brought from the Rhone River Valley of France in about 1870 and called Petite Sirah, the Petite Sirah name has become almost a catch-all name for old red grape vines in California that were not otherwise identifiable. It is only since we have been able to use DNA testing to properly identify grape varieties that we have been able to unravel the mystery of Petite Sirah

    The Petite Sirah grape grows in very tight bunches and is susceptible to rot. In growing regions without much rainfall (like California) this does not represent a problem. In areas with rain during the growing season it practically disqualifies the grape. Under the right conditions, Petit Sirah can make strong red wines with peppery flavors."

    Syrah/Shiraz
    "It produces full rich wines of intense color and flavor. In warmer climates like Australia, the grape produces wines that are sweeter and riper tasting. In cooler climates like the Rhone valley of France, it often has more pepper and spice aromas and flavors. Syrah usually becomes drinkable at an early age and most are produced for consumption within a year after release (2rd year from harvest). On the other hand, there are Syrah/Shiraz examples of very long lived wines such as Hermitage in France and Penfold's Grange in Australia."



    like i said, without being a total wine snob, i would think if you like one, the other wouldnt be a stretch






By kazu on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 02:37 pm:

    damn you people.

    I had a gift certificate for potter barn and purchased some adorable wine goblets. I haven't used them yet, but now I can't think about doing anything else. SO, after I go to staples and purchase a paper shredder I am going to get some wine and tonight, after some department gathering on campus, I am going to drink wine and shred old bills and bank statements.

    Can you think of anything more exciting than that?


    You guys have twenty minutes to recommend something.


By patrick on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 02:41 pm:

    hey kaz....im going to be in atlanta this weekend. im not sure we'd have an opportunity to meet.


    maybe though. what are you doing?



    like i said....if its nice and warm there...id recommend a good red, chilled.

    AS fas as zin goes. Berringer makes a good zin as does Ravenswood. On the cheap, BlackMountain has a good zin.


    i still advocate the Yellow Tail Shiraz or Shiraz?Cab


By J on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 02:42 pm:

    Rent a movie? I finally got to see Chicago this weekend,loved it.


By kazu on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 02:46 pm:

    Aside from a thing on Saturday afternoon, I have no plans so yes, let's try to get together.

    E-mail me and I will send you my phone number.


By kazu on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 02:50 pm:

    thanks J. You know, that hadn't even occured to me.


By Nate on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 03:04 pm:

    ravenswood is divine. if you can justify the money, i think ravenswood old hill ranch zin will curl your toes. after that, go for the ravenswood sonoma county "old vine" zin. ooo man. i'm wanting wine. the vinter's blend is often excellent, too.

    of course, i missed the deadline.






By kaz on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 03:08 pm:

    Nope, I'm leaving right now.

    Thanks!


By patrick on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 03:16 pm:

    i've found ravenswood between $10-15, but thats a rarity.


By Nate on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 03:25 pm:

    i think the vinters blend is generally in that range. wine.com has it for $9.99. The sonoma county will run closer to $20. the old hill is probably a lot more. especially when you figure you really want the '95.

    heh.

    i need a fucking job.


By sarah on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 03:33 pm:


    seghesio zin. un fucking believable shit.



By patrick on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 03:34 pm:

    TJ doesnt stock it on a regular basis...so I hit this neighborhood liquor store that has a pretty eclectic and expensive wine selection, so the prices arent the best, but they have the rare shit you're looking for.


    id love to knock off right about now, sit in the baby pool with eva and sip a delicious chilled glass of that stuff.


By sarah on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 03:41 pm:


    V. Sattui is my favorite napa winery. i don't know about sonoma.



By sarah on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 03:44 pm:


    oh, the grapes may or may not be similar, but as far as taste goes, there's a HUGE difference between petite sirah and shiraz.



By Nate on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 04:02 pm:

    you should know about sonoma.

    fuck napa.



    i'm still have trouble with chilled zin.

    maybe you'd like to try some franzia?


By patrick on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 04:07 pm:



    when its 95 degrees out, room temp doesnt exactly cut it. its actually luke warm at that point.

    you have to chill in these summer months.


By Nate on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 04:31 pm:

    it isn't supposed to be room temp. it is supposed to be cellar temp.

    but i have this picture of you in your wife beater with ice cubes clinking in your jar of zin.


By patrick on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 04:46 pm:

    i dont put ice in it doofus. thats wrong.

    and well, im not sure i want to store my wine in the crawl space, so you gotta chill it a bit otherwise its heartburn sauce





By Dougie on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 05:48 pm:

    King's Estate Pinot Noir from Oregon's pretty awesome.


By Dougie on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 05:56 pm:

    This is also pretty awesome.


By kazu on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 07:45 pm:

    I got the ravenswood zinfandel, vinters blend for $9.99 at Whole Foods.



    I have poured it into one of my adorable wine goblets...hmmmm smells nice.....




    (she drinks)












    oh yeah, that's good. I like that.


By kazu on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 07:53 pm:

    Holy Shit!

    This is what I had with dinner the other night.

    Damn.

    I'm having one of those, "this is what I thought it would be like--but hardly ever is" moments. Sitting in my living room...in my pajama pants, drinking wine...you know, this is the image I had of myself when I was younger...what I thought life would be like, but it never feels that way. It feels that way right now.

    That will change in a moment when I break out my new superduper paper shredder.


By Nate on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 09:14 pm:

    TJs had that vinters blend for $6.99, so i bought one. and a bottle of yellow tail. and some other shit.

    goddamn you people for making me buy some all this wine.


By patrick on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 09:20 pm:

    fucking A


    so i leave early, not to dig some wine and the baby pool, but because nico is in vegas, and im trying to cut corners and keep our nanny bill reasonable...an hour off here, and there.

    eva is bathed and napping.

    low and behold...a bottle of yellow tale shiraz chilling in the frig.

    goddamn you people for making me open some all the refrigerator to discover this bottle of vino.

    cheers fuckwads


By kaz on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 11:11 pm:

    So...I've been shredding...going through all the old boxes of bills and bank statements and shredding...shredding...shredding...the shredder that I got doesn't seem to do well with envelopes (but it does have a credit card slot) so I have been taking things out of envelops. So far I have found one MasterCard that I don't recall applying for.

    This, however, takes it...In one envelope I found FOUR tickets to the Beastie Boys/Rage Against the Machine Rhyme and Reason 2000 show on August 12, 2000.

    Please tell me that show was cancelled. Otherwise, why didn't I go? Why didn't the three other people go? For the life of me, I do not remember buying these tickets or being reimbursed for them, if the show was cancelled.


By Nate on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 11:14 pm:

    wow. maybe you're insane?

    you'll need another bottle of wine, dear.


By agatha on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 01:31 am:

    I'm enjoying this thread, for some reason.

    (she drinks)

    I liked that part.

    Cleo is away at camp all this week, and I am right now eating popcorn for dinner.


By Hal on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 04:28 am:

    You fuckwads, now I feel the need to go buy some wine and drink that shit...


By Venting Venting Venting on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 05:58 am:

    Your brain must be the size of an ants wee-wee
    because only a pencil lead headed idiot would post such an idiotic message. Just ram the bottle
    down your throat and you'll have a permanent bottle neck to catch you wee-wee size brain.


By sarah on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 10:47 am:


    yeah, you fuckwads. now it's not even 9 a.m. and i want to go and drink a bottle of wine.

    that does it.

    tonight i'm going to see the bats and sit on the veranda at the four season on the lake and drink the most expensive glass of wine they serve.

    then i'm gonna go out, stay up all night, pack my bags in the wee hours, and get on a flight to home sweet home, whereupon i will deplane, meet my friend lisa at my dad's house, grab the surfboards and off we go.



    hah. so there, ms. wine in pajama pants.


    :)



By Dougie on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 11:32 am:

    Real live flying bats? If so, throw small stones up towards them and they'll dive for them thinking they're insects.


By sarah on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 11:43 am:


    yes, real live flying bats.


    i saw them this same time last year and it was totally amazing. i didn't expect it to be as cool as it is. they fly out from under the congress avenue bridge, in order, starting from the south side and emerging along the bridge in a stream up to the north side of the bridge. millions of them. then a big dark cloud of bats flys down the river and back up to the bridge again.

    when you walk under the bridge during the day it stinks and you can hear them chirp.




By kazu on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 11:43 am:

    that contented feeling wore off soon enough.


    now I am ms. bowl of blueberries and cup of miso soup in pajama pants.


    I hope I'm not insane though.



    That would be bad. I was hoping that I would have tenure before I started losing my mind.



    Last night I had a dream about wee man from jackass.


By Lapis on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 10:15 pm:

    I am going to karaoke tonight and staying away from following others or letting them follow me home. Besides, my room's a mess (or rather, it was, it still is mostly and now my bed's covered in zines and vintage clothing).

    Tonight I'll branch back out of the Cape Cod capades and either try something new or go back to Pabst.

    Between now and later, I need dinner (I'm thinking a slice or two of some decent veggie pizza) and to check on cats. I'm playing kitty momma this week as a favor (I enjoy getting two cats to myself though). He gave me a key that's coated in flowerey enamel.


By cyst on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 02:01 am:

    we're serving rose at the wedding. ro-zay.


By dave. on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 02:32 am:

    make it a good one.


By Lapis on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 06:14 am:

    Wedding? Have I missed something or just unaware?


By J on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 05:31 pm:

    Yep Cyst is getting married:)


By Lapis on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 07:11 pm:

    Ooooh! Telltelltelltell!


By Nate on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 07:17 pm:

    i can tell you one thing. ol' nate ain't invited.


By Live studio audience on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 12:41 am:

    booooooooooooooooooooooooo!


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