I am energy and matter that may or may not matter. No matter, matter not, what's the matter? The matter of fact is that I am all kinds of matter combined by energy that wants to stay wound up but keeps unwinding and finding that the only way to matter is to have sex with some other matter so that our matter can stick around and figure out if it matters in all of these matters. So the matter is that matter and energy are all that matters and that is me!

I second that. I refuse to say anything cute, though.

Oh,if matter has sex with another matter,I guess they be making uh,batter.

wassamatta you?

I am my mastercard check card. ALBERTSONS SHELL HOHO RESTAURANT INC FABRIC DEPOT INC PILI'S LEMONADE STAND LIMBO INC TRADER JOES FRED MEYER GENESIS - A SALON FOR J. CREW MARKET BASKET THWY MEIER & FRANK GEORGIAN R TEXACO INC VICTORIAS SECR FRED MEYER GAP POWELLS TECH B0OKS SASSY'S BAR & GRILL TOWER REC-VIDEO TRADER JOES NORDSTROM FRED MEYER LIMBO INC TRADER JOES SUBWAY SANDWICHES CHEVRON FRY'S ELECTRONICS GI JOES BANANA REPUBLIC GAP WAL MART COLUMBIA SPORTSWR ZUPANS MARKET COFFEE PEOPLE INC GAP NORDSTROM THE GAP TEXACO MARKET BASKET THWY SAFEWAY NORDSTROM NORDSTROM RADIO SHACK WAL MART WAL MART J. CREW MARKET BASKET THWY NORDSTROM THE BALDWIN SALOON CANDAN HALICILIK SN TC NATURES NORTHWEST NORDSTROM CANDAN HALICILIK SN TC CANDAN HALICILIK SN TC CANDAN HALICILIK SN TC CANDAN HALICILIK SN TC GAP SDC TURIZM LTD STI

i am not a gap girl

I often feel like a walking gap commercial.

I hate the gap. Their clothes have no imagination. Whenever I go in their store (which I do to remind myself how much I hate them) I always come out feeling very cold and creepy and wondering how people can be happy buying clothes that have no spirit. It's really very disturbing.

your purchases indicate accordingly....

More memories: when I was in 7th grade, the Gap was It. If you were anybody in school, you had to buy your clothes at the Gap. If you wanted to become somebody, you started by shopping at the Gap. And you had to roll your jeans up and you had to tuck your sweaters into your jeans. And you had to pull your hair back into a half-ponytail with a scrunchy that matched your shirt. And you had to wear Keds. And you had to play volleyball.

My husband before he came out here to hook-up with me for good,was a manager for the Gap in Chicago,he told me that one day a woman came and asked if she could use the restroom,he told her to go up the street to a resturant to use the restroom.She got a pair of white jeans,went to a booth to try them on,she took a dump in the booth,and wiped with the jeans. I looove volleyball,got a mean serve.

J, you and Angry Sam would get along beautifully, and he is about your age too..............I would be curious as to who could drink more. He has been filming in Phoenix once or twice. Will keep you posted.....

This is all bashing Gap... If you're going to get mad at me for bashing Gap, don't read it. You will be much happier that way. I am boycotting Gap because of their use of sweatshop labor. However, it's not much of a sacrifice for me, as I have difficulty distinguishing between wheat color and cream color anyway, especially in artificial light. (Actually, that's not fair to Gap. They also have beige clothes) If you want to buy that sort of clothes, buy Levis. They are the one major jeans brand that actually has a code of conduct with regard to labor conditions. Anyhoo, Levi is having problems b/c people are buying cheap, shoddy, sweatshop-made crap at Gap (and its subsidiary, Old Navy), as Americans have completely abandoned their social consciences.

what about Banana republic? They make nice plain t-shirts which is all i wear, oh and they have decent socks too. I hate the lighting in Gap, in fact I hate the mall all together. I avoid it like the plague. In fact their (Gap) commercials are rather arrogant as well..

i kinda like buying clothes with my wife, she can pick up a shirt and immediately tell how it was made, how many stiches per inch, the quality of the fabric,the % it will shrink and all that happy shit and immediately tell me if it's worth it or not. I love to see a sales clerk who starts jiving about how great the fabric is how new it is etc etc and then my wife usually rhetorts with the facts, and the out of work actor in any given melrose ave cheap clothing shop looks completely dumbfounded and you can see them wishing they had kept that weekend shift job at the local Hard Rock.

banana republic, the gap and old navy are all the same company.

Bannana Republic is a Gap subsidiary. Sorry.

i will double check with my wife, but I do not think banana republic is, old navy and gap definitely.....

correction, they used to be seperate, not anymore

i want to say tj maxx got bought up by someone like the gap somewhere in the mix, notice the new 'hip" ads from them lately.....my wife says that company is skyrocketing from that move...

I love clothes, fabric, textiles. I like the gap because they have some clothes that will fit really tall and skinny people. right now I'm wearing an xl women's rib-knit lambswool sweater. the last time I saw it, the price was $24.95. that's how much I can spend on a wool sweater. everywhere else they cost more or don't have my size. last night I went to banana republic and found a an ankle-length, fully lined 100% wool gabardine skirt in a dark gray heather color. gorgeous. the 10 looked too tight on me, so tomorrow I am going to pick up a 12 in bellevue, washington. regular price $118, on sale for $29.99. oh fuck yeah. I could walk into a nordstrom, gap or banana republic with my eyes closed and tell which was which just by the smell. seriously. I know mall clothes have no personality, but I don't need my clothes to have personality. I like them to be made well, drape well, fit well. good fabrics, muted colors, fully lined if a skirt or dress or nice pants. I love the gap's men's boot-cut jeans. it's a great cut. too bad they're $48 and I need a new pair because I've found I can shimmy out of the ones I have without unbuttoning the waist. I've been doing the stairmaster 50 minutes, four times a week, and checking out my naked ass and thighs in the mirror. the transformation is really exciting to me. higher, firmer. I've been eating pie and cake and gravy so I don't actually lose weight. I just want a great ass. is that so fucking much to ask?

find me a url that says banana republic and the gap have separated. I don't believe it. they both have the same lip balm still. same ingredients in the same order, same address -- the only differences are spf and price (br $3.50, gap $1.75).

lucy, i don't think americans give a rats ass about social conscience when it comes to their wallets.....i can be guilty of that as well...but most of my pants are used levis cords...who may have been made in sweatshops in the 70s ..????....i find it amusing when people bitch about gentrification, "what about the mom and pop stores" etc etc etc yet SOMEBODY is going to the walmart to buy shit, SOMEBODY is keeping them in business, otherwise they would leave.....they oepened up a starbucks here in silverlake, and lot of folks bitched yet SOMEBODY is buying coffee there...not me of course, i do not accept their mocachino double speak. Large coffee please! Not grande, tall or short. but LARGE coffee, not of the day, not from some country I have never heard of...well actually thats not true, sumatra is my fav as is my local coffee house's "hair raiser" blend. I like it dark............so i think morality is a small factor when it comes to our wallet

They hadn't separated as of September 15, according to the labor action mailing list I'm on. Demo in Portland is scheduled for late Nov. to early Dec. But some people just gotta have their fashion. I don't understand it, but then, that's just not part of my cultural experience.

no cyst i said just the opposite......that url does not exist my wife could chat with you for days on that shit, thats all she does is play with fabrics and textiles, and some designing on the side. She buys and sells fabrics to companies like BCBG, DKNY and Bebe....she has it imported from Japan, she also has a sweater program she is doing for some company, kinda like the casual corner, the kind of shit our moms wear, she arranges the fabric, the knitting, the labeling, and the shipping. she loves it becasue she gets to work with designeer and come up with ways to meet their needs.... she has millions of swatches...she also gets alot of free samples and shit.....She scored this Gucci leather jacket as a sample that she brought home. it's pretty hot and it's a $200 sample, which means it retails for like $400-$500 bucks.....just like that.....she also did some japanese hand made scarves for DKNY which go to her flagship store in NYC and sell for like $400 a pop........she says they are aboslutely gorgeous and amazing fabric, but god damn, $400 for a scarve?

Trick, you sneak, you posted while I was posting :P Anyhoo, I have to get back to work, so I'll get back to you later. Regardless, let me say this... Americans' wallets can be used to communicate their ethics... because a corporation that won't listen to your voice will damnwell listen to your wallet... that's what boycotts are about. And I'm not sure where you're coming from here... Gap is not exactly a bargain-hunter's paradise, and, while Wal-Mart is cheap, the stuff lasts about a week and then you have to buy it again.

right now I'm wearing champion-brand sweatpants I got at walmart for $9.99. they're fine quality. I've also bought a hanes t-shirt there ($4.50?), and it's held up well also. my $10 leather belt from walmart has lasted longer than a $25 one I got in spain. I'm sure their wranglers are fine, too. you just have to stay away from the store brands, I think. any brand names you don't recognize. and the deal with the gap and banana republic is that you have to shop the sales racks. $24.95 for a lambswool sweater. $29.99 for an ankle-length, fully lined, wool gabardine skirt. these are not excessive prices. and I don't know how many stores there are that sell good-quality, affordable, natural-fiber clothing that was all assembled by first-world employees making above-poverty-level wages. levi's? ok. please name some more examples. I'd like to know.

i always walk straight to the back of the store, your right Lucy, but i think americans are too lazy, brand and price are everything, ethics are not when it comes to shopping.......also ignorance as well......

I only wear Levi 501,s,yes Patrick,I know I,d just love to hook-up with Sam,I,m sure we could find something to rip on,as we getted ripped.

i'm wearing levi's jeans today, but they're unkind to my package. i hate to say it, but CK is the best fit i've had in jeans. i only have one pair, a gift, and i took off the ass label out of embarassment. vain, i know. i shouldn't care. i try not to wear jeans anymore anyway. i recently became a fan of shopping. i don't know why. i love ties.

weird. I got in the car to go to the gym to work on my ass, and I had the radio tuned to a public station, and they were playing an interview with a guy who wrote a book about walmart. his last name's ortega. former wsj reporter. his book had a super long title, something like "in same we trust: the sam walton story and how walmart is devouring america." he went and personally inspected some of their subcontractors' factories in guatemala and found children working there. he told walmart he was working on a story about them and their foreign subcontractors' labor policies. he said their response was, no, none of our subcontractors use child labor. but guatemalans are small. you probably just mistook them for children. he had predicted this response and found some children whose births had been documented in hospitals. he had made copies of the birth certificates. he told walmart this. walmart said, ok, we'll get back to you. then they called him back, and said, ok. if you continue with this story, we will stop using this subcontractor, and every employee there will be out of work. ortega said he had discussed this possibility with the guatemalan workers, and they told him that the working conditions were so awful that they wanted him to spread the word, no matter what the consequence. so he wrote the story and the factory was shut down and the workers were put out of work. these pants were made in mexico.

you know what's funny about j's gap story, is that probably no gap employee had to clean up the mess but rather some overworked immigrant woman who was working as a janitor for some company that was paid to pay her very little to clean the mall at night. that'll show them, all right. but still. at what price art.

The difference between U.S. minimum wage and $0.50 a day tops is still huge. I'm not saying it's right... I fully support some serious living wage legislation in this country, but I just wanted to point that out. At least American workers have some protection.

you boost the minimum wage and it only hurts the poor. you think the rich and powerful are going to lose out? hell no. prices will just go up.

so how is your ass coming along cyst.....

that's a rush limbaugh argument. I cannot believe that prices for consumer goods would rise commensurately with hikes in the minimum wage. the retailers are still getting the shit from china, you know? they'll have to pay their clerks more, but I don't see how overall the prices would go up as much as the wages. and rush limbaugh and others don't seem to think in terms of how far that extra paycheck money would go not in america but in mexico. more dollars, way the fuck more pesos. oh si.

my ass is not great. I am working hard on it just to see what will happen. I flipped through all 600+ pages of the september vogue last night (while on the stairmaster). one article said that 90 percent of women have cellulite. I can't believe there's still no cure. it's basically the last potentially fixable problem area on my body. there's nothing else I would change, there's nowhere else I want to be leaner. it's getting rounder and higher and more defined. but I am afraid I am going to plateau. but I've only been doing this for a month, so maybe I can still get a lot more done. if nothing else, my cardiovascular health is going to be fantastic.

honestly cyst your full of shit if you think your ass is something that needs work..i would call that neurotic.....but thats ok, i have mine...your ass doesn't need any work other than between the sheets.......sorry to be so crass about it, but that deadly edition of vogue probably unconciously put you on the stairmaster for another 6 weeks. my wife has that thing (vogue that is) . She dropped it on my foot. Crutches were needed for a few hours..... i would call that neurotic.....but thats ok, i have mine

i'm insulted, cyst. if you boost the minimum wage up to $12 an hour, then everyone who was making $12 a hour previously would no longer be happy now that they're making minimum wage. the whole job market would correct. then there would be inflation, and status would be restored. and we'd be back to where we started, except the dollar would be worth less on the global market. there should be no minimum wage. it is anti-american, anti-capitalist. wage should be determined by real factors, such as ability. you provide a service, and are compensated in proportion to the scarcity of your ability. hooray capitalism!

No, nate, it's more like you provide a service and are compensated in inverse proportion to the ability of your employer to fuck you.

oh my goodness, so much to address here. let's start off with the most important thing: cyst's ass. the stairmaster won't help. do squats. bend at the knees and stick your ass way out and then stand up again and tuck those ass muscles in. do a lot of them, while holding heavy weights. matter: it's time to matter. the gap: when i get back down to my original weight (7 lbs. 10 oz.) i'm going to shop exclusively at the gap for like 6 months. i have a theory that once i start wearing gap clothes, i'll get promoted at my job. economy: the rich will not take a pay cut so that the janitor can get $.75 more an hour. no way. we're having a Matson strike here in hawaii (over there too? i don't know) or for fuck sakes, i want those Matson people to get a better wage, but it won't be coming out of the pockets of the higher ups. it'll be coming out of the pockets of the residents of hawaii, who will be paying more money for the goods shipped here. thus ends today's scripture reading.

not in my line of work. o, but that's because few people have my abilities. so i can demand the compensation i feel is appropriate. if no one would work for $5/hr, then companies would have to pay more. but the fact of the matter is, people will work for $5/hr. the market sets the minimum wage.

What's wrong with child labor? I have my kids out working the street corner right now. Also all this talk about asses and the gap......well you should see the gap in my ass:o)

so minimum wage goes up by, say, $6 to about $12. the job market corrects, and prices go up, and the dollar is worth less on the global market. so what? we all make more. everything costs more. the dollar is worth less. so what? I don't think it's the poor people who would really suffer from this. they now make $12 instead of $6. will their rent double? will the price of gas double? ground beef, walmart t-shirts, health insurance? would the dollar lose half its value on the global market if the minimum wage doubled? no way. what will cost twice as much? maybe some low-cost products that are more service that goods. like espresso, deli sandwiches, manicures, fast food. mostly unnecessary items. I guess the problem is that a lot of these service things will cost more, and fewer people will purchase them, and those employers will have to lay people off. and the economy may shrink as a result. but I'm too drunk to consider those implications. according to today's doonesbury, we're living in a post-ideological age. I shop at walmart and the gap. who gives a fuck.

cyst, why don't you drive through olympia on your way to bellevue? email me.

agatha - addendum to my message about how I can't stop in olympia today because I'm leaving at 11 a.m. specifically to futilely attempt to avoid rush-hour traffic anywhere on I-5: you should email me your phone number just in case my travel plans should ever call for a layover in olympia (on a sunday on my way back from seattle?). and next time you go out carousing in portland, I promise to come join you.

I asked my husband who had to clean up the shit in the dressing room,he made a girl that worked for the Gap do it. I wouldn,t have been cleaning other peoples business,s for minimum wage,I made $20.00 bucks an hour,which I thought was pretty good for me considering I don,t have a degree or anything.

I have to admit to liking Gap Jeans, but I blew out the ass in my favorite pair within a week. I like the cut and the fit, not so much the quality and the social conscience part. Anyway, they also always have women's long pants available so I don't have to buy the men's pants if I don't want to. Cyst and I should start designing and making flattering clothing for long women, though I am nowhere near as hard to shop for as she doubtless is. I have conservative tastes in clothing: I am a stitching bitch. I test seams and prefer skirts in conservative colors that can be dressed up with jackets, sweaters, or blouses with zing. I love linen shirts. My favorite clothes can be found in the Petermann's catalogue, because I like the catalogue and I like the lines. I buy cheap shirts at the Gap. I don't buy anything at WalMart, though I would consider buying tube socks there. I have to find bras that I like. Since the most recent Victoria's secret incident (I had them measure me and didn't like the results), I have been wearing sports bras exclusively, for the flattening effect. But I would like one or two nice ones, and I don't want to pay through the nose to get them. I mostly buy my clothes used. But not bras or undies.

see lucy, cyst and margret are exactly what i was referring to. People will get the best then can afford regardless of the morality of how it was made...........not knocking you cyst or margret, just making a point.....i am guilty of it too, i just do what i can, when i can......

hey agatha. I went to olympia today at 1 p.m. I had 81 cents. I drove through downtown, looking for a copy center. didn't see one. asked a couple crossing the street if there was a kinko's downtown. the woman said no, not downtown. I thought about calling you from the mcdonald's parking lot but just went to the texaco (shell?) instead. I pumped my own gas and got a bean burrito from the taco bell express inside. I asked for water, she said to get it myself, and then she charged me soda price for it.

i work at the kinko's in lacey. it's the next town over. damn. i was downtown by three oclock going to get cleo. you could have come to her school halloween party with me. i was a freakshow woman with a moustache, i hope i didn't offend the lesbian moms. where is a taco bell express?

i was at that texaco at about 12:15 getting gas and a car wash. my car was filthy. my car also reeks. i spilled an americano with half and half and i'm too lazy and cheap to get a can of lysol. i farted in it and couldn't tell.

ships passing in the night in olympia, or in the day at texaco...

Anyway, Nate, Cyst is right... the prices of luxury services go up more than anything else... and I have no sympathy whatsoever for the useless rich who can't make their own damned coffee if the price goes up to $7.00 a cup. Some programmer with stock options out the ass can choose to pay for that and, in our particular region, will do so, in large numbers, without even blinking. See, it's just like cigarettes... charge addicts lots of money legally, and give society a cut of it... you just don't like it because this time, the money is coming from your class for a change. The other thing that will go up is products, but not very much... the price will go up on products made in America, and there are very few of them... considering the number of orders of magnitude in difference between costs of operations in the US and other countries that already exists, doubling minimum wage will hardly have an impact on decisions whether or not to move. And for those American made products that it does impact, it won't even touch the cost of other overhead expenses for US production. (like those damned unfair environmental and occupational safety laws.) (BTW, did you know that on the job accidents still kill more people in this country than violent crime) So, what will it impact... well, living wage legislation might impact the ability of people to pay rent. Did you know that San Francisco has the highest proportion of working homeless in the country? It might impact on the quality of life for the poor. It might even, heaven forbid, cause some temps making $12 an hour to demand better pay, and maybe some benefits, and end up unionizing, which definitely needs to be done. As for your comment on "if there weren't people willing to work for $5 an hour", the US government deliberately maintains an unemployment rate of over 4 million Americans (that's a big part of what the Federal Reserve's interest rates are about) in order to keep wages down by keeping labor's position weak. In short, the corporations will pay workers absolutely as little as they can get away with... which would be fair competition, except that the US government is intervening on the behalf of the 1% of the population that controls 50% of the resources and against the majority of the American people. Fuck that. I am absolutely anti-corporation. I have no sympathy for Bill Gates, Ted Turner, or any of those fuckers. I think the US governement should be about the American people, not about a few plutocrats.

Oops. Was that my "outside voice?"

________ was at that texaco between downtown olympia and the I-5 entrance yesterday afternoon an hour and some minutes before me? that is so fuckingly weird. which county do you live in, ___?

once again, dave gives himself away. what a dork.

DUH. just for the record, i called it first. but ok, i had insider information. dave, try one nobody's seen before. happy halloween.

you're all tripping. i've never denied anything. i got tired of being dave, then i got tired of being friendly. it's hard being friendly all the time. i'm pretty much tired of being anything at all. so i just leave a blank for anybody to fill in as they see fit.

Lucy, I'd sure like to see some credible statistics backing your claim that "on the job accidents still kill more people in this country than violent crime." Until then, I call bullshit on that one.

Dave,for some reason,I thought you were the bottom line,did Agatha get my envelope?

this is plain common sense: you want to up the minimum wage. where will the extra money come from? the rich will certainly not allow it to cut their profits, so it will have to be passed on to the consumer. which includes those who have their minimum wage upped. so their upped minimum wage means nothing. the only thing that won't be effected is the production costs of foriegn goods. but american capitalists will boost the prices of imports along side domestic goods just because they can. so this leaves only one possibility: we'll print more money. yea right. so if it won't impact the economy, and we don't print extra money to cover a minimum wage hike, where will this money come from? i have more faith in trickle-down hoodoo.

i have little knowledge of economics, but this seems to make clear sense to me...... "you want to up the minimum wage. where will the extra money come from? the rich will certainly not allow it to cut their profits, so it will have to be passed on to the consumer. which includes those who have their minimum wage upped. so their upped minimum wage means nothing."

perhaps the issue that should be addressed is how to spread the existing wealth....taxing the mega rich 70% for public needs (this does not inlcude a mega superdome either unless tickets would never be higher than $5).....it's all about accessibility

In 1994, 0.5% of the tax paying population comprised 20.7% of total taxes collected. That's the 40% tax bracket. The 15% tax bracket is 72% of the popluation and 23.3% of taxes collected. The 15% tax bracket made 839 trillion in 1994. the 40% tax bracket only made 320 trillion.

yes, the numbers sound good, if you are advocating some screwy tax plan by steve forbes but how many people compromise 320 trillion and how many people comprise the 839 trillion.....23.9% of the planet xanax is fueled by thought alone

All I know is I,m taxed up the ass already,and I resent it!

Was it one of you people who said that you're "allowed" not to pay the federal tax on your phone bill, but if you don't your name is put on the list of subversives in the country? Or something? I know I read that somewhere...

the way i see it, it's not about what you're being taxed, rather what you're left with after taxes. if you make $20,000 and are taxed 10%, you're left with $18,000. if you make $200,000 and are taxed at 10%, you're left with $180,000. so what's the problem? as long as the taxes are spent on stuff we need, it's good for everyone.

j, i don't know about the envelope.

i think those who benefit from the system, i.e. the man with $180,000 vs. the guy with $18,000 should have a greater responsibility to the common good, but thats where i am a bit of a socialist.....i don't think they should be equalized, they should enjoy the fruits of their labor. i suspect one might say that it's natural selection so to speak, that the man with the more brains to make a wealthy enterprise for himself desrves the benefits, but i don't think people who are rich or people who are poor are in either of those situations strictly due to their brain power or lack thereof. The system we encourage can often keep people pinned....in poverty.......therefore the wealthy i think have a greater responsibility to help out the public,

who are 'the public' and why do they need help?

you and I and everyone else in the lower and middle class, and i don't mean help as in direct monetary help to the individual. But help as in schools, parks, public trans., health care etc etc etc etc........ i think school, including college should practically be free.......it should not cost tens of thousands for a higher education........good teachers are saints as far as I am concerned and they should also be paid accordingly.......

I second that,and now it,s even dangerous to teach.

i don't think college is for everyone. it is subsidized. you can go to a state school for low cost (fees are minor compared to the cost of running the school. i'm all for a flat tax. i think it's fucked up that people want to punish the successful for succeeding. a bunch of whiney parasites, america's underclasses. it says "the PURSUIT of happiness". individual results may vary. you don't have a right to my money. you are presented with an environment. a system. if you can succeed within this environment, your bloodline continues. if you can give your following generation a better platform to leap off of, your bloodline will have a better chance of continuing beyond you. but if your parents drop you off in the ghetto and say "best of luck, hoss." Well then, best of luck, hoss. it's not my fucking fault. my parents are in the 15% bracket. i grew up in a little well kept house wedged between corruption and depravity. i drank powdered milk, wore hand-me-downs from people i didn't know. my bedroom door wouldn't open all the way because my brother and my beds both had to be crammed in the little room. am i sitting in the 15% tax bracket and crying because the system is keeping me down? no. i figured the shit out and found my niche and now i pay 31% to the fed. if you can't do that, i'm sorry, but it doesn't entitle you to more of my money.

i just think with greater wealth theier comes a greater responsibility to your fellow man, but you think like a capitalist, i don't. yes college is subsidized but thousands are still spent after 4 years. I was at one of the cheaper state schools in NC and it still cost 7 grand or so a year...my community college that i attend is great, it's about $100 part time per semester....thats more like it but it's still a community college.....it's not regarded...my work is not regarded because i am being taught at a commnuity college. I could do commerical work if i spent 80 grand a year at Art Center in pasadena, easily......people have htis fucked up idea that your talents are based on the amount you spend on school...i am certainly not saying the system is keeping me down, but i do believe capitalism on the whole makes the rich richer and the poor poorer......i don't think we should offer handouts either..........damn nate you sound like steve forbes

I,ve been poor,I didn,t like it,God helps those that help themselves.I don,t like supporting all the third generation welfare mothers who keep having all these these kids by different fathers who I end up paying taxes to support them.Invest in the internet.

"damn nate you sound like steve forbes" i'll take that as a compliment.

As a good capitalist, you bet

the internet seems like a pit to me. All of these internet companies with kick ass stock portfolios do not have any hard cash to back their stocks up, and when the bottom falls out, it's gonna hurt, forget 1929...... excite recently bought bluemountain.com which was a non-money-making web site....they spent millions for this website basically just to increase traffic. I just don't trust internet businesses... and J "I don,t like supporting all the third generation welfare mothers who keep having all these these kids by different fathers who I end up paying taxes to support them." this is far less frequent than you may think. Teen preganancy is at an all time low and in several states the conservative welfare reform movement of the early to mid 90s has reduced those on welfare..

if I were rich, I'd probably be as grumpy as nate. but until I marry one of his kind and claim my rightful position within the privileged class, I feel like we should go ahead and tax them disproportionately because we can. they whine about it and lobby their legislators and all, but most of them, like nate, are sticking around, living their software commuter lives, buying up shit, paying taxes for the benefit of the stupider and lazier. it's all good.

patrick, do you really think you're a socialist? also- why do you assume what class i am in? and, NO ONE CAN BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYONE people act as if they have a right to be taken care of

thank you, heather.

first heather, why are you always bustin my balls, haven't you anything else to offer the boards? I think some of my ideas would be considered socialsit. would i call my self one? no. I don't assume what class you are in, I don't care, it was a general remark.......i think perhaps you are taking what i said very literally, as if i was advocating increased welfare and handouts to the poor.....if anything i advocate minimizing welfare and encouraging self help with people.......i HIGHLY encourage people to take care of themselves, but i also understand there are some folks that can be caught in a vicious social circle. Either due to ignorance, lack of accessibility to healthcare, birth control or whatever.... and last i checked what i was saying about increased taxation of the rich....i mentioned those funds should be directed to a greater good such as parks, school, pub trans etc etc....those benefit the whole not just the individual.....you may come to learn heather i like to take a sensible apporach to things, i can neither be pegged as conservative or liberal because neither side is entirely right or wrong....

"people act as if they have a right to be taken care of" indivudually, NO WAY! and i never said anything of the sort.....if i did please point it out to me. i tend to think in terms of community, a social order in which neither neglects nor offers a crutch. do you ever have anything happy to say

"I don't assume what class you are in, I don't care, it was a general remark" i was reacting to this- "you and I and everyone else in the lower and middle class" i wrote four sentances and i was not the only one to oppose what you said- why do you react so strongly to me? why do you take everything i say as if it were directed directly and solely to you? this is what you make me want to say- fuck you you mother fucking whiney loser poser. i react to what you say when i have an issue with it. you make vast assumptions about people and situations. you do a lot of name calling. (notice that i did not add 'you ass' to all of my paragraphs as you did to me previously) you make statements like they're the end-all be-all. also, people who's work is fucking fantastic don't need to go to school. others (myself included) should go to the best school that they can beg borrow or steal to go to. as for the remaining people i would say that it is a waste for them to go to college except for the fact that because so many people go to college you need a degree to do anything other than clean offices, drive taxis, wait tables or strip- and many of those people are doing it on the way to college. there's my vent i'm sure you have a lot to say about it i will never refer directly to your posts again

who's = whose

I find my self struggling to post this. On one hand I want to pay no regard to you, proving some sort of maturity, satisfied in the fact that the bullshit of your message stands for itself. On the other hand I feel the need to respond to you with the hopes of demonstrating that your passive aggressive behavior towards me has been evident since you have been posting. Regardless of what i prove or don't prove, my ego wins out.... Last week when you got into me about the mail art thing and the numerous other shit, I was on the defensive from you. I am sorry for you, but you WERE being an ass across the board, and I do feel your posts are directed at me because you specify by name, if not by an obvious reference. Come on, who are you kidding? I don't blindly name call like a 10 year old might, but rather I call when I feel I am somehow being threatened unnecessarily or dealt a blow of unwarranted unfriendly sarcasm such was the case in post last week about high school and such. I can be rather sensitive so I can often see in one's words their feelings towards me and what I say. I can be perceptive heather. How can you say there wasn't an element of aggression in any of your responses to me past and present? No you weren't the only one to oppose what I saying, perhaps I know nate a little better and have a better track record with him. He has never outright insulted me or been negatively sarcastic to anything I have ever said. You seem to have an air like you want to pick a fight, with me and me alone. "fuck you you motherfucker whiny poser" No, not correct, invalid response. I am neither whiny, nor a poser as so the modern definitions go. I never make assumptions about anything i do not know or think i know, I am happy to stand corrected and everything I say or do is genuine. (Although i can see where you interpreted my assumption about that class you are, but to call me on such a general statement further reiterates your aggression towards me.....if you really thought i was making a concrete statement about YOUR class, sorry to mislead but I certainly wasn't nor do i have the audacity to do so, I have never made direct assumptions about the lives anyone leads around here, not serious ones anyway, EVER!) I have been nothing but honest around here....Lucy once called me a whiny white boy or something to that effect, and I would hardly say that as I have never asked anything of this society other than a fair shot. I have never seriously blamed anyone but myself for the position I am in in my life. I resent being called that and i extend big one finger salute to you for that misconception. Clarification. I go to school because my work can be fantastic, but I have to gain knowledge of that which can not be readily and efficiently attained via a book (hands on experimentation is just too expensive to a certain point). Despite what i may have said in the past, I firmly believe photography is 70% craft and 30% art. Somethings can't be taught in a book. A self-taught chemist is a rarity and photography can be very technical. Anyone and everyone should have access to school, close to free of charge. Enlightenment should not be available to just those with good credit or available funds or a 357. Most all great artists/craftspeople had some sort of training either in an apprenticeships or school. To think: "People whose work is fucking fantastic don't need to go to school." is severely fucked and limited. Also, I like to think I see the world as more of a medium shade of gray, meaning I question anything and everything regardless of the source, so where I make these vast and end all assumptions I stand confused and curious. My biggest pet peav is someone who only sees in black and white. I would like to think I have demonstrated this in being able to stand corrected around here from time to time.... Finally, as much as I have had some enjoyable conversations, this will be my last post. This place is great and all but frankly heather you are an ass, you make me afraid to say anything regardless of the nature. The literal headache you have given these last two weeks is not worth the bullshit you like to make it out to be. Perhaps I am too honest and sensitive to deal with someone like you. Somehow this forum has distorted the way we might have engaged each other had we been in some sort of physical social setting. Perhaps this place is not real and you all are computer-generated responses, and here's where I fail the test...seriously. I have never had engagements like I have with a few around here in real life. People just don't act that way. With the exception of a few of you, you are great people, to those who have my email, please feel to drop me a line. To the rest of: you are childish, immature, know it all brats.................Don't kid yourself to think I will storm out the door only to start posting when someone mentions "hey I miss waffles, hey I miss Patrick...lalalalalal" I am sure i may lurk to see what you idiots are saying, but that would be an exception. Basically, I am denying myself the occasional grief and you the pleasure of my company (and I sure that can be subjective)...........You have really made this place a drag for me heather and I would like to think for other as well because you always seem bent on getting me started. Perhaps you are someone else like swine, since he stopped posting, and you have taken on the facade to get me away. Perhaps I am paranoid. I have noticed a lot of folks have stopped posting, perhaps this is my time to die, I dunno, it just feels right, perhaps my frequency has been too dominating, which baffles me as to how that would prevent other conversation, but then again I certainly don't understand everything. Either way, I am gone.......... *agatha I still look forward to the art mail project, if not just do something creative to my pictures, put them up in the bathroom wall at the local rest stop or something. fondly (respectively) patrick

heather. you bitch.

I'll put it simply here: I got mine. Nobody gave it to me. I busted my own ass and now I'm reaping the benefits. You want some? Go get your own, bitch. You can't have mine. I paid my own way and if that bothers you, tough shit. Sound harsh? It is. Life is harsh. Rewards come to those who have the vision and the resourcefulness to achieve it. Now, if you'll excuse me, I think I'll call nate up and complain about how oppressed we rich white guys are.

Goddamn. This sucks.

we're working on getting ours. from you. and we want more, just like you. if you don't like that, give me all your money and shut the fuck up.

i apologize for an abundance of misunderstandings and some that were not

wanna play a little game? match up the numbered response to the lettered poster. _____________________________________ 1) stop trying to flatter yourself. 2) start doubling your prozac intake. 3) what are you sorry for? 4) get a job. 5) thanks for last night. _____________________________________ a) patrick b) heather c) cyst d) simon e) your mom _____________________________________ know what the winner gets? not a god damn thing. at least not from me. i'm keepin' mine.

and further more http://www.freeholes.com/joke/sound/nogood.wav

quit frontin' J. you're not porcine and your link doesn't work for shit.

hey, what's the smug young rich techie viewpoint on school-voucher programs? are you guys for it because it saves your fellow good-gene wealth-mongers money or against it because schooling is an unnecessary social program and no public funds should be directed that way at all? just wondering. I've thought about getting a job, but all you well-employed types seem so goddamn cranky and resentful. I think I'll just let you guys fuel the economy and I'll just tell you how grateful I am for all the affluence you've helped create. thanks a lot! I especially like the wide variety of hummous in the stores and the long drapy skirts that are in style this fall. they couldn't have done it without you.

well then. what's a school voucher?

Quit frontin J???What does that mean?What did I do?My answer for your quiz Swine is 5-e.I checked out here at 2p.m.,yesterday,I get up and the shit hit the fan.Every bad habit I have,I,m taxed for,when you get gas your taxed,I smoke,I,m taxed,I work,I,m taxed.The taxpayers paid for Bank One Ballpark out here yet most people can,t afford to go there,$8.00 for a fucking beer,but our transit system sucks.I just wish I had some say in where my taxes went.I figure as much as I pay,there shouldn,t be kids going hungry and homeless,with no health care.My dad started a hot lunch program at a 2 room school house in W.V.,those kids were hungry.Where was I going here?I do believe in giving to charity,s as long as I can pick them.

Simon, I will get that book after work... I think I'll "call bullshit" on every statistic I don't like. (I have no problem with citing references...it's your attitude I thought was just a smidge arrogant.) Nate: Um... did you read Cyst's and my arguments at all? you seem to have completely ignored them and restated your own. It is generally considered good form to reply to people's points. If you do not, you will have difficulty being taken seriously. As for the rest of you, I will get back to you later, but I do have some points on welfare mothers vs. corporate welfare... once again, I need to go pick up the book so that I can give you sources.

did you read my points? i thought i was addressing yours. i say minimum wage increase effects all factors of the economy. you say it does not. i say it does, because: 1. no more money will be printed. 2. the rich aren't going to swallow the difference. it's called inflation when people make more money but the gross product doesn't change. i don't think this has been addressed other than you and cyst saying "i don't think this would happen"

God Damn!!!!!!!!!! I don't look at the boards for 2 days and...BANG!!!! some inconsiderate bitch scares away an icon of sorabji. How dare she???? I don't have Waffles/Patrick's email and would appreciate it if someone would thank him for me for all of the enjoyable hours of being in his company. He can be a breath of fresh air on a bad day or even a good day for that matter.

i sent him that. he'll be back.

thewaffleboy@hotmail.com

california. chock full o' chuckleheads.

I don't remember saying that prices would go up. in fact, I think I said that they would in fact go up, especially on labor-intensive items. however, I also said that they would not rise commensurately to the rise in the minimum wage. minimum wage doubles, not all prices double. a guess: minimum wage doubles, and the retail price of a t-shirt at wal-mart goes up 25 percent. PLUS, prices in mexico would barely be affected, if at all. so wage laborers could save some of their extra income then live it up in mexico. (I think of a lot of things in terms of "how would this affect people's lengthy stays in mexico?") I'd also like to point out that I did say that I thought that a doubling of the minimum wage WOULD in fact affect the economy as a whole, as people would buy fewer unnecessary items, such as decaf espresso drinks, and I predicted that some workers would be laid off. come on, nate. I'm not dumb.

I missed a "not" in my first sentence. I want to explain to agatha about school voucher programs. in a while. because I hate that shit and I want to tell you all why.

Oh, I don't have those stats for you until after work, but, Nate, you did not respond. Cyst and I said that doubling minimum wage would not double prices. It would raise them, but not double them. You have not responded to this. Oh, and let Heather be... We all know Patrick is easily offended.

here's a link to what appears to be a community college student's essay about school voucher programs. clearly the product of a failing public school system, the writer starts her explanation with the sentence, "School vouchers is a trend that has many people in an uproar." but she does address some of my main arguments against such programs. http://pluto.njcc.com/~crissy/EdTopics/contentvouch.html

Tisk,tisk,tisk and so the deterioration begins

Thanks Nate and J. I hope you are right.

congratulations, you rich, white fuckers. you managed to push through a fucked up tax reform initiative under the guise of an auto licensing fee cut. here, here, and here i think a tire slashing rampage is in order.

make sure to kill off all of the salmon, while you're at it. who needs em, anyhow.

look! agatha woke up!

the fees before were sort of excessive, though, weren't they? hundreds of dollars to register a car? the old system would have been cooler if it had taxed cars not on their blue-book value but how many miles to the gallon they got.

we had no state income tax before. perhaps we will soon. where else will the funds come from? this bill is more than cheap tabs. it also mandates a public vote on all future tax increases and spending increases. this is mainly what we elect our legislators to do. if a hundred or so people can't get their shit together and get stuff done, imagine what a million people can screw up. we might as well get rid of the legislature altogether. on the bright side, if this is as fucked up as is projected by it's opponents, we can maybe get an initiative to repeal this initiative in a couple years.

its not it's

move to california.

I use to work on Columbia St. in downtown Olympia, right above Budd Bay Cafe` with all the lawyers and attornies, and one Isp server, somewhat near Farmer's Market. Olympia is my college destination, Evergreen. It was either that or Western, both have their perks. Evergreen has Olympia, Western has Vancouver, but I love Olympia and know almost everything about it. I once put in an application at the Kinkos in Black Lake Mall and only went to the one in Lacey once or twice. I had just recently been to the mall at black lake to find out they have so much more shit in there now: Hot topic, Miller's Outpost, and Victoria's Secret. Everything in the Goodwill in Olympia is 4.99, no matter what the hell it is. Halloween I was in Lacey, saw the House on Haunted Hill at the cinema, and it was good, but they stole some of the effects of the spirits from Jacob's Ladder, where they shake back and forth, really freaky looking but it tottally intrigued me.

no more to say here?

i don't have that good of luck at the goodwill, but then again i'm always trying to find furniture and things like that.