| THIS IS A READ-ONLY ARCHIVE FROM THE SORABJI.COM MESSAGE BOARDS (1995-2016). |
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What motivates you to want to make her over? To suggest that you will all go out and have her hair/make-up done and go shopping for new tops? Of course it isn't because you think she's unattractive or entirely lacking in style; but what makes you think that she won't take it the wrong way? You know she's been depressed but you have no idea that she's been struggling with body image again although you know it was a problem in the past. She knows she's beautiful, but just hasn't been feeling that way. She knows her problems have little, if anything, to do with how she looks, but rather are the sum total of lots of anxieties. Of course, you just thought it would be fun. She was sort of ambivalent at the suggestion but now she's confused and angry. None of her other friends did this even as they also enjoyed the world of hair/makeup/clothing. She knows she shouldn't obsess and overanalyze, but still she wonders, who or what is it that they see? What's missing? What's wrong? And now, what is she ignoring by wasting all introspective energy on something so external? Why can't her heart feel what her mind knows? She doesn't need reassurance. She needs to know why she keeps going back and fighting battles already won. I'm tired of this shit. |
Hypothetically, of course. |
With one "friend" S (whom I try not to talk to now) she wanted me to wax her facial hair (and there is a lot of it, you feel bad for her), but wax didn't work, and Nad's didn't work, and we ended up just having her shave her beard, mustache,etc. Then we did her hair and make-up. She borrowed some of my clothes (how she fit into them is beyond me). Her ego went through the roof. She spent the whole night flashing guys (including Kebron, who didn't notice 6 times in a row on purpose hehehe)and was basically out of control with her badness. My other friend P didn't really want much done. We pulled her hair up, and gave a little advice on foundations to skin type, and she looked really nice but really simple. It was just like her and she was happy and comfortable like that. She just sat back and had fun that night. I would like to say that the whole night was fun, a total blast, but it wasn't. See S got to be so full of herself that she started lecturing P about how she needs to learn how to dance while they were out on the dancefloor, basically embarassing the shit out of P. I mean, who cares? We were there to have fun, there were only like 10 other people in the club, it wasn't about trying to be the hottest looking best dancer whatever, it was about cutting loose and having fun. Who cares how P dances? S was telling her that P dances like it was cool when P was in high school and she was making a fool of herself. It was so bad that this other couple on the dancefloor who felt bad for her, and pulled her aside to dance with them. Letting her know that it's OK if she isn't dancing like she's Britney Spears on crack. So it started off well, where we had fun getting ready, but then it went to pot when ego's got to the point of being insulting. I have never had another girls night out like that again. Now P stays at home til it is time to go and just wears jeans (which is fine, since she was made so uncomfortable) and J does up her hair but wears shorts and a t-shirt, and I go all decked out. We have fun then. Though P hasn't danced with any of us since, even when S is not there. It all would have been fine if S would have kept her new found ego under control and not tried so hard to get others to be like her. |
the first paragraph describes characteristics i value in a woman. no nonsense. some hypothetical man is lucky. |
some chicks think comfy casual chicks are their Barbie dolls. Like we're all 12 years old. some hypothetical man is very lucky |
if you dont, like, completely make yourself over and stuff, you'll like, be an ugly waitress forever! DOLL THE FUCK UP AND SQUEEZE ME OUT SOME CHILLUNS! |
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She will always prefer sipping tea in her pajama pants and reading Mojo backwards to dancing and shopping. That will never change. Her friends mean no harm. One of them confronted her about her sudden withdrawal from the world. They just want her to have fun and enjoy the things they do, perhaps make her feel included after her month of self-imposed separation. They all share a similar worldview and have the same occupation. She understands the need to remove one’s head from the asshole of the academic monster and enjoy the world of pretty things (like green tea and Ween CDs). She shaves her legs, waxes her eyebrows, and occasionally dyes her hair. She’s patiently waiting to stumble across the perfect lipstick, one that will match both her skin tone and disposition. After years of hiding her body behind men’s sweaters and baggy shapeless jeans, she’s found a relatively comfortable place between Victoria’s Secret and Express. Thus she prefers women who are comfortably (and moderately) pro-chick-ethos to those who are militantly anti-chick-ethos, who will accompany her on shopping excursions without any guilt trips about buying into patriarchal imposed standards or sweatshop labor. She just doesn’t want to be anyone’s project. She dreads that kind of attention. She’s still curious about their motives, a bit confused, but no longer angry. Her boyfriend was rather dismayed at the suggestion exclaiming, “What! Why? No, you look beautiful as you are.” But he also said, hypothetically, if she agreed to do it, it should be for a weekend he is visiting. P.S. I love you guys. |
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But I hear you, Kazu. If someone put me on the spot and offered to give me a pity makeover, I would feel: a) surprised b) embarrassed c) angry d) self-righteous e) embarrassed (again) in that order. By the way, did you watch Dr. Zhivago on PBS last night? It was hellaciously depressing, but not in a good satisfying way, and not for the reasons I felt the movie wanted it to be. The movie was pushing you to cry for Zhivago's and Lara's stupid doomed love, but I was crying for Zhivago's wife and children, and for the fact that he wasn't the good man his father had wanted him to be after all. Bah. |
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i had a friend in hawaii, a girl i went to grad school with, she was from los altos hills. she pretty much held my hand and dragged me from hippie surfer girl to chic woman. i resisted at first, but then realized how right she was and how much fun i was having. new shoes were first. i lived in birks and flip flops. then came a hair cut. then eyebrow plucking and eyebrown pencil, and makeup. then came clothes. of course, the inner hippie surfer girl never goes away. she's the same and will always have her indulgences. but on the outside, i dress a whole lot better (even though i'm a basement bargain shopper forever) and generally take care in my appearance. sometimes i feel like i spend too much time grooming (plucking, painting, buffing, shaving, etc.) but the results to me are worth it. |
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I think she looks awesome without makeup and her hair done and all that. But she also looks stunning when she gets "dolled" up. Of course, eri is pretty no matter what. She has trouble seeing that, and sometimes thinks it takes hair gell and makeup to make her look pretty. And there are some women out there that all the makeup and hair gell in the world could not help, like "S" (I am sure eri is referring to the SA "S" and not the KC "S"). Plastic surgery maybe, but not make up and hair gell. Most women have internal beauty that will outshine the external. Not this chick. What I am trying to say is this: You can take a 1974 Ford Pinto, paint it and put a fake blower on the hood and chrome tips on the exhaust, and it will look hot. But sit behind the wheel and fire it up, and it's true self becomes evident. Without anything under the hood, then it just makes good yard art. |
When Sem first saw a picture of Shannon he asked, "Is she always that glamorous?" And it sounded strange, because I'm just used to her being Shannon and forget after a while how much she loves all of it. Of course, not as much as pop culture, literature, film, and politics. I still have no idea what to do with make up so I don't bother. I like hair products a lot. But not matter what I can't spend more than 7 minutes in front of the mirror every morning or I get bored and frustrated. My greatest fashion find this past year was the Strong Bad teeshirt. I thought it would just be funny but it fit perfectly. And the ladybug socks with the red pompoms on the ankles. I did find some perfect fitting bras recently. It was worth the time and money spent because it did wonders for my self esteem...which reminds me, one of the reasons offered for the makeover was, "but you have those great boobs to show off." |
and she's smokin' in that Strong Bad t-shirt. |
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spider, bask in the glory that is homestar runner ! go to the main page and click 'First Time Here'. then characters. bask!! |
I can't get enough. Today's was fun-nee. Carla Lewis! Hee hee |
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This was the PBS version last night, not the Julie Christie/Omar Shariff version, which I'm sorta curious to see now, just to see if I feel the same way about it. The PBS version, in the words of Russell Baker, "emphasised the carnal nature of the story," and, boy, did it. |
you can be hot getting dolled up. you can be hot in your sweats. neither is a determining factor but making an effort to proclaim one or the other as your plan of action is no fun either. you're friend was just being nice kazoo. silly. but nice. you really shouldn't dwell on it that much, as its just not that important. you know what i like. i like it when my wife goes and gets her nails done every other month or so. you know why? because she comes back feeling relaxed (they have this funky chair massage thingy that she sits in and gets her feet soaked as well) and when she's relaxed and content i get some. a little make up is nice. not a lot. a little. of course no make up is fine too. but don't try too hard to make yourself sound so frumpy. tea, yoga sweats and a book are nice. sunday morning nice. you bet. sexy too. if a bra can make you feel good, maybe a really smokin dress, with semillamadingdong in a nice suit and a night out in places you've never been could make you feel really damn great. nico has a couple of hot evening gowns she got in hong kong. cheap. long silk gowns. with a fantastic black sweater shaw, heels, hair up so you can see her wonderful hot neck, and maybe vintage earings i gave her....HOLY MAMA look out. I put on my cheap suit. It may be cheap, but it looks pretty damn fly and of course i had her with me when i bought it because shes the only one im wanting to please in it. taking my arm, valet parking the car, pretending we're Mr and Mrs. Howell. ya dig? have you ever done that? on a special occasion, buy and wear something really damn hot, dolled up, hair, perfume and gone out to a super fucking nice restaurant, appertif's, bottle of wine, extravagent deserts, jazz bar afterwards etc? anniv.'s, BD, and other like occassions? you know what the best part about those kinds of nights? pulling the heels off, peeling the hose off, having my gucci belt unbuckled by someone other than me, and smelling hours old perfume on her neck that i ordinarily would not smell because not only does she wear it sporadically, her hair isnt usually up in a complex knot either. you know what im saying? like sarah, my girl is still the no makeup wearing long-hair, feminist, vegetarian earth girl at heart. she's still very organic but as life demanded more of her, she has had more money she has learned to treat herself and there's no compromise involved. some people can be really silly about it, but chances are they are silly in general, such as your friend shannon might be. its not uncool to take care of yourself and be 'proper' sometimes |
Everybody to the Limit! |
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have since my mom stopped dressing me. from both my parents and my friends, occasionally strangers. i'm sorry if i don't like being looked/stared at in public. i just don't. a little story about my friend here at work: her boyfriend bought her a bag that sells for like $500. she found out that he got it from a store where his friend works and that he got a major discount. she refused to accept it because he got such a discount. she told us this story of her own happy accord. i will *never* understand. |
missed the point. It had nothing to do with my friends intentions; I thought I made that clear. And Shannon is not silly about anything. It's the other two who are and it doesn't matter anyway, because that wasn't the point. And I wasn't trying to make myself sound frumpy, I was just indicating that clubbing and shopping will never bring me as much pleasure as sitting around my house reading will. Did you catch the part about form fitting clothing and shopping at Express? And yes, Sem and I do get dressed up and go out. Jesus Christ. "i'm sorry if i don't like being looked/stared at in public. i just don't." Welcome to my world. They still stare probably because I don't wear baggy clothing anymore. Some of them smile and wave. That's nice. I always smile back. |
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I got the same take from it, actually. I was expecting this great romance and felt sorry for the wife and kids cuz he wasn't half the man I expected. I was really dissapointed when I saw the movie. "i'm sorry if i don't like being looked/stared at in public. i just don't." I have to admit I am the exact opposite. Here in Texas I get TONS of attention, and I eat it up, maybe secretly, but I eat it up. I only dress up when I am going out, though and sometimes not even then. I only wear make-up if I am going somewhere with friends, or out with Spunky or something like that. The rest of the time my hair is in a ponytail, no make-up, and sweats shorts are the typical clothes. That's how most of my friends see me, too. A party at my house? No make-up, and wearing sweats. This is a big change for me, though. I grew up being told how ugly I was, how worthless I was, etc. So when I was old enough to buy my own clothes I did, and I designed, and I wouldn't go anywhere (not even to the gas station to pick up a pack of smokes or to help my Dad at the feed store) without at least 2 hours in front of the mirror on hair, and make-up and all of that. I was too insecure. Felt ugly. I know how to do all of the hair and make-up and all of that. It's ingrained into my subconscious, but anymore, if it takes me more than 15 minutes to do hair and make-up, it is a bad bad day for me......I just waste my time on wardrobe instead. That can take hours now. |
Dressing up with make up and hot clothes etc etc uncool. jeans and tee shirts, sitting at home cool. deliberate. almost close minded. And yes, I interpreted it as Spider said, that your friend's intentions were making you uncomfortable, but I also derived what I did based on what you said, "whose style can best be descibed as comfortable (no makeup, jeans/pants and sweaters and shirts-form fitting but neither clingy nor tight)? She likes to look cute, but doesn't spend much time, energy, and money to do so." "She will always prefer sipping tea in her pajama pants and reading Mojo backwards to dancing and shopping." you even mentioned self imposed seperation. whats that all about? i mean if you are willing to impose such a thing on yourself, is it possible you won't let yourself feel beautiful or something....maybe.....eh, nevermind, i dont know where Im going with that. anyway if i interpreted you wrong, maybe its because of how you presented it here in this thread. and i admit i was being sassy, but i wasnt trying to insult you, so sorry if i did. |
quit yer whining. |
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interpreted as anything other than personal preferences. What I think is cool or uncool has mostly to do with confidence, among other things, and not throwing your "image" in other people's faces. None of my friends do that. I may have been unclear about the fact that I have found a place between the extremes of the hypertrendy image obsessed and the militant anti consumer where I am comfortable. And I have had lengthy discussions about this with my friends, as we are prone to analyzing everything to the absurd extreme. I thought they knew better, just as they should have known better than to think that "Big E" would be a good nickname for me. I nipped that thing in the bud, and i didn't whine, I just explained why that name bothered me. So I couldn't help but be curious. I'm over it now. "and in your first post there's a lot more involved there than just the 'idea of shopping and clubbing don't make you happy as much as they do your friends.'" which is the point, that I knew it had only to do with having fun and nothing to do with any negative opinions about me, but I couldn't help but returning to the "ugly girl in the group" complex that I have had for years and that I am supposed to be over. But it (among other things) continues to haunt me. The whole month of separation involved me being horribly depressed and taking it all out on my body, starving and fretting about being fat. And I knew it wasn't about that. I knew it was about control because I felt as though I didn't have any. That's why I went back into therapy, because I refused to get back into that cycle of self-destruction. I *know* what it's really about, yet I always come back to old insecurities and that's what the problem is. I'm not whining about anything, I'm trying very hard to make sense of all this. If you find it ridiculous, then don't talk about it. Anyway, that may not be clear but I need to see my shrink who, after telling him all of this, is going to increase my dosage which i will then interpret as another failure. |
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i have no idea what we are talking about any more. what was absurd to me was the collective idea, that I perceived to be steamrolling by the time i got to posting because most everyone was responding to the actual questions you posed of the motivations of your friends rather than the statement "She needs to know why she keeps going back and fighting battles already won." which is now clearly the crux of the matter. and that kazoo i have no idea and if i did i probably wouldnt share it because I dont want anyone's dose going up. |
I like my therapist better. I didn't mind everyone else talking about the make-over suggestion. That was bothering me a bit and I appreciated their sensitivity and kind words. And eri's stories are just treasures in and of themselves. However, no one else made me feel stupid about starting the whole thing and then give me a lecture about dressing up more and being closed minded about the whole thing. I said I preferred people who enjoy shopping, I just don't as much and was taken aback by the suggestion that I needed a make-over or that anyone who knows me well would think that I would ever want that. I figured I may or may not get back to the point, I could clarify some things, vent, or not. I didn't think anyone would try to make me over here. I figured I made that much clear. And it hurt, A LOT. But I'll get over it. "and that kazoo i have no idea and if i did i probably wouldnt share it because I dont want anyone's dose going up" what does that mean? by telling my therapist "all of this" I meant my general state and "fighting old battles" (I haven't seen him in almost a year) not this conversation or about the make-over thing. We didn't even get that far which is fine with me. I only go to him to monitor my medication which my therapist cannot do. |
i didnt generate my response after reading your very first post on this thread. it was cumulative. meaning other posts as well. to me, (after rereading this shit 20 god damn times) your first post actually doesnt have much to do with what i originally said this morning anyway. It was really a response to everything after it. ok? so, im sorry for hurting your feelings. sometimes i get frustrated with people i care about when it seems they are deliberately hurting themselves or causing themselves pain. i don't deal with people's inconsistancies and irrationalities well. People can be made to feel really good about themselves when the treat themselves and thats, really, all i want. Why I couldnt widdle my words down to just that, i dunno, but thats what I wish for. and i didnt make a distinction between your shrink, therapist whatever. where ever your doses come from. i meant that i didnt want to contribute anymore to the problem. thats what i meant by that last statement. ok? again, im sorry for hurting your feelings, it wasnt my intention at all. |
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I know what it's like to feel really good; it's just hard for me to get there. And I am doing what I need to do. I didn't post about all of this when things were really bad because I wasn't ready for any reactions be they positive or negative. At this point I'm still depressed, but the problem is becoming clearer. "i meant that i didnt want to contribute anymore to the problem." You couldn't possibly. I'm serious. These kinds of conversations, even as frustrating as they can be with all their misunderstandings and hurt feelings, are actually indicative of improvement on my part and good for me in the long run. The problem is when I don't care and can't feel. So, while exercising a certain amount of discretion, and as long as we can talk like this I appreciate the honesty. |
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Tonight I'm going to the theatre with some friends. I'm wearing a black top, pink-red-purple-maroon striped knee length skirt, tights, and my knee high boots. These boots are three inch tall platforms, but they don't scream LOOK AT ME I'M HUGE PLATFORM BOOTS and will be appropriate for atlanta's theatre crowd. I can be hip when I want to be. |
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I hadn't been there before. We saw Urinetown, which was pretty good. |
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